A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[gwrrob]

Something different today in the shape of Austerity class 77294 on an up service.

 

[Mallard60022]

Brian, I know you have a rule about 'Kits' and Polls. However, as some folk on here are quite fond of Kit building, and this post is about building other things as well as purchasing a RTR example, may I just remind folk of the large range of Toplights (and other weird GWR stuff) from Worsley Works? 

That company also do a lovely Weekend Workshop for Kit builders, or just people that want to meet up and have a good time with railway related subjects. Not many people mention Worsley but I know their products and customer care and it is top rate. Think this years is in Bucks?

This is just in case no RTR outfit ever makes anything anyone here has voted for of course, not a distraction meant in any way at all.

Delete or send me to the Naughty Chair (can't do Steps as my back is busted) if you wish.

Phil

[BMacdermott]

Hello Phil

 

No problem whatsoever.

 

In fact, one of the links we supplied in the Toplights Poll was a Worsley Works.

 

What we don't like is when the old chestnut of 'kits versus RTR' comes up. The two have their places and can live happily side-by-side. It's when some suggests that RTR enthusiasts are 'lazy' etc that problems start.

 

Personally, I don't have aptitude for kit building - let alone my 'caring duties' taking up time - but have an immense appreciation of RTR.

 

Brian

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Phil

 

No problem whatsoever.

In fact, one of the links we supplied in the Toplights Poll was a Worsley Works.

What we don't like is when the old chestnut of 'kits versus RTR' comes up. The two have their places and can live happily side-by-side. It's when some suggests that RTR enthusiasts are 'lazy' etc that problems start.

Personally, I don't have aptitude for kit building - let alone my 'caring duties' taking up time - but have an immense appreciation of RTR.

 

Brian

Reckoned you would be OK with it Brian. Apologies that I missed the LInk though. I think there are few pro builders now that would have 'the knowledge' to complete coaches for this era. There are younger builders, however of course but maybe they are not old enough to have the extra memories or to even want to build 'old stuff'. Apologies to those young guns on here that are totally capable and have the knowledge.

All the best Brian and all.

P

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

I wonder how many modellers here have ever considered coaching stock length and width

In recent decades I think some of us have become aware of a concept called Kinematic Envelope, which takes account of overhangs on curves. These can occur in the middle of the vehicle or at the ends, and for those of us of a less-scientific bent, are referred to as side-throw and end-throw. Crudely put, this is about trains not clouting each other or the structures or scenery in passing. 

[mattingleycustom]

On 14/08/2021 at 08:57, Mallard60022 said:

Grief. Even I can have too many Spams in a short time.

 

One observation - when cutting out etched nameplates, etc, don't forget to file the tabs down. Etched nameplates with extraneous 'bits' of brass sticking out is not a good look.

 

Glenn

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Thanks Mike & Miss Prism

 

I'm not and haven't ever been 'a railwayman', but it seems to me that Appendixes often simply 'caught up' with what was happening on the ground. 

 

The subject of 'lengths & widths' is one which doesn't seem to bother many (as far as I  can tell).

 

I wonder how many modellers here have ever considered coaching stock length and width - and, perhaps, 'correct' gangway connectors etc. 

 

A future Mini-Poll perhaps? 

 

Brian

 

 

Years ago (well about 40 odd to be more exact) I worked with a chap who had been the last Yard Master in Old Oak Passenger Yard before more 'modern' management structures came in.  He had spent his entire railway career rising through the Shunting grades to supervisory jobs based solely at either West London or Old Oak and had started in GWR days.  I often asked him about the addition of strengthening vehicles or replacements in formations as the Notices usually only showed them as 'X number of seats' or 'brakevan with  x number of seats' apart from things like Mail trains where there were spare vehicles identified by running number.   His replies really explained why GW/early WR passenger trains had the appearance that was so typical because the yard simply used the most convenient vehicle with a matching or 'near enough' number of seats provided it was suitable for the train's route in restriction terms (which I suspect wasn't always followed anyway).  

 

To the yard staff nothing else mattered as long as they could get the job done in time.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Ian and Paul

 

I think we are in agreement but talking at cross-purposes...

 

My comment - which I should have made clearer - was in reference to lengths of real coaches, 'loading gauge' and whether modellers take that into account when running trains.

 

The 'model overhang' on small radius curves affects most of us.

 

I have a particularly tight curve in a hidden section (Radius 2 and 3) where I have had to compromise. Anything of Mk1 length is prohibited from stopping on the outer curve so that trains can flow freely round the inner curve. Actually easy to do as the outer curve is the section immediately prior to 'exiting a tunnel' and entering my station.

 

Brian

[St Enodoc]

17 minutes ago, mattingleycustom said:

 

One observation - when cutting out etched nameplates, etc, don't forget to file the tabs down. Etched nameplates with extraneous 'bits' of brass sticking out is not a good look.

 

Glenn

...and after you've done that, darken the edges with metal black or paint.

[5BarVT]

Thanks Brian.  Being a ‘more modern but not that modern’ modeller is easy in that respect so not something that needs consideration as very few places were not C1 restriction and I’m not as late as needing C3, C4 or C5. (And I have to admit to not having a clue what C2 is/was, but that’s for a different topic as this one is gloriously GWR.)

Paul.

[Oldddudders]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

...and after you've done that, darken the edges with metal black or paint.

A felt tip pen sometimes cuts the mustard. 

[bgman]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

A felt tip pen sometimes cuts the mustard. 

 

Blimey you've got some strange eating habits mate !

