RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Fair enough - just need to work out how the signalling would take that wagon into account... Yes, I did think that. Lockable scotch block? The added complication is that the link between 12 and 18 runs downhill away from the main. Stopping wagons could be problematic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 Before I went to 7mm scale, I had two 4mm scale layouts where I put the whole of the panel on the end of an umbilical cable so that I could walk up and down the layout with it. It was about the size of a lunchbox and had the push button controls for the controller built into it so that the whole thing rested in my left hand, leaving my right free to do the coupling and uncoupling (I used 3-links). Jim On my first 0 gauge layout I did something similar I put the turnout switches in a small black box and taped it to the hand held controller taping the two leads together. The layout was 10ft long and we operated from the front. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 Unlike crossover 14, 12 and 18 are some distance apart. The length between them could be used to spot a wagon whilst shunting the clay siding. At this point I think I'd like the flexibility of them not being run off the same switch. I did wonder about a FPL for 18 on the layout. I suspect though that 'levers'for them will be left off the final control panel. Did the LSWR/SR go in for economic FPLs worked from the same lever as the turnout? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Did the LSWR/SR go in for economic FPLs worked from the same lever as the turnout? Don Separate levers on the diagram for Bodmin North. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Yes, I did think that. Lockable scotch block? The added complication is that the link between 12 and 18 runs downhill away from the main. Stopping wagons could be problematic! If you planned to be able to park a wagon between 12 and 18 you would need a trap to protect the passenger line through 18 . Positioning the trap to ensure that a derailed wagon would stay clear of the turnout might mean there wasn't enough room for the wagon. However in model form you can bend the rules. Don Of course if you had locked out the passenger line while shunting you could place a wagon in there. Edited January 16, 2018 by Donw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 If you planned to be able to park a wagon between 12 and 18 you would need a trap to protect the passenger line through 18 . Positioning the trap to ensure that a derailed wagon would stay clear of the turnout might mean there wasn't enough room for the wagon. However in model form you can bend the rules. Don Of course if you had locked out the passenger line while shunting you could place a wagon in there. That would work, with 18 and the trap forming a crossover. In real life 12 would have been hand worked anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 I did have a trap between 12 and 18 but was advised to take it out. It didn't leave enough room to spot a wagon anyway. I'm coming around to the view that 12 and 18 are a crossover. That's one lever less. It's all compromise. 13 and 15 are going to have hand pulls next to them on the layout and therefore wouldn't have a lever in the box. In model form they have a point motor and therefore need a switch. It does make trying to replicate a box problematic and therefore you can only do something that looks like a box lever frame. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Presumably, if 12 and 18 are a crossover, then ground signals 11 and 17 are also linked on the same lever? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Presumably, if 12 and 18 are a crossover, then ground signals 11 and 17 are also linked on the same lever? I wouldn't have thought so Chris. They are analogous to discs 8 and 9 on the Bodmin North diagram I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 With the recent arrival of the green wire I can now report that the main track feed wiring on board 2 is complete. Just the tortoise point motor to add and wire in to the 8-way block, and the interconnect socket to add in on to the end of all the wire tail ends. Insert point motor here... (The 8-way chocolate block in the middle is waiting to feed the tortoise point motor. The 12 loose wire tails are waiting for a 12-way interconnect - 2 red, 7 black, 2 blue, 1 green.) Right, grey paint tin 2. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Presumably, if 12 and 18 are a crossover, then ground signals 11 and 17 are also linked on the same lever?By "linked" do you mean by interlocking, rather than meaning pulled by the same lever? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 By "linked" do you mean by interlocking, rather than meaning pulled by the same lever?I think I meant pulled by the same lever. In my period all the ground signals on the real Bodmin North are pulled by separate levers. The engine release at the end was worked by a local ground frame. Interestingly the ground frame had 3 levers. 1 was released by lever 18 in the main box. Pulling 1 unlocked 2 and 3. 2 pulled the crossover. 3 originally pulled both ground signals but was taken out of use and spare (with the ground signals removed) at some stage in the 50s. Trying to find where I had this from... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Dodgy ground as (when it comes to signalling) I'm in the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category, but I'd have thought not. I'd expect a separate lever for the ground signals. Presumably you get away with only having one lever for both discs in your Bodmin North example because it was worked one loco in steam? Otherwise couldn't you theoretically signal two trains to collide on the crossover? