Colin parks Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Brian, The 2 HAP looks very good. I rather like the Commonwealth bogies - something out of the ordinary that makes it worth kit-building. The experiment with Kadee (spelling correctly in case Budgie reads this!) couplings on the 4 TC is interesting as you have managed to get a near-scale buck-eye to work on such tight curves. I have seen some 2 BILs fitted with unaltered couplings, but they suit this kind of unit very well, being so close to what sould be there anyway. I wonder if a very fine piece of guitar string (.009") could be used on these couplings as a dropper for the magnetic uncoupling system delveloped by that unsung genius of the hooks, Brian K.... Hang on, that's you isn't it!! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Quite right Budgie, i stand corrected. It's a fair cop guv and no mistake. Cheers, "Beekay" ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Thanks Colin, I'm more and more convinced that Bachmann will announce a 2HAP, of course sod's law dictates they might do the later versions like my one, but that's unlikely. If so, i will backdate this one to an earlier batch. Although the roof vent layouts are fairly consistent, i forgot to mention another difference, besides the earlier ones having ridge dome vents, they also had an extra pair behind the cabs. I had great fun and games working out which underframe equipment part to use, through all the options, and where they would be located. Things were complicated by the instructions quoting part numbers, but the photo image of the sprue has no mention of the part numbers! So it was with a degree of trepidation, that i posted the underframe pics, feeling sure someone would point an incorrect location ( no names mentioned ! ). As many will know, checking underframe locations on photos can be immensely difficult, since many shots are too dark to make things out, or are at a three-quarter angle. Regarding operation of the Kadees, i did toy with the idea of replacing the dropgear with finer wire, but couldn't work out how, It certainly looks better without the dropgear, although as previously mentioned, the ER EMUs did have a shrouded cable sticking out of the side? I don't envisage much uncoupling of my units, so perhaps i could put a small magnet on the end of a stick and attract the jaw manually? Rather like pulling the chain on a SR unit, or is somebody pulling my chain? :-) Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2013 http://www.rixproducts.com/6280014.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Brian, I know what you mean about the equiptment being hard to locate. There is a series of photos that might help here: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_5.html Although perHAPs you seen them before! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Urrrgh, sorry Oldddudders, but i'm not keen on that Rix uncoupler, seems awfully complicated and cumbersome? Thanks for the link though. Thanks for the SEMG link Colin, i've seen some of their other stuff before, very useful. You'd think a 2EPB and a 2HAP would have the same arrangement underneath, however the first sentence on the SEMG EPB page, says that there were variations betweens batches? The Bachmann 2EPB is definitely different to my HAP, if they do one, we can copy their's! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Brian, Pity that it didn't help too much. The one thing that the 2 HAPs trailer coach would definitely have is the toilet discharge pipes. You can safely model them under the toilet compartments! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Now i'm looking at stepboards, they're continuous on this class, apart from varying gaps below the loo window. I can't work out any regular spec, probably just made up at the whim of the repair depot. I'll play safe and copy the gap on my third batch photo. BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 IIRC the Mk.1 2-EPBs were built with the older electrical gear, like the prototype 4-CEPs. They also had the driver's door handrails split in two and were followed by more SR (Bullied) style bodies on reclaimed underframes. I think that even the earliest batch of Mk.1 2-HAPs had the '1957' pattern equipment and came after the SR (Bullied) ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Bernie, Yes the EPB and HAP classes are very complicated and confusing, some of the Bulleid style bodies came AFTER the first BR Standard Mk1 stock, followed by more Mk1 construction. I think the complexities of each class and underframe details, would justify a dedicated book on each class, ideal books for bedtime, if they don't send you off to sleep, nothing will. :-) Just for fun, i made a green 2HAP this morning, it only took five minutes. Yeah o.k., it's cheating, half a Bachmann EPB and half a Bachmann/Kernow 2H DEMU with a quick bogie change, plus it needs another first-class door transfer. At least it shows how easy it will be for Bachmann to release a 2HAP. Nice conduit on the DTC. Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Brian, That 'self-assembled' 2 HAP really does look like the shape of things to come. Just a short hop to a 4 EPB too - if Bachmann made the trailer second. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Brian, That 'self-assembled' 2 HAP really does look like the shape of things to come. Just a short hop to a 4 EPB too - if Bachmann made the trailer second. All the best, Colin Hi Colin and Brian 4 EPB, how about the Replica long underframe suburban seconds for the trailer second? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2013 Yes the EPB and HAP classes are very complicated and confusing, some of the Bulleid style bodies came AFTER the first BR Standard Mk1 stock, followed by more Mk1 construction. Interestingly, and apparently quite wrongly from a historical perspective, my Ian Allan ABC for 1961/2 defines the SR-bodied 2EPBs 5651-84 as 2-NOPs. I think these had been built on 2-NOL underframes, but with the benefit of steel bodies & EP brakes, so the appellation kinda makes sense, but I've not come across it elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Colin and Brian 4 EPB, how about the Replica long underframe suburban seconds for the trailer second? Hi Clive, Yes, you certainly could use them, with a few detail mods on the chassis of course. The question is, how well do the Bachmann and Replica bodyshells match? I'm afraid i don't have any Replica suburban bodies at the moment, perhaps someone else can show a pic of them side-by-side? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Interestingly, and apparently quite wrongly from a historical perspective, my Ian Allan ABC for 1961/2 defines the SR-bodied 2EPBs 5651-84 as 2-NOPs. I think these had been built on 2-NOL underframes, but with the benefit of steel bodies & EP brakes, so the appellation kinda makes sense, but I've not come across it elsewhere. NOPE, can't say i've heard of a NOP before, perhaps it was a semi-official or suggested title that didn't catch on? ( Cos they all kinda looked the same? ) I'm sure i read somewhere the other day, a SR-style code for one of the modern Juniper sets, what's all that about? Then again, in the age of computers, didn't the Wessex Electrics gain a 5WES tag, either officially or not? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi Brian 2NOP was used when the Bulleid style 2EPBs were first built, it is documented in quite a few books I have. I have no idea how long the code was used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Brian, Would this information be of help: First 2HAPs were 6001-42 having 1951 stock equipment, and exposed roof top electrical conduits. Next were 6043-6105 with 1957 stock equipment (phase 1) and different roof layout. Both of these batches had standard BR MK1 bogies. Third batch 6106-46 were 1957 stock equipment (phase 2) but had phase 1 style front cabs. Units 6147-73 were wholly phase 2 stock, these had another version of roof layout with coach length rainstrips. Units from 6106 had standard bogies but were changed to Commonwealth bogies to improve running. Plan E103 shows standard 1951 stock equipment underframe layout. Plan E101 shows standard 1957 stock equipment underframe layout. Both above covers EPBs and other units. Plan E104 shows 2HAP driving trailer underframe for second batch of units (brake unit differs). Plan E105 shows 2HAP driving trailer underframe for first batch of units. Plan E106 shows 2HAP driving trailer third batch. Plan E107 shows 2HAP driving trailer last batch, including phase 2 cab front. I can upload these diagrams which I drew from various information and I reference the Southern Pride underframe mouldings. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hi Paul, That's pretty much how i interpreted the various batches , so i concur. However, the changing of the bogies on 6106 upwards is new to me, i thought they were built with them? Any idea how soon this happened, presumably quite soon after construction, so successive units WERE probably built with them anyway, as events caught up? Yes please, i'd love to see your drawings, on this thread will be fine, and i'm sure others will find them interesting. It can all be rather baffling, especially correctly locating the Southern Pride underframe fittings. I might have to move one or two things? :-) Cheers, Brian, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2013 That's pretty much how i interpreted the various batches , so i concur. However, the changing of the bogies on 6106 upwards is new to me, i thought they were built with them? Any idea how soon this happened, presumably quite soon after construction, so successive units WERE probably built with them anyway, as events caught up? Does this tie-in with the change to Commonwealth bogies for the Phase 2 CEPs? ISTR these were adopted due to complaints of rough riding on the Phase 1 fleet. Moody simply states that 6106 et seq were built with Commonwealths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Gulp! Having read that list of Lyddrail's, I do wonder if my 2 HAP is right in terms of roof detail. The difference between batches has never been explained so clearly. I thought that the commonwealth bogies were fitted as new on the later units, rather than as a later improvement. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I am not sure where the bogie change comment came from as those comments were drafted years ago. I will investigate but some could have been built with Commonwealth bogies, I always assumed the last batch was at least. My notes need a correction, E103 for for 2HAP D/T 1st batch should be E105. Above 2EPB and 2HAP 1951 stock M/C. Above 2HAP and 4EPB 1957 stock M/C. Above 2HAP phase 1 D/T. Above 2HAP first batch D/T 1951. Above 2HAP phase 2 batch 1. Above 2HAP phase 2 batch 2. Hope these make sence. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Many Thanks Paul, Fascinating stuff, i'll have to check my 2HAP arrangement against your drawings. Special request, could you edit your earlier post drawing list please, to reflect your above mentioned corrections, before all our brains explode ! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Brian, I have edited previous post. Also I note on E101 1957 stock motorcoach comment "number 2 M/C omit items 2 & 9+9a" should read "...items 1 & 9+9a" as 1 refers to the MG set different from MG item 2 on E103 1951 stock motorcoach. Basically number 2 M/C does not have MG and batteries. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks again Paul, I think i can just about get my head around this mass of information ! BTW, where and what was drawing E102? I've compared by third batch 2HAP with your drawings, and i'm relieved to say the motor coach matches very well, however my driving trailer is lacking the round tanks, the AWS box and Colin's favourite, the toilet dump pipes. Were any 2HAPs built with AWS or was that a later addition? No sign today of a Bachmann 2HAP announcement, perhaps it's held back by a contractual agreement over the DTC with Kernow, for the time being? Now we have the news, we can all revise our kit building and conversion plans ! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Brian, E102 is BR Trailer Second 4EPB. I am not sure if units were built with AWS. Point to note is Westinghouse AWS was a rare version hence the large cabinet which might have come with phase 2. Standard AWS had these bits in the cab I think. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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