[BMacdermott]

30 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Years ago (well about 40 odd to be more exact) I worked with a chap who had been the last Yard Master in Old Oak Passenger Yard before more 'modern' management structures came in.  He had spent his entire railway career rising through the Shunting grades to supervisory jobs based solely at either West London or Old Oak and had started in GWR days.  I often asked him about the addition of strengthening vehicles or replacements in formations as the Notices usually only showed them as 'X number of seats' or 'brakevan with  x number of seats' apart from things like Mail trains where there were spare vehicles identified by running number.   His replies really explained why GW/early WR passenger trains had the appearance that was so typical because the yard simply used the most convenient vehicle with a matching or 'near enough' number of seats provided it was suitable for the train's route in restriction terms (which I suspect wasn't always followed anyway).  

 

To the yard staff nothing else mattered as long as they could get the job done in time.

 

Thanks Mike

 

About 20  years ago, I had  the pleasure of meeting up with a chap who had worked in the passenger yards at Newton Abbot during the late 50/early 60s.

 

His comments match with your man...they did their best to have 'matching colours' etc but it wasn't always possible.

 

Fortunately, there are numerous tape recordings of staff who worked on the S&D (and perhaps other lines have them, too) as well as books by drivers and signalmen. However, I'm not aware of any writings specifically by staff of Old Oak Carriage Sidings (and West London, Paddington Yard etc).

 

I need to work on the time travel capsule!

 

Brian

[The Stationmaster]

There are still people alive who worked at Old Oak but of course in much later years when the world was somewhat different.  But even in my time there we still had a good selection of loco hauled sets on the books plus spare diners and mail vehicles and the entertainment of reforming News trains from the empty vans which came back east.  I can assure you from the results of one of my idiot Shunter's efforts that Standard gangways are a lot stronger than the ends of ageing Siphons because when he shunted one off but forgot to unclip the gangways they stayed firmly attached and instead pulled the whole end, in one piece, out of a Siphon Packing Van.

[Coach bogie]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Phil

 

No problem whatsoever.

 

In fact, one of the links we supplied in the Toplights Poll was a Worsley Works.

 

What we don't like is when the old chestnut of 'kits versus RTR' comes up. The two have their places and can live happily side-by-side. It's when some suggests that RTR enthusiasts are 'lazy' etc that problems start.

 

Personally, I don't have aptitude for kit building - let alone my 'caring duties' taking up time - but have an immense appreciation of RTR.

 

Brian

 

 

 

Personally I put Worsley Works in neither Kit or rtr. Much of Allen's range can be used to convert or improve current rtr. This is how I started before I was confident enough to try a full kit. Below is Allen's C16 etch which you can use just the sides to improve the Hornby rtr. Brush painted to preserve the rtr roof colour. Back to the early days of Comet.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[gwrrob]

So for example which rtr model could I use to put the K22 sides on please Mike.

[gwrrob]

A few more of 77294.

 

[brianusa]

Ever since I saw my first example of the WDs, I've always liked them - possibly because they looked different compared with the others.  I was younger then and the fact that they were cheaper and only intended for the short term, meant nothing at the time.

     Brian.

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, brianusa said:

Ever since I saw my first example of the WDs, I've always liked them - possibly because they looked different compared with the others.  I was younger then and the fact that they were cheaper and only intended for the short term, meant nothing at the time.

     Brian.

I think I first encountered one at Laira, circa 1959; what a weird machine I probably thought. Not regular visitors as far west in the 60s. Can't even rember which one it was now without searching fir a vert long time; CBA.

Never saw one at North Road; saw loads on the ECML as we overtook them on Coal up and empty coal Down on the few times I used that route, '60 to '62.

I too liked the utilitarian look and the great clanking/clunking Sound they made; quite distinctive. Would have loved to have seen on in full cry somewhere. Rob's looks really good.

P

[Captain Kernow]

22 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Worsley Works? 

That company also do a lovely Weekend Workshop

Well, Worsley Works' Weekend Workshop, wonderful, I'd willingly while away a weekend with Worsley.

 

[Captain Kernow]

22 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

a concept called Kinematic Envelope

I thought the Post Office charged more for these?

 

[Oldddudders]

6 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I thought the Post Office charged more for these?

 

It's a pity no-one sent one to Southern Railway in its early days. In early 1927 it became evident that there was a clearance issue with the new 59' Maunsells at the south end of Lewes Tunnel. Henceforth 9' wide coaches were barred therefrom, which was a mite awkward, as the brand new Newhaven Boat Train coaches were just coming out of works - being 59' x 9' Maunsells. Instructions were issued that nothing must be permitted to pass the boat train in the tunnel. This situation continued until 1935, when electrification works permitted easements here and there and all was well. Set 470, launched as the premium Eastbourne business train set in Feb 1927, was by that April transferred instead to the Worthing service.

 

As another KE example, when gauging works were under way for the Networker stock on the South Eastern, the tunnels beyond Charlton were found to have gouge marks in the wall at cantrail level, where the EPB stock, rocking and rolling at speed, had made regular contact..... 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Ian

 

You won't  believe this but...

 

We have a photo (courtesy of our late Poll Team colleague, Glen Woods) showing Churchward GWR 70ft Diner W9541W (Diag.H15) at the Pullman Works at Brighton in 1956 in between two Pullman cars!

 

Thanks to John Lewis for the reminder.

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

Hello again

 

Also there in 1956 were:

• Diag.H8 W9511W (12-wheels)
• Diag.H24 W9561W
• Diag.H25 W9562W

I wonder if they were there for painting in Chocolate & Cream. The year is right for many receiving that paint scheme. 

 

If so, why not at Swindon? Bit of a mystery!

 

Brian

Edited August 16, 2021 by BMacdermott

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Well, Worsley Works' Weekend Workshop, wonderful, I'd willingly while away a weekend with Worsley.

Now then Mr CK, I shall tell on you.....and we know that juicy Lucy likes dressing up in historic costumes as well....