West Coast Railway Company ECS catches fire near Salford Crescent

[newbryford]

Yep another 47 bound for the scrape yard.

 

Heart braking

 

Terry

 

I wouldn't worry too much - WCRC have a few more spare 47's...................

 

Cheers,

Mick

[woodenhead]

Aye, Carnforth is a veritable Crewe Diesel these days.

 

Pity.they hadn't chosen rail blue for their livery, it's the closest representation of an MPD from the 70's than any heritage location and its a fully fledged private sector business.

[newbryford]

Aye, Carnforth is a veritable Crewe Diesel these days. Pity.they hadn't chosen rail blue for their livery, it's the closest representation of an MPD from the 70's than any heritage location and its a fully fledged private sector business.

 

Although from some angles, it resembles a diesel version of Dai Woodhams' yard at Barry.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[TheSignalEngineer]

There was some more WCRC stock +47 sticking out of the TP Depot at Ardwick this afternoon. Are they having some work done there?

[87023Velocity]

There was some more WCRC stock +47 sticking out of the TP Depot at Ardwick this afternoon. Are they having some work done there?

WCRC have some of their tyre turning undertaken on the wheel lathe at Ardwick.

 

Simon

[woodenhead]

Although from some angles, it resembles a diesel version of Dai Woodhams' yard at Barry.

 

It's looking a lot better, I think they've had a good clean out of scrap coaches. There was a steam engine on site yesterday morning but it was at the back so I couldn't make out what it was. I pass at least once a week and the engines regularly exchange locations on shed showing a lot of activity for WCRC. Last week 47500 was parked in the heads hunt, yesterday it was 47237.

[Jim Martin]

Just watched the local news, where this is, as you can probably imagine, a major story. One segment was a vox pop of travellers at Victoria whose journeys had been disrupted by the derailment. Weirdly, one was a woman whose father had had to drive from Allerton to pick her up, while another man was saying that he was going to have to get a tram to Oxford Street (sic) so that he could get a train to Sheffield. The strange thing is that Victoria is the wrong station to be making either of those journeys from. In both cases you'd need to be at Oxford Road or Piccadilly (the station for Allerton being Liverpool South Parkway)

 

Jim

[woodenhead]

Having done the Liverpool route via Warrington Central, I can understand why he would rather get a train from Victoria and head back out from Lime St. Perhaps the lady for Sheffield was going via Salford Crescent to get to Oxford Rd, but therein lies another story about the cracked diamond.

[brittannia]

Charter from Manchester Victoria on Saturday double headed Black 5s.Also good footage of the fire on Granada website.The place of the fire reminds me of of rushing from school in the late 50s to catch the 4.30pm [no 24 hour clock then!]Scot express usually a Clan

[SHMD]

I wouldn't think that GMFRS deal with too many train fires. IIRC the last 'significant' train fire involving GMFRS was the collision at Eccles in 1984 where 45147 was incinerated.

 

With a large fire more than likely involving diesel fuel, foam would be the medium of choice, so foam branches would be needed to apply the foam. The foam branch mixes the foam liquid with water.

I remember a train of tanks (being pulled) pushing a 31, (cant remember which one), into Stalybridge in the mid 80s sometime. It stopped in the UP Goods loop where upon the driver got calmly out and walked off.

The fire got worse and everyone, on the then platform 2, edged away from the train.

A “good five” minutes elapsed as everyone watched the conflagration grow – at times touching the lead tank! A Station announcement was then heard stating that “Platform 2 was now being evacuated blah blah” or words to that effect, I can't remember precisely.

So I's walks around, with everyone else, to platform 1 and watches the fire develop from there.

It then takes the fire brigade another 3 minutes to turn up on site.

 

The fire station was/is approximately 100m, +/- 10ft, from the Loco AND is within sight!

 

Thankfully, all was contained and nobodyhurt.

I seem to recall that this was after CHEMSTAR but is sit here waiting to be corrected!

 

 

Kev.

(I'll have to look up when and which loco (((286???? or similar)))).

[Titan]

An update: A fireman at the scene stated that the train had run approx 150m derailed.

 

Looking at the plan of the layout, it appears the point of derailment on the entry to the sharp left hand curve coming off the viaduct, whereupon the loco derailed to the right.

 

There is no pointwork in the vicinity of the derailment, nor did the loco cross any pointwork whilst derailed (although it would not of needed to travel much further before it did) so track damage should hopefully be limited.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Titan

[87023Velocity]

An update: A fireman at the scene stated that the train had run approx 150m derailed.

 

Looking at the plan of the layout, it appears the train was travelling on the 'Up Bolton' in the Down direction - ie wrong road. This would put the point of derailment on the entry to the sharp left hand curve coming off the viaduct, whereupon the loco derailed to the right.

 

There is no pointwork in the vicinity of the derailment, nor did the loco cross any pointwork whilst derailed (although it would not of needed to travel much further before it did) so track damage should hopefully be limited.

