Simond Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 This may not work, but can’t you have one button for all the magnets? You’re not likely to have pushing moves over two different uncouplers at the same time. Then you don’t need lots of specific buttons or rotary switches. Just one big one ( like Donald’s ). Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 This may not work, but can’t you have one button for all the magnets? You’re not likely to have pushing moves over two different uncouplers at the same time. Then you don’t need lots of specific buttons or rotary switches. Just one big one ( like Donald’s ). Best Simon Tried it, doesn't work as each uses quite a bit of power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Yes to your first option. My thoughts are that I'd like to have a signal box style plan on the panel which shows the sections and has the switches for same on it, plus push buttons for the uncoupling magnets. I'm thinking of having it angled up at about 45deg. Below it, on the flat, I'd like a row (signal box level frame style) of switches for the turnouts and signals. I just wondered if this might help your thought processes. When I was setting up my layout (this was taken about 5 years ago!!) I wanted to operate the points and signals as if I were in a signal box. I had the diagram drawn by the gentleman who drew those for the boxes on Llangollen Railway. The panel is my own design, printed (on aluminium sheet) by a local signwriters. The panel is angled at 60 degrees to the board. The switches operate points and signals electrically - points are operated by Tortoise motors and signals by servos (courtesy of one Jon Fitness of this parish). I've got hand held controller sockets about 3' on each side of the panel - you can see them in these 2 pics: I am really happy with the setup but, if I did it again, I'd make the diagram on the wall a bit smaller as it's going to interfere with the scenery. Hope this is helpful. Rod Edit: Although I use Dingham couplings, I use permanent magnets, hence there's no need for switches or push buttons. Edited January 14, 2018 by Dmudriver 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 14, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 Gosh you've all been busy with your suggestions (many thanks) whilst I've been off-line and drawing something up based on the size of the switches I have. This is where I've got to so far based purely on seeing what will physically fit on the panel in terms of section switches, LEDs (for DC cab control indication) and potential electromagnet push buttons. I've not numbered up the turnouts or signals yet. The switches for those will be in a line as per what Rod has done. Still some work to do but it gives me a good idea on size (length is just under a sheet of A3). I'll have a better read of what Simon, Paul and Rod have posted on Monday. Night all. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Tried it, doesn't work as each uses quite a bit of power. How much? As long as it doesn’t continuously exceed 3kW the mains will provide... Joking aside (as the transformer might be a tad cumbersome), what does it need? If the magnets are similar to solenoid point motors, perhaps a CDU to provide an initial pulse, with a lower continuous current to maintain the pull, might provide a simple and reasonably cheap alternative? T’other question might seem a bit rookie, but my experience of auto couplers is a bit limited. With AJ and Kadee couplers, you only need one magnet at the entrance to each fan of sidings, as they unlatch passing over the magnet, and do not reset til you’ve pulled away. Is this not an option which would reduce the number of uncouplers needed (to 4 on the scenic bit, I think)? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2018 I used Dingham electro uncouplers on Tinners Forge, sourced off the same transformer as the track supply. Not a good idea, as the drain for the magnet severely affected the slow speed of the loco. Several magnets at once could dim the street lights... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 I need to do some experimentation on the placement of the magnets couplings. Looks like I'll be using Dingham. I have heard from others that it's best to put the magnets on straights and that the couplings can re-couple if passing through curves. I think in theory you can put them at the entrance to a fan of sidings but I can see a play being needed to see how that works in practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 Chris, my preference for magnets is to have a rotary switch to select the magnet then a push button to activate it, you soon get used to where to turn the switch and if you can work out which magnets will be used the most these can be grouped together in the middle. Probably told you this before but hey-ho. Thanks Paul, yes you have mentioned it before, and I've seen the installation on your thread. Where did you get the rotary dial from? What amp rating did you go for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) I also like Paul's idea. I use handheld controllers, and could easily fit an additional button for uncoupling so it's easier to do both drive and uncople at the same time. I built TF the wrong way round for me as the control panel is out of reach with my left hand whilst spotting the wagons over the magnet. Edited January 15, 2018 by Stubby47 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2018 Uncoupling magnets could be powered by stud and probe as it should only need a short burst. I generally use three links myself walk up and down to where the wagon is to be uncoupled. In a way having the magnets operated by push buttons along the front would make one run up and down like a real shunter. I have used a single push button to operate a number of turnouts via a CDU on a friends layout. It works because as the solenoid operates the impedance rises when the iron bit is within the coil thus leaving more power for the others. A second push would make sure all six had thrown. This will not work with electromagnets as they will consume a steady power. I suggest not skimping on electromagnets. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 I'm part way through converting Fryers Lane to use the rotary switch and push button like Paul uses. Switch came from Maplin but not sure about amp rating - guess that depends on what your power supply is capable of providing and the draw on the magnets you are using? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 On a joyous note, look what arrived this morning... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Ribbet ribbet Ribbet ribbet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 For your turnout and signal switches, the lever frame kits that Scalefour Society sell buy up very nicely and are designed to operate a micro switch. I really must get around to finishing the one I started a couple of years ago! £20 for a 5 lever frame (plus the micro switches): https://www.scalefour.org/eshop/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 Now stocked up with GREY primer/undercoat. Matches the existing grey much better than the white... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 For your turnout and signal switches, the lever frame kits that Scalefour Society sell buy up very nicely and are designed to operate a micro switch. I really must get around to finishing the one I started a couple of years ago! £20 for a 5 lever frame (plus the micro switches): https://www.scalefour.org/eshop/ I've looked at those a fair few times and have nearly placed an order more than once. They are very nice. I've decided though to go for bog standard electrical toggle switches, at least in the short term, to get the layout up and working. I suspect it would take me quite a while to build them up and I have more then enough to get on with. Perhaps something to look at again in a few years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 Uncoupling magnets could be powered by stud and probe as it should only need a short burst. I generally use three links myself walk up and down to where the wagon is to be uncoupled. In a way having the magnets operated by push buttons along the front would make one run up and down like a real shunter. I have used a single push button to operate a number of turnouts via a CDU on a friends layout. It works because as the solenoid operates the impedance rises when the iron bit is within the coil thus leaving more power for the others. A second push would make sure all six had thrown. This will not work with electromagnets as they will consume a steady power. I suggest not skimping on electromagnets. Don Interesting idea Don but my preference is a centralised panel rather than Iain Rice style dispersed controls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 15, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 Latest thoughts... (16 should be red) Top angled section: Top right the DC/DCC master switch (might cover this), below it the rotary selector and fire button for the electromagnets . Mimic board with section switches and labels Bottom flat section: Row of switches for turnouts and signals. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I also like Paul's idea. I use handheld controllers, and could easily fit an additional button for uncoupling so it's easier to do both drive and uncople at the same time. I built TF the wrong way round for me as the control panel is out of reach with my left hand whilst spotting the wagons over the magnet. Before I went to 7mm scale, I had two 4mm scale layouts where I put the whole of the panel on the end of an umbilical cable so that I could walk up and down the layout with it. It was about the size of a lunchbox and had the push button controls for the controller built into it so that the whole thing rested in my left hand, leaving my right free to do the coupling and uncoupling (I used 3-links). Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2018 Interesting idea Don but my preference is a centralised panel rather than Iain Rice style dispersed controls. I have simply got used to following the train around to couple / uncouple the three links Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Latest thoughts... ScreenHunter_474 Jan. 15 22.18.jpg (16 should be red) Top angled section: Top right the DC/DCC master switch (might cover this), below it the rotary selector and fire button for the electromagnets . Mimic board with section switches and labels Bottom flat section: Row of switches for turnouts and signals. Chris, personally I wouldn't bother with the FPL lever 4 but if you do there ought to be one for point 18 as well. Working points 12 and 18 as a crossover would save a lever too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Before I went to 7mm scale, I had two 4mm scale layouts where I put the whole of the panel on the end of an umbilical cable so that I could walk up and down the layout with it. It was about the size of a lunchbox and had the push button controls for the controller built into it so that the whole thing rested in my left hand, leaving my right free to do the coupling and uncoupling (I used 3-links). Jim I seem to recall that Ian Futers did something similar on one of his layouts (Scotsgap Junction?). He had the thing hanging round his neck like an ice-cream vendor at the pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Chris, personally I wouldn't bother with the FPL lever 4 but if you do there ought to be one for point 18 as well. Working points 12 and 18 as a crossover would save a lever too.Unlike crossover 14, 12 and 18 are some distance apart. The length between them could be used to spot a wagon whilst shunting the clay siding. At this point I think I'd like the flexibility of them not being run off the same switch. I did wonder about a FPL for 18 on the layout. I suspect though that 'levers'for them will be left off the final control panel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Before I went to 7mm scale, I had two 4mm scale layouts where I put the whole of the panel on the end of an umbilical cable so that I could walk up and down the layout with it. It was about the size of a lunchbox and had the push button controls for the controller built into it so that the whole thing rested in my left hand, leaving my right free to do the coupling and uncoupling (I used 3-links). Jim I am planning of having some flexibility in the positioning of the panel but I suspect it will probably sit at the end of board 4 next to the fiddle yard. I have however completely discounted using 3 links for this project. Boards are too deep and I find the frustrating to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Unlike crossover 14, 12 and 18 are some distance apart. The length between them could be used to spot a wagon whilst shunting the clay siding. At this point I think I'd like the flexibility of them not being run off the same switch. I did wonder about a FPL for 18 on the layout. I suspect though that 'levers'for them will be left off the final control panel. Fair enough - just need to work out how the signalling would take that wagon into account... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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