Bachmann 64xx Panniers

[tomparryharry]

I see the photographs in Model Rail show what appears to be separate pipe work, and a mould application line around the base of the top feed.

 

Would anyone else care to comment on this?

 

I know I keep banging on about pre-war locomotives, but for me, it opens up exactly where I am with timescales, etc.

 

Regards,

Ian

[Neal Ball]

I see the photographs in Model Rail show what appears to be separate pipe work, and a mould application line around the base of the top feed.

 

Would anyone else care to comment on this?

 

I know I keep banging on about pre-war locomotives, but for me, it opens up exactly where I am with timescales, etc.

 

Regards,

Ian

 

Have you emailed Bachmann? Maybe in the first instance for information, then with a suggestion about no top feeds.

[tomparryharry]

Hi Neal,

 

I must confess that I haven't e-mailed Bachmann. Having seen the 'grey primer' shots, where the items are separate, and these latest photos (same loco, painted up?), I'm hoping things stay that way.

 

Whom do you e-mail at Bachmann?

 

Regards,

Ian

[Neal Ball]

Hi Neal,I must confess that I haven't e-mailed Bachmann. Having seen the 'grey primer' shots, where the items are separate, and these latest photos (same loco, painted up?), I'm hoping things stay that way.Whom do you e-mail at Bachmann?Regards,Ian

If you are a member of the Bachmann collectors club, there is a contact page. Try that, I always get a reply.

 

https://Bachmann-collectorsclub.co.uk/

 

Good luck!

Edited December 31, 2013 by Neal Ball

[Neal Ball]

Done!

 

I have asked for no top feeds etc.

[The Stationmaster]

But I want the top feeds!! (and they are needed for many of the BR liveried locos in both the 64XX and 74XX series).  I wonder if any without top feeds appeared in BR lined green?

[Neal Ball]

But I want the top feeds!! (and they are needed for many of the BR liveried locos in both the 64XX and 74XX series).  I wonder if any without top feeds appeared in BR lined green?

Both options would be good!

[tomparryharry]

But I want the top feeds!! (and they are needed for many of the BR liveried locos in both the 64XX and 74XX series).  I wonder if any without top feeds appeared in BR lined green?

Hello Mike,

 

The only photo I have is 6425, at Cowbridge, 1950. The loco is still GW, but without top feed.

 

Ian

[tomparryharry]

Done!

 

I have asked for no top feeds etc.

Hello Neal,

 

I'm sure that readers of this thread will be greatly interested in any feedback you get.

 

Regards,

Ian

[Mike Riley]

I'll add a vote for no topfeed.  It is a fiddly job removing the cover and all the pipework.

 

Mike

[David C]

Why can't Bachmann simply supply the top feeds as a separate add on?

 

Moving on, does anyone know if any 64xx's were ever used regularly on non auto fitted trains? I'm not sure I fancy potentially wrecking one attempting to convert it to a 74xx, which would be the logical thing to do. I assume they must have been employed on non auto fitted trains at least from time to time, but I can't recall seeing photos of any such working.

 

David C

[Mike Riley]

Why can't Bachmann simply supply the top feeds as a separate add on?

 

 

It isn't just the clack valve cover on the top of the boiler, there is the pipework that runs along the top of the panniers and then down the side to the injectors.  All that would require a number of very fine parts to be fitted.  I'm afraid that separate tooling is required for non top feed panniers.  Given that the majority of buyers are modelling post war when most of them had top feed, the manufacturer will produce a model that satisfies that majority.

 

Mike

[Coach bogie]

Why can't Bachmann simply supply the top feeds as a separate add on?

 

Moving on, does anyone know if any 64xx's were ever used regularly on non auto fitted trains? I'm not sure I fancy potentially wrecking one attempting to convert it to a 74xx, which would be the logical thing to do. I assume they must have been employed on non auto fitted trains at least from time to time, but I can't recall seeing photos of any such working.

 

David C

 

The 54XX certainly were used on non auto duties. Westbury had more than they needed for Autoworkings and would be used on local trip work. They are mostly remembered for being sent out to Heywood Road Box to pick up slip coaches left by expresses using the Westbury cut off/avoiding line and bringing them into the station for attaching to other trains, usually Weymouth bound.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Miss Prism]

Moving on, does anyone know if any 64xx's were ever used regularly on non auto fitted trains?

