Andy Y Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't understand "Conversations" though. Are they like PMs? Basically yes Steve, it starts off as a PM but then any subsequent replies are all linked to the original message forming a conversation. In effect it's a private topic with the same functionality as forum posting. Very useful and a massive improvement on the previous disjointed system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Basically yes Steve, it starts off as a PM but then any subsequent replies are all linked to the original message forming a conversation. In effect it's a private topic with the same functionality as forum posting. Very useful and a massive improvement on the previous disjointed system. Thanks Andy! Quick service here. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geeee Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have been using the new site for a few days now and I have found it very interesting learning how to use the new layout and copying over my old layout thread. Now I am used to it I am bored, can we do it all again? Seriously though I would like to say a big thank you to Andy Y and his team for keeping the site moving forward. Some People will always be against change and new things take time to get used to. For those who are maybe a little over critical I would say step back and think about the time and effort Andy Y would have had to put into this and then ask themselves if they would have been prepared to spend so much of their own time to do the same. The admin team are obviously dedicated to keep this site in order and they are not going to do anything that could be detrimental to theirs and our enjoyment of this great hobby. The next time I am at an exhibition that RMweb attend I will have to pluck up the courage to say hello and thanks. Now to my own comments on the new layout;) I like the new clean look but I am unsure of the new Layout Blog system. I liked the interactive way that the other forums easily develop a discussion and I need to get used to the "diary" like way of the Blog. I am not sure how interactive the "Comments" section can be and how the blog will flow ( although my old layout thread only seemed to get comments from new members anyway so maybe this interaction won't be a problem ). I do like the way you can see exactly who has visited your Blog, is it possible to see how long they spent "reading" it?? Cheers John Geeee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I've been looking through the various WorkBench threads and two things struck me. Firstly, very few of these threads have got follow-up responses. Maybe it's too early or members are still finding their way around? Secondly, the Avatars are not displayed when replying or responding in these WB threads. Is this normal practice now? Larry G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easterner Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's inevitable that everything takes some time to bed down, both technically and in terms of the way we all use this new format. I appreciate the work that's gone into it, and the thought, and I do think the look and feel are good. Using the site is pretty intuitive, in my view, and I'm sure it will become as much second nature as the old site did. A cautious welcome, too, to the whole idea of the blogs - I can see some exciting possibilities there, though I think it will depend very much how people use them. Not so sure about the galleries, but that's partly because lots and lots of images, without the discussion of them by the poster or by others, doesn't really do it for me. Perhaps others will find it useful. I wonder whether in the multiplicity of formats (blog; thread; gallery) some content is going to be overlooked...again, we'll see. One thing I miss already is the "General" forum area. Yes, it had its pointless discussions, its lurking trolls, and its lazy denizens who couldn't be bothered to find the right area for their thread, so I can see the reasons for getting rid of it. But it was the area where the forum itself was traditionally discussed, which gave everybody a kind of ownership, and really built up the community; it was also the place where the philosophy, culture, history, future of our hobby was talked about. I reallyt think we need a place for all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Larry - what is shown when responding to the blog area is one's photo, and not one's avatar. (These can be made the same if you want.) Check out your profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 WDIFB. That was a new one on me, but I think managed to de-cipher it. If I've translated correctly, I think the answer is "because you care"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 That was a new one on me, but I think managed to de-cipher it. If I've translated correctly, I think the answer is "because you care"! We should all be darned glad that he does! Actually, Steve K, your post is significant because it is the first on this contentious thread in more than 12 hours. Is this the first sign of peace finally breaking out? I for one certainly hope so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim's Way Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Seriously though I would like to say a big thank you to Andy Y and his team for keeping the site moving forward. Some People will always be against change and new things take time to get used to. For those who are maybe a little over critical I would say step back and think about the time and effort Andy Y would have had to put into this and then ask themselves if they would have been prepared to spend so much of their own time to do the same. The admin team are obviously dedicated to keep this site in order and they are not going to do anything that could be detrimental to theirs and our enjoyment of this great hobby. For me this post (not picking out the author of it in particular) sums up quite well the problem in this particular thread. Firstly to say that everybody recognises the hard work and effort put in by Andy and the Admin and Mods and I very much welcome Andy's post yesterday afternoon in this thread