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Dodgy ground as (when it comes to signalling) I'm in the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category, but I'd have thought not. I'd expect a separate lever for the ground signals. Presumably you get away with only having one lever for both discs in your Bodmin North example because it was worked one loco in steam? Otherwise couldn't you theoretically signal two trains to collide on the crossover?That's what I meant, 1 lever for the two points, another lever for the two ground signals. I too am on dodgy ground knowledge-wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Board 3. All greyed out. Bored of grey now. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 Tomorrow night's job is to mark on the track plan and make a start on the wiring. It's all getting a bit tedious now... Thank god it's not a big round round I'm building myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2018 I did have a trap between 12 and 18 but was advised to take it out. It didn't leave enough room to spot a wagon anyway. I'm coming around to the view that 12 and 18 are a crossover. That's one lever less. It's all compromise. 13 and 15 are going to have hand pulls next to them on the layout and therefore wouldn't have a lever in the box. In model form they have a point motor and therefore need a switch. It does make trying to replicate a box problematic and therefore you can only do something that looks like a box lever frame. It is surely normal to have the ground signals either end of a crossover on different levers so the movement can only be signalled in one direction at a time. The exception of course would be non independent ground signals which were worked by the turnout linkage, these would of course require no lever in the frame and in model form could be worked by extra contacts on the point motor of the lever that operates it. In respect of 13 and 15 if they would have been hand operated full size these are obvious candidates for local switches although that wouldn't suit you going by the previous comments. Given there closeness to the signal box and the double slip I think in your model you could make them box worked without it seeming out of place. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2018 Were ground signals to prevent the locos proceeding, and thus as important as their full size counterparts, or just a visual indication as to which route was set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Call for the Stationmaster, Beast & Signal Engineer.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 17, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2018 Call for the Stationmaster, Beast & Signal Engineer.... Good idea as I'm lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2018 Were ground signals to prevent the locos proceeding, and thus as important as their full size counterparts, or just a visual indication as to which route was set? The early non independent ground signals were just to indicate the way the turnout was set but railway signalling was always improving and in a busy terminus it could cause confusion so ground signals proper were introduced which could be worked independently. Not all possible routes were always signalled there was always the option of the signalman giving a flag signal to a driver although this had to be used with care. Then there came the double signals two ground signals on the same post one above the other Here is a modelled example http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1131/entry-16635-twin-miniature-arm-ground-signal/ Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 17, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2018 Call for the Stationmaster, Beast & Signal Engineer.... Beacon lit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2018 Beacon lit. I think that Mike is on the case. He has rated one or two earlier posts so it probably working his way through. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted January 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2018 Were ground signals to prevent the locos proceeding, and thus as important as their full size counterparts, or just a visual indication as to which route was set? Discourage, persuade, instruct locomotives not to proceed but 50 Tons or more of locomotive wont be prevented by a little ground frame casting. Just an observation Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Call for the Stationmaster, Beast & Signal Engineer.... Evenin' all - emergency signal received some time back but other things on the go since then so I'm ratherr late to the party, sorry. Ground frame worked crossover - no need for signals of any sort in most situations, especially engine run round crossovers - the levers are next to the points, the bloke working the levers can see (and should check) that the points are over properly, engine moves on a hand signal. Signalbox worked engine release crossover - ground signal or points indicator provided but normally only on the line from which the loco will move to do the run round, i.e. the platform line in this case. PS What happened at Bodmin North? Looks from JH's drawing that at one time ground signals might have been provided (contractors were always keen to make money and that included signalling contractors) the GF worked those ground signals and according to George Pryer's diagram it was a push/pull lever (confirmed by a look at the lever quadrant in Post No.6311 above). In reality somebody no doubt eventually cottoned on that having the signals was a waste of time and lamp oil and they were removed and the lever became a spare and was accordingly painted white. The odd thing about the ground frame was that it had the only pushlpull lever at Bodmin North, all the other ground signals were - somewhat unusually for the LSWR - worked by separate levers. The lever normally stood centrally in the frame and was pulled to operate one of the ground signals (the one in the siding) and pushed to operate the other. N.B. For his Spamship - if you intend to add point rodding you should be aware that the ground frame was mechanically released so there was a. single point d leading to it from the signalbox. Edited January 18, 2018 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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