 

There are a couple of pics in the Pannier Papers softback showing them working in non-auto mode, but in general, it seems not - the 64xx was a numerically small class designed for auto-work, and there were hundreds of other more powerful tanks available for regular non-auto work.

[Horfield Mob]

I'll add a vote for no topfeed.  It is a fiddly job removing the cover and all the pipework.

 

Mike

I want a top feed 64xx but if I did not I'd rather remove one than build one from scratch! However no doubt eventually all variants will be available. The Bachmann Standard 5 (for instance) has had 4 tender variants and 4 cab variants.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Horfield Mob

[57xx]

 Given that the majority of buyers are modelling post war when most of them had top feed, the manufacturer will produce a model that satisfies that majority.

 

 

We better tell Bachmann not to bother producing any in Great Western or shirt button livery too then, as no one models pre-war and they won't sell any... 

[Coach bogie]

 Given that the majority of buyers are modelling post war when most of them had top feed, the manufacturer will produce a model that satisfies that majority.

 

Mike

 

Is this based on hard data or an assumption?

 

Personally, Bachmann have lost out big time with this obsession with post-war condition/liveries. My Bachmann Panniers have now all gone, replaced with much detailed K’s, M&L etc.  The top feed on Bachmann’s 64XX was encouragement enough to build up my Nucast in 1930’s condition. Although I will obtain an Earl for rebuild into Tre Pol & Pen, my K’s and Mallard Earls are unlikely to replaced.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited January 7, 2014 by Coach bogie

[Neal Ball]

We better tell Bachmann not to bother producing any in Great Western or shirt button livery too then, as no one models pre-war and they won't sell any... 

 

I assume you are being ironic!

[Neal Ball]

Done!

 

I have asked for no top feeds etc.

 

Bachmann have replied! - They will pass my request onto the R & D department.

[Dunsignalling]

Is this based on hard data or an assumption?

 

Personally, Bachmann have lost out big time with this obsession with post-war condition/liveries. My Bachmann Panniers have now all gone, replaced with much detailed K’s, M&L etc.  The top feed on Bachmann’s 64XX was encouragement enough to build up my Nucast in 1930’s condition. Although I will obtain an Earl for rebuild into Tre Pol & Pen, my K’s and Mallard Earls are unlikely to replaced.

 

Mike Wiltshire

I think it is fair to assume that it is substantially true.

 

Bachmann and Hornby both produce more BR versions (and re-runs) of most models than pre-1948 (all groups, not just GWR).  They wouldn't do so unless their sales data suggested there was a good reason for it. 

 

My local supplier reckons his sales of BR (steam outline) locos outnumber pre-war versions by more than 4 to 1, which is rather higher than the manufacturers' ratio. Even within the BR era there is a post-early fifties bias. Every swapmeet trader I encounter carries several unsold BR Malachite West Countries whilst most Brunswick green ones are quite hard to find (and more expensive).

 

Most of the GWR modellers I know seem to set their layouts in a very tight time-frame and consequently refuse to buy quite a lot of the GWR models that are produced. By contrast many of my SR friends buy one of anything Southern on principle even if it is a bit wide of their main interest. It can always go in the display cabinet!

 

I have no doubt that Bachmann will get round to making earlier variants of the 64xx, but it is quite reasonable to expect them to concentrate first on the liveries that will repay their investment quickest.

 

John

Edited January 8, 2014 by Dunsignalling

[tomparryharry]

I think it is fair to assume that it is substantially true.

 

Bachmann and Hornby both produce more BR versions (and re-runs) of most models than pre-1948 (all groups, not just GWR).  They wouldn't do so unless their sales data suggested there was a good reason for it. 

 

My local supplier reckons his sales of BR (steam outline) locos outnumber pre-war versions by more than 4 to 1, which is rather higher than the manufacturers' ratio. Even within the BR era there is a post-early fifties bias. Every swapmeet trader I encounter carries several unsold BR Malachite West Countries whilst most Brunswick green ones are quite hard to find (and more expensive).

 

Most of the GWR modellers I know seem to set their layouts in a very tight time-frame and consequently refuse to buy quite a lot of the GWR models that are produced. By contrast many of my SR friends buy one of anything Southern on principle even if it is a bit wide of their main interest. It can always go in the display cabinet!