explaining the technical problems which rather forced his hand into developing the new forum. It helps explain the technical need for change. However in this thread we were asked for our first reactions and our opinions. Many members have given them, positive and negative. Unfortunately in this thread those who said they didn't like the layout and format changes of the forum have been attacked for being against change, putting up barriers and reminded to be grateful of those that put in the hard work. It is not constructive for people to keep saying these things because it prevents any debate about how to improve what we have now so that more people like it. The poll rating for 'yes i like it' has gone down from 56% to 45%. Yes I understand people want to support Andy and the team for all their hard work, but the results of change are not always welcomed or an improvement on before. And shouting down people who give their honest opinion because it might be contain some negative points won't help anyone. I think the biggest improvement for now would be to give people the choice between a layout blog or thread and ensure that it is clearly labelled so that all members have a rough idea of the setting and scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Indeed, perhaps Andy ought to have asked for "considered opinions, once one has become familiar with the site". I have read more helpful corrections and suggestions of work-arounds than attacks, or shouting-downs, tbh. Suggestions would perhaps be better (certainly clearer) if given as dry statement of fact without the (sometimes over-) emotive language which does little except to inflame. I agree it would please most people to allow either thread or blog format, but the downside is it would become a mess, with content spread everywhere. This IMO was a major downside of the old forum, where WB content could be in any of many subforums. Those alternative subforums are still present as it happens, which I dare say you could continue to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think the biggest improvement for now would be to give people the choice between a layout blog or thread and ensure that it is clearly labelled so that all members have a rough idea of the setting and scene. I'm not convinced that's the answer. We're still less than a week into the new format and for some people it will take time to get their heads around it - but it will come! Given the choice many will create threads over a blog because there's no learning curve to it, so of course it's bit of a no-brainer. However, there are a lot of blogs now up and running, and I bet there will be a glut material transferred over from the old site once the server issue is stabilised. If threads are then opened to include layouts, what incentive is there to even visit that part of the site by those who choose not to embrace the blogs? You're left with a two-tier system where a whole lot of good modelling will be missed. Whether someone reads my blogs or not - I don't really care (well maybe I do just a little bit... ) but I see this dovetailing with the principle behind not separating scales & gauges, steam or D&E etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 45156 Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi there y'all. Just started to get to grips with the new site, and firstly, it is clearly an improvement on the old site, in a big way, and all credit to Andy and the others for actually getting it up and running. It's like anything new - it's going to take a lot of getting used to, but no more so than (say) changing to a new operating system, or the workings of a new web browser. It's change - in this case, it's progress, but as I visit the site mainly at work in my breaks, it's going to take time for me to find my way about. So let's keep it constructive - the old site was no longer viable due to the massive increase in membership - I was actually an early member of the very first site when membership was about 200 - and this is certainly light years away from what we started with. I doubt that anybody (not even Andy in his wildest dreams or nightmares) was prepared for the size of the forum now, and its high place in the realms of internet railway modelling sites, and the changes have had to come for that reason alone. Good luck to all who sail in her Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 Given the choice many will create threads over a blog because there's no learning curve to it, so of course it's bit of a no-brainer. Hi Adrian, The assumption there is that blogs are better than topics. But why? I haven't seen a convincing explanation. Certainly some things are better -- the "that's nice" comments don't interrupt the flow. But that seems to be a very minor gain when set against the several downsides -- the weird effect of trying to read a blog in reverse chronological order; the difficulty for others in making a substantive input to the subject matter; the problem of knowing when it's been updated; the difficulty of even finding it in the first place. I'm not at all convinced that the blog format is better. Others may feel the same way. So describing their valid choice of making a topic instead as a "no-brainer" isn't very friendly. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hello all, I'm just getting to grips with the new site (must have been one of the 15% as I had to re-register, not that it was a big problem though). It'll take some time to get used to, but I think its an improvement overall. I think the look of the new site isn't as nice as the old one (but as my colleagues point out, I have no idea of good design!) but the functionality is much better. Andy (and mods/others), thanks for spending alot of your free time allowing us all to have such a great free site to enjoy. I can imagine its a major pain at times, but it is much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm not really qualified to criticise, having only spent a couple of hours on the new site so far, but even so... while this site is beatifully designed and laid out, there doesn't seem quite so much "stuff" visible at one time. Actually, that wasn't very clear, so I'll try again - maybe it's all the bells and whistles (which are many and lovely, I admit), but there seems to be a lot more scrolling up and down to see actual content. Of course, in a day or two, I may well discover a setting for the default font display size which will sort this out, at which point my grovelling apology will be forthcoming. Then again, this is the "first impressions" thread... One thing I do miss, which I hadn't even noticed until it went, is the ability to see who started a thread when viewing in "view new content" mode. You can see the thread title, and who has posted last, but not who kicked it off. Believe me, that can often have a bearing on whether I decide to join in the chat! A lot of what concerns me is purely a result of the very new-ness of what I see, and so I will not pass judgement on anything much else for a while yet, and even then, I promise to try to be constructive! No doubt, I'll soon discover the benefits of having at least 4 ways to reply to a given post (having already delved, with some success, into "multi-quote" - it's amazing what you can find if you poke around!), and I'll find this post "tagging" thing that everyone's on about. Anyway, if that all sounds a bit negative, it shouldn't. It's all very new at the moment, with so much stuff going on that I can't see the wood for the trees, and I'm barely finding my feet just now. Such a wholesale change was bound to be a bit daunting to start with, but I daresay that the old RMweb will seem very old hat by Christmas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm not really qualified to criticise, having only spent a couple of hours on the new site so far, but even so... while this site is beatifully designed and laid out, there doesn't seem quite so much "stuff" visible at one time. Actually, that wasn't very clear, so I'll try again - maybe it's all the bells and whistles (which are many and lovely, I admit), but there seems to be a lot more scrolling up and down to see actual content. Of course, in a day or two, I may well discover a setting for the default font display size which will sort this out, at which point my grovelling apology will be forthcoming. Then again, this is the "first impressions" thread... One thing I do miss, which I hadn't even noticed until it went, is the ability to see who started a thread when viewing in "view new content" mode. You can see the thread title, and who has posted last, but not who kicked it off. Believe me, that can often have a bearing on whether I decide to join in the chat! A lot of what concerns me is purely a result of the very new-ness of what I see, and so I will not pass judgement on anything much else for a while yet, and even then, I promise to try to be constructive! No doubt, I'll soon discover the benefits of having at least 4 ways to reply to a given post (having already delved, with some success, into "multi-quote" - it's amazing what you can find if you poke around!), and I'll find this post "tagging" thing that everyone's on about. Anyway, if that all sounds a bit negative, it shouldn't. It's all very new at the moment, with so much stuff going on that I can't see the wood for the trees, and I'm barely finding my feet just now. Such a wholesale change was bound to be a bit daunting to start with, but I daresay that the old RMweb will seem very old hat by Christmas. In view new content mode I can see who started a thread - e.g. this one was Andy Y. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 That's interesting, David - are you viewing new content in "list" or forum" style? I chose "list" (as per the old forum), and I definitely cannot see who started a thread in this mode. I can when I search the threads via the main index, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 The assumption there is that blogs are better than topics. But why? I haven't seen a convincing explanation. Certainly some things are better -- the "that's nice" comments don't interrupt the flow. From my POV that's a big advantage of blogs over topics, not a minor one; work can be presented in the way the author intended without the reader having to wade through a pile of (often interesting) side issues and/or chaff. But that seems to be a very minor gain when set against the several downsides -- the weird effect of trying to read a blog in reverse chronological order; the difficulty for others in making a substantive input to the subject matter; the problem of knowing when it's been updated; the difficulty of even finding it in the first place. With a proper indexing panel the blog needn't be read in reverse order - indeed I'd hope, once I can retrieve some projects from the old forum, that my workbench blog won't be read chronologically because it's not going to be in a diary format (though you can't tell just yet) . Others may want their blog read chronologically - great! The West Mersea blog fits into that catagory, however it still makes a lot of sense to me to have the latest entry to the fore rather than scrolling down to it. Then again, do we know for certain whether or not the software can flip blogs so the reader (or would it be at the discretion of the author?) could reverse the order of entries? I'm not sure why you think commentators can't have substantive input into a blog. If it really is important/interesting/relevant to the blog, the author can create a new blog post and expound upon it. However, if the commentator believes his input is substantive, but the blog author sees it as a diversion - even an interesting one, then they can simply dialogue in the comments section without sending the blog as a whole off down a tangent - it's the author's decision, not Joe Bloggs' (ah! I've been waiting to say that! ). Is there a problem with knowing when a blog is updated? Click 'New Content' then 'Layout & Workbench Topics/Blogs' in the grey band above the dark blue one. Do we know if new comments have been posted to a blog? Yes - click Layouts & Workbench Topics/Blogs in the main tabs and you can see a last update - which includes comments. Currently we can't see which post that comment refers to, but as I understand it I think that's another