GWR Toad Brake vans

[Welchester]

I'd settle for a red lamp case on the uncovered end.

 

Surely the red lamp could be on either end, depending which way round the van was coupled to the train. I think it's been established on another thread that they weren't regularly turned, and so would be run in both directions.

[Ozexpatriate]

Surely the red lamp could be on either end, depending which way round the van was coupled to the train.

Yes. (I voted for fully directional lamps and side-markers.)

[Neal Ball]

Because I am DCC illiterate I cannot comment, but as for direction, the lights could be controlled with diodes(?) which would give white one way and red the other. The issue of some being off would have to be controlled by switches....or for the literate one's, probably with a number on their DCC controller

 

Khris

 

It would seem the easiest way to control the different lights by using DCC - DC would be tricky. - Given I model in DCC I might have slanted the question!

 

Don't know how popular the Brentford branch is for modelling [http://www.gwr.org.uk/nobrentford.html] but I'm trying to find out about the Toads that went along it.  I'm guessing that there would have been a variety as most would have arrived from somewhere along the mainline.

This thread is turning out to be a fount of information so hope it continues a while yet and, hopefully, I'll end up with a couple more Toads that will fit the bill.

A Southall 16 Ton Goods Brake Van. Built in 1889 to diagram AA3. http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=667444

 

Polly

 

OMG - another option now!

 

Polly thanks for the link to the Brentford branch, which I had not seen before... I can see a diorama coming on here! - Three Bridges and Trumpers Halt......

 

 The most likely candidates for Brentford would have been one of the "Acton" 13t toads (AA7) - another candidate for a RTR?

 

12 vans were built 1898 (lot number 206) and given running numbers 56985-56996, they were built specifically to operate in the London area where the space in headshunts was at a premium and where train lengths (loads) were light. With a 9ft wheelbase and only 16ft o/h they were comparatively dinky up against the 20t. All were allocated to Acton though likely to be seen over GW rails elsewhere in London.

 

There is a good 7mm kit from the Connoisseur stable (though sadly lacking a sold floor and designed in compensation).

 

Thanks for the info Kenton.

 

Another request further up the trail was for a AA13 - that has been added to the poll, together with AA7

 

Regards,

Edited March 27, 2013 by Neal Ball

[57xx]

Interesting to see the number of requests for working lights is so low. Obviously not as popular an idea as I thought. :-(

 

 

I voted for the simplest options that would give a decent model at a realistic price. Fancy bits like DCC lighting would limited the potential market IMO.

[southern42]

Now here's a Toad to model:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/8473376198/

[Neal Ball]

Now here's a Toad to model:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/8473376198/

 

Possibly an AA23 BR built example

[southern42]

Possibly an AA23 BR built example

 

Many thanks, Neal. That's helped me to confirm a similar example in G.W.R. Wagons before 1948 vol.2, Cheona Publications (2009):

Plate No. 102, No. 68480 to Diagram AA23 (photo 2001, Dean Forest Railway).

[The Stationmaster]

Now here's a Toad to model:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/8473376198/

Depends on the date of the period modelled Polly.  That one is branded 'For Engineers Use Only' and the 1965 date suggests that it would indeed have no longer been in traffic use anyway as that was (I'm reasonably sure) the year the ban came in.  Some fitted ones were subsequently branded 'London Division Fitted Head Only' while unfitted ones were dumped on the engineers, presumably for use as messvans.

[Coach bogie]

Here is the 16 Ton AA3 from K's. One benefit if the RTR boys were to pick this one up is the body is common to the25 Ton  AA1 6 wheeler, or a conversion opportunity.

 

As mentioned above, like others, I am a great fan of the old K's. It really captures the look of the short 16 Tonner in my opinion.

 

If anyone wants to invest £4.99 in a K's there is one here

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KS-MODEL-DIE-CAST-METAL-GUARDS-VAN-/230953363201?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35c5e4a701

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Neal Ball]

Here is the 16 Ton AA3 from K's. One benefit if the RTR boys were to pick this one up is the body is common to the25 Ton  AA1 6 wheeler, or a conversion opportunity.

 

As mentioned above, like others, I am a great fan of the old K's. It really captures the look of the short 16 Tonner in my opinion.

 

If anyone wants to invest £4.99 in a K's there is one here

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks Mike, that will shortly be winging it's way to Hove!

 

Selection of Toads here: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan

 

Regards

[Neal Ball]

I have just sent details of this Poll and the Poll regarding GWR Toplight carriages to Bachmann, via the collectors club. Here's hoping!

[Neal Ball]

I have had a reply from Bachmann, sadly they do not have any plans at the moment to do new Toad brake vans :-(

 

Think we need some tactical lobbying here!

[Coach bogie]

I have had a reply from Bachmann, sadly they do not have any plans at the moment to do new Toad brake vans :-(

 

Think we need some tactical lobbying here!

Or commission one yourself.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Neal Ball]

Or commission one yourself.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Interesting idea Mike, but I ave no idea how to go about it..... And I suspect do not have deep enough pockets...... Although I do like the idea!

[Coach bogie]

Interesting idea Mike, but I ave no idea how to go about it..... And I suspect do not have deep enough pockets...... Although I do like the idea!

 

I cannot give specific figures