 

I have no doubt that Bachmann will get round to making earlier variants of the 64xx, but it is quite reasonable to expect them to concentrate first on the liveries that will repay their investment quickest.

 

John

I can understand all of that. However, a proportion of locomotives ran without topfeed. It depends on what boiler style the loco is carrying. You can still have BR green, but without topfeed! If you take 6425 (Llantrisant, 1950), then you can have GW livery, no topfeed, etc. I don't have the figures to hand, but I'll bet the figures for topfeed boilers are around 50%, and that's in the 1950's

 

I'm trying to get an accurate layout, set in the middle 1930's. Although it's a branch line, it means no railcars, as I'm a few years too early. Felix Pole 20 tonners are a new introduction. As much as I like the Dukedog, I can't justify one. They didn't make it to the backwaters of the valleys. Can't even have a 45xx! It's definitely 56xx, panniers, large metro's & 42xx, with a smattering of TV class A, and class O4. With the exception of the O4, that's how close I can reasonably go. GW motive power is so readily scrutinised, anything less is not really 'on'.

 

If I move up by 15 years, then it all becomes easy. But, I'm not a great fan of nationalisation. One 16 tonner looks like another 16 tonner. Gone are most, if not all of the private owner brands. So to, are some of the locomotives I seek to operate & portray. This includes the 64xx, in my chosen area.

 

Ian

[Dunsignalling]

I can understand all of that. However, a proportion of locomotives ran without topfeed. It depends on what boiler style the loco is carrying. You can still have BR green, but without topfeed! If you take 6425 (Llantrisant, 1950), then you can have GW livery, no topfeed, etc. I don't have the figures to hand, but I'll bet the figures for topfeed boilers are around 50%, and that's in the 1950's

 

I'm trying to get an accurate layout, set in the middle 1930's. Although it's a branch line, it means no railcars, as I'm a few years too early. Felix Pole 20 tonners are a new introduction. As much as I like the Dukedog, I can't justify one. They didn't make it to the backwaters of the valleys. Can't even have a 45xx! It's definitely 56xx, panniers, large metro's & 42xx, with a smattering of TV class A, and class O4. With the exception of the O4, that's how close I can reasonably go. GW motive power is so readily scrutinised, anything less is not really 'on'.

 

If I move up by 15 years, then it all becomes easy. But, I'm not a great fan of nationalisation. One 16 tonner looks like another 16 tonner. Gone are most, if not all of the private owner brands. So to, are some of the locomotives I seek to operate & portray. This includes the 64xx, in my chosen area.

 

Ian

Actually 1950 isn't all that easy, though there were still a fair number of ex-PO wagons around. Admittedly they'd mostly be pretty tatty by then but the neglect started (at least for the smaller owners) during the Depression and some would have been getting fairly rough even in your chosen era.

 

"My" favoured period of 1958-63 is much better catered-for (though that isn't why I chose it) and, yes, those 64xx models that fit my plans did have topfeed by then! The Dukedog doesn't fit for me either, but it's not going to stop me having one.

 

I very much doubt that Bachmann will be daft enough to mould the topfeed as an integral part of the body shell, so your time will almost certainly come.

 

John

Edited January 8, 2014 by Dunsignalling

[tomparryharry]

Hi John,

 

Agree with all of that. However, you mention ex-po wagons. I'm more interested in the era before call-up.

 

As for topfeed, I've got my fingers crossed.....

 

Regards,

Ian

[57xx]

57xx why don't you conduct a poll before saying no one models pre-war then contact Bachmann with your findings.

You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in my post there 81C.

 

*I* model pre-WWII and am fed up with top feeds being obligatory for the last 35+ years on GW liveried locos. Given how the manufacturers are now able to model variations on a theme e.g. Hornby with the 2800, 8 coupled tanks and Stars being available with variations of straight/curved footplates, with/without steam pipes etc, then producing models with no top-feed option to match the livery and timezone they are supposed to portray shouldn't be beyond them.

 

And yes, to those who might want to say it, I have "done some modelling" and removed top feeds off an Airfix 14xx I bought for £15 30+ years ago and one of those surplus 57xx bodies that were on eBay a while ago. It was enough of a pain not to want to do it to a brand new £70+ loco. 

Edited January 8, 2014 by 57xx

[57xx]

I assume you are being ironic!

 

Extremely!!!!!