in Andy's list of things to look into? Edit: Events are already overtaking my post. Finding a blog in the first place is no more difficult than finding a topic for the first time. Once it's located you can track it or add it to your favourites, like you can watch a thread. The advanced search option for blogs is pretty comprehensive. I'm not at all convinced that the blog format is better. Others may feel the same way. So describing their valid choice of making a topic instead as a "no-brainer" isn't very friendly. My comment wasn't made in a derogatory way. In many situations, given the choice between doing something familiar and something which requires a perceived steep learning curve - many of us, me included (but granted, not everybody), would invariably choose the easy option. That's the no-brainer - there are no second thoughts about making that decision. However, here, at this moment, we don't have the option. We have blogs, and we have folk embracing them with more being added to the number each day. At the time of writing we have 156 active blogs, with a further 64 titled but not yet started. We also have quite a number of folk unhappy about the whole blog set up, but we're still a few days - not even a week - into the new system, and things are still unfamiliar; the comfort zone has been whisked away, and people are smarting from it. Yes there are issues, but no, we don't yet know if any or all of them are fixable to everyone's satisfaction, and it would be a miracle if that were so. At this point I just don't see how the suggestion by some of having some layouts/workbenches in one area of the site and other layouts/workbenches in a different part of the site is a step forwards. Besides which, it's not me who needs convincing . If Andy does decide to go that way then I'm sure I'll be able to cope! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 From my POV that's a big advantage of blogs over topics, not a minor one; work can be presented in the way the author intended without the reader having to wade through a pile of (often interesting) side issues and/or chaff. Hi Adrian, But if that's what you want, the obvious thing is to write it up on your own web site, and then post a link on RMweb. I don't see the logic of using a community site such as this to write your stuff, and then complaining when others join in? Some of my other objections appear to be being overtaken by events. I'm just waiting to see what frequency Andy has set the RSS Fetcher running at. It's very clever Andy. :icon_thumbsup2: regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm just waiting to see what frequency Andy has set the RSS Fetcher running at. The minimum seems to be every 30 minutes but I'll have a crack at getting round that when we've moved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 That's interesting, David - are you viewing new content in "list" or forum" style? I chose "list" (as per the old forum), and I definitely cannot see who started a thread in this mode. This I find interesting. Where does one locate "List" and/or "Forum" style? If as you say "List" is like the old forum, then I'd like to have a go. Larry G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi Adrian, But if that's what you want, the obvious thing is to write it up on your own web site, and then post a link on RMweb. I don't see the logic of using a community site such as this to write your stuff, and then complaining when others join in? I didn't think I was complaining . Most of my threads on the old site went off in wild tangents and it was never a problem to me - when pressed I even stated that I was happy for people to hijack my threads. Conversely I've read an awful lot of complaints on here over the last week. Now we have blogs and I'm still happy to work within Andy's set up (his house, his rules and all that) and I just see the advantages of the blogs are greater than any disadvantages currently experienced. If he changes it all back to threads, or half threads, half blogs then it's no big deal, I'll just go with the flow. Some of my other objections appear to be being overtaken by events. Yep, mine too. . I hope that from my last post it's clear that I feel we've not given Andy enough time to really bed the new system in to iron these issues out. He's asked for suggestions, but the whinging and sulks from some quarters has been a bit OTT. ISTR there was a similar period of unease at the last regeneration, and after a week or two of tweaking we all looked around and wondered what all the fuss had been about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well I have been gently paddling in from the shallow end over the last few days to use what im used to (the forums) and gentle explore the new features (blogs etc.) and all I can say is I am now gutted I have started creating my own forum (not model railway related) in PHPBB3 and not this format - the blogs are exactly what i would have liked in my project! Well done Andy and the team and thanks for the effort put into this. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajdown Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Most of my threads on the old site went off in wild tangents and it was never a problem to me - when pressed I even stated that I was happy for people to hijack my threads. It's generally accepted in online forums that once a subject has been started, the original poster loses all control or claim to how the thread progresses. It's only within the rules of that particular forum as to how 'off topic' something can go before moderators step in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 14, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2009 This I find interesting. Where does one locate "List" and/or "Forum" style? If as you say "List" is like the old forum, then I'd like to have a go. Hi Larry, It's at the bottom of your Settings page: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core The label Search is a bit misleading at first -- the software performs a search when you ask for New/Active Content. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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