Level crossing stupidity...

[martin_wynne]

I thought fire engines carried a shotgun to take out red lights?

 

Is everything I learned as a kid wrong?

 

Martin.

[hmrspaul]

No, that sounds about par for the course for cyclists (certainly round here)- I narrowly avoid being knocked over by them on the pavement several times a day (often when there's a cycle lane in parallel) and last night after dark I got passed by five consecutive cyclists without lights in the space of a couple of hundred metres (4 of them on the pavement). I'm coming to the conclusion the main reason they have bikes is because they can't afford BMWs... ;-)

Where abouts in York do you live?

 

Paul

[newbryford]

I suppose technically when a fire engine with the siren on comes up behind a car at a traffic light and starts blasting away on the air horn, they aren't actually forcing the driver to go through the red light...

 

 

I think we've been through all this on the driving standards thread.

 

Emergency vehicles are instructed to turn off their sirens in queues at traffic lights. There is a very good video on you tube "Blue light aware" that shows how to handle blues and twos.

 

Even though it is illegal to pass a red traffic light to allow emergency vehicles to proceed, there is a moral v legal argument in doing so.

I once asked a driving test examiner about this and even though it is illegal, they would take into account the situation if a learner driver on test moved forward carefully to let the blue lights through. After all, it could be their house burning down.........

 

Red traffic lights and blues wasn't an uncommon occurrence on tests as the fire/ambulance station was just down the road from the test centre.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Coryton]

Emergency vehicles are instructed to turn off their sirens in queues at traffic lights. There is a very good video on you tube "Blue light aware" that shows how to handle blues and twos.

 

 

Nevertheless I have often seen fire engines using both siren and horn to bully someone into moving through a red light.

[Reorte]

Ah, emergency vehicles arriving when you're sat at traffic lights. Exactly what you don't want on your driving test, and exactly what I got.

[Budgie]

Ah, emergency vehicles arriving when you're sat at traffic lights. Exactly what you don't want on your driving test, and exactly what I got.

Did you pass?

[ejstubbs]

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/907198112581738496

 

The crossing is Moreton-on-Lugg.  Nothing bad has ever happened there, has it?  Oh, hang on...

[Reorte]

Did you pass?

Yes. I wasn't really sure what I was supposed to do though at the time, I suffled to the side as much as I could without passing the light. IIRC I touched the kerb in doing so but didn't get a minor for that (although I may be remembering wrong, I did get a couple of minors but I've forgotten what they were for now). In the end the ambulance went the other side of the traffic island anyway. This was shortly after I'd gone the wrong way too, never a good idea but the examiner admitted his directions had been too vague.

 

I couldn't have been more relieved when I was told I had passed, I was incredibly nervous beforehand.

[The Stationmaster]

Oddly on my Driving Test virtually all the Highway Code questions were about the (relatively) new fangled automatic level crossings with barriers, so were a  sort of gift from the gods.   I don't know how many AHB's etc there were about in 1965 but there definitely weren't any automatic crossings of any kind within 40-50 miles of our local 'Test Centre' (a pokey little office in the Market Place).

[martin_wynne]

Another case of railway-side failure. Published today: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-digest-132017-broad-oak-lc/dangerous-occurrence-at-broad-oak-level-crossing-near-canterbury-kent-29-june-2017

 

Martin.

[melmerby]

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/907198112581738496

 

 

I get "Sorry that page doesn't exist"

What's it about?

 

Keith

[petethemole]

Somebody using the crossing as a location for a romantic photograph, on the track.

[ejstubbs]

Apologies, it definitely existed when I posted the link.  It looks like the NR press office has deleted the tweet.  It did clearly identify the professional photographer who took the photo, who might have objected.  (The tweet also seemed to attract a number of "can't see the harm in that" responses, both on Twitter and on Rail Forums UK where I first saw it.)

 

Edit: Someone on Rail Forums UK posted a link to what seems to be the original tweet to Rail magazine with the offending photo.  NR have now deleted their tweet, having spoken to the photographer involved about the wisdom or otherwise of using a level crossing on an 85mph stretch of railway as a wedding photo location.  (Having got married myself recently, I know all too well that you never 'just pause' to get your photo taken by a wedding photographer!  There is always a bit of faff involved to get the shot set up, and they usually take several, asking you to adjust your pose between each one.)

Edited September 13, 2017 by ejstubbs

[royaloak]

Well now, here's a classic case of where common sense (and 'doing the right thing') has been effectively wiped out by a 'jobsworth mentality' if you get caught by a <safety camera> whilst doing just that. Automatic fine issued by computer for passing the red light, and it's not guaranteed that you could get it quashed, even if you can sacrifice the time and money to fight it. Ditto going into bus lanes or a yellow box to get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine who is trying to get past on 'blues and twos'. Quite often, and some might say with justifiable cynicism, the film/images that would show why you did what you did are 'conveniently' either corrupted during recording/storage or lost...