Just looked on the Manchester Evening News website and it is stating that a vital piece of trackwork has been damaged and could spell weeks of misery for passengers, does not sound good.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/several-trains-were-cancelled-after-1238797

 

This has been quoted from National Rail, suspect they mean Network Rail?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[woodenhead]

The news is reporting weeks of disruption due to damamged track and a specialist bit now having to be cast, wonder where the damaged track is?

 

At that point the derailed locomotive had been on plain track since Deansgate junction and there is no disruption to trains passing there.

 

Has someone in the media mistakenly linked the cracked diamond a Salford Crescent with this incident I wonder.

[cromptonnut]

Interesting, "fire under a train" in Weymouth this morning.   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21175993

[brushman47544]

I would agree Titan - I would think the loco derailed first and ruptured a fuel tank and then took fire - it will be interesting to find out in time. Unusual in my eyes for the heavy locomotive to leave the tracks when on the back of the train or maybe the points failed or something under 47500. A shame for one time celebrity 47500 - in BR days all sorts used to get fixed up after bogie fires - depends on the damage level I guess but this now has derailment damage too! Anyway thankfully everyone is OK.

 

I was on a Hertfordshire Railtours trip quite a few years ago now where the 47 on the rear derailed on a crossing - somewhere in the Immingham area IIRC. In that case the track spread under the loco.

 

This couldn't have happened at a worse place. This Junction is very, very busy. Glad no one injured.

 

Having it rough the railways of Salford recently. The Diamond at Salford Crescent Junction failed around Christmas, and may not be relaid untill April. (according to link below). It was straight - lined, leaving a single track in the Salford Crescent - Man Vic line for a short distance. This is / has caused serious problems. Not sure if  this bit of line is back to normal. By the way Todays incident was around a mile east of Salford Crescent and not at this junction.

 

Long complicated story if your interested here.

 

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=77356

 

Brit15

 

Reading the linked thread, I was surprised that the diamond crossing was being made in Romania. Is it standard practice now to out-source this work rather than NR doing it in house, or at least in the UK?

[Titan]

Drat! It does not matter how quickly you manage to correct a mistake someone manages to quote it first!

[sixteen 12by 10s]

I was on a Hertfordshire Railtours trip quite a few years ago now where the 47 on the rear derailed on a crossing - somewhere in the Immingham area IIRC. In that case the track spread under the loco.

 

 

Reading the linked thread, I was surprised that the diamond crossing was being made in Romania. Is it standard practice now to out-source this work rather than NR doing it in house, or at least in the UK?

If the common crossings are cast, i very much doubt if there is a foundry left trading in the uk to cast them.

 

Gary

[Guest Phil]

 

Reading the linked thread, I was surprised that the diamond crossing was being made in Romania. Is it standard practice now to out-source this work rather than NR doing it in house, or at least in the UK?

It has been for a good fifteen years that I know to. Back then the cast crossings were made in Germany, so perhaps procurement has slid even further east.

[sixteen 12by 10s]

Sounds about right.

Continuing EU and other legislation, and coupled with the running cost, have pushed iron foundry's out to the edge.

 

Gary

 

Ps, I have worked in the same Black Country iron foundry for 34 years!

[big jim]

The diamond crossing on the entrance to tyseley had a worn out piece last year and the lead time from the foundry in the former eastern block was 5 months, there was an ESR in place there for 26 weeks, only got lifted a few weeks back

['CHARD]

It has been for a good fifteen years that I know to. Back then the cast crossings were made in Germany, so perhaps procurement has slid even further east.

 

Lad here was apprenticed at a plant that cast S&C, and described the kind of kit used for machining and finishing these precision pieces, and moreover the breed of operator responsible. 

 

From the environment he conjured, it doesn't surprise me in the least that this sort of hard manual activity is typical of East European outsourcing.  Not gonna get drawn into the respective approaches to Health and Safety in the two parts of the world, but I've no doubt the cost implications of this feature in the equation.

[jamie92208]

It's not just track parts that are difficult to source.  I had great difficulty finding somewhere to get brake blocks cast for a horse tram.  I was offerred Poland and 6 months delivery but eventually after a lot of phone calls got them done in Halifax in 6 weeks.

 

Jamie

Edited January 24, 2013 by jamie92208

[Dan Hill]

Interesting, "fire under a train" in Weymouth this morning.   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-21175993

Yeah fires do seem to cropping up quite a bit at the moment. A Gatwick Express Class 442 caught fire at London Victoria last week (the day after the Helicopter crash in Central London).

 

I don't have much interest in Diesels but I think 47500 was the one of the last diesels I saw last month (twice I think once at Haywards Heath on the rear of a RTC tour with 34067 Tangmere and then again in York just before Christmas) along with another Class 47(In BR Blue) and a WCRC Class 37.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Dan Hill

[big jim]

i think its a lot do with water getting where it shouldn't and causing shorts, i had 2 different 67s last week with problems caused by water ingress including a traction motor flashover on one of them

 

 

[Oldddudders]

i think its a lot do with water getting where it shouldn't and causing shorts, i had 2 different 67s last week with problems caused by water ingress including a traction motor flashover on one of them

ISTR the 465s getting into major difficulties in their first snow 20+ years ago. Traction motor design seems to stumble a bit at times, with lessons from the past being unlearned.