You dont do any of that these days because common sense doesnt exist any more, and as these 'crimes' are black and white (you either did it or you didnt and they have photographic proof that you did) then you are guilty, they are not interested in why you did it, only the fact that you actually did it.

 

Been there done that.

[ejstubbs]

Can we call a halt to the "common sense doesn't exist any more" remarks, please?  People have been doing stupid things since time immemorial*, there's nothing particularly special about the present era, except perhaps that there are more distractions competing for people's attention than there used to be.

 

* I can make that statement with full confidence that no-one can prove me wrong since, by definition, there is no memory, record, or tradition of what went on then!  (Note that the legal usage of the term is specific to that profession.  It may even be considered to be technical jargon.)

Edited September 13, 2017 by ejstubbs

[Rugd1022]

Oddly on my Driving Test virtually all the Highway Code questions were about the (relatively) new fangled automatic level crossings with barriers, so were a  sort of gift from the gods.   I don't know how many AHB's etc there were about in 1965 but there definitely weren't any automatic crossings of any kind within 40-50 miles of our local 'Test Centre' (a pokey little office in the Market Place).

 

I think one of the first barrier crossings was at Gwinear Road Mike, c.1965.

[royaloak]

Can we call a halt to the "common sense doesn't exist any more" remarks, please?  People have been doing stupid things since time immemorial*, there's nothing particularly special about the present era, except perhaps that there are more distractions competing for people's attention than there used to be.

 

* I can make that statement with full confidence that no-one can prove me wrong since, by definition, there is no memory, record, or tradition of what went on then!  (Note that the legal usage of the term is specific to that profession.  It may even be considered to be technical jargon.)

Nope because almost on a daily basis I see what I would consider intelligent people do really stupid things, maybe if they got their noses out of their 'smart' phones they wouldnt do stupid things!

[jim.snowdon]

Nope because almost on a daily basis I see what I would consider intelligent people do really stupid things, maybe if they got their noses out of their 'smart' phones they wouldnt do stupid things!

If only we would stop protecting them from their actions and let Darwin's principles do their work.....

 

Jim

[caradoc]

If only we would stop protecting them from their actions and let Darwin's principles do their work.....

 

Jim

 

As long as you don't mind that principle applying to your own family and friends, as well everybody you don't know or care about.

[Titan]

And bearing in mind that they are quite capable of taking innocent people with them too.

[jim.snowdon]

That's the snag, especially for the train driver who can do nothing about it.

 

But, it doesn't matter how much you tell people something is dangerous, if they do not perceive it as dangerous. The issue with level crossings, as well as road traffic signals in general, is that there is a significant delay between being told to stop, and the reason for that, ie the train or other traffic, arrives and actually makes it dangerous to proceed.

 

Jim

[martin_wynne]

But, it doesn't matter how much you tell people something is dangerous, if they do not perceive it as dangerous. The issue with level crossings, as well as road traffic signals in general, is that there is a significant delay between being told to stop, and the reason for that, ie the train or other traffic, arrives and actually makes it dangerous to proceed.

 

As I've mentioned before, I can't understand why there is not a big red sign saying THE TRAIN CANNOT STOP. This would explain the reason for the flashing lights, which is half the battle in getting people to obey rules. When I have talked to people after a level crossing accident has been in the news, they often say "why didn't the train stop when it saw the car?" With our technical mindset it is difficult to believe they could be such dimwits, but they aren't -- they just have different brains. One was a prize-winner every year in the local flower show -- everything I ever tried to grow either died or got eaten by slugs.

 

Martin.

[Reorte]

Get them educated early I think. Could Network Rail knock together a portable simulator that could be taken around schools? "Stop the train before you hit the buffers" (or car on the level crossing) for the kids, give them some idea of how far they take to stop. Better still if the speed and track mean that stopping point is well out of sight by the time they need to start braking. Such a hands-on experience will probably stick in the mind better than any number of videos or talks, no matter how hard-hitting they may be.

 

Perhaps preserved railways could get involved too, helped even more by using the real thing, although obviously chosing locations where there's nothing to hit when they over-run ("stop before you go under the bridge" maybe).

Edited September 14, 2017 by Reorte

[royaloak]

That's the snag, especially for the train driver who can do nothing about it.

 

But, it doesn't matter how much you tell people something is dangerous, if they do not perceive it as dangerous. The issue with level crossings, as well as road traffic signals in general, is that there is a significant delay between being told to stop, and the reason for that, ie the train or other traffic, arrives and actually makes it dangerous to proceed.

 

Jim

On an AOCL AHB it can be as little as 7 seconds from the barriers lowering and the train arriving, but people still take the risk.

Edited September 15, 2017 by royaloak

[Colin_McLeod]

On an AOCL it can be as little as 7 seconds from the barriers lowering and the train arriving, but people still take the risk.

An AOCL does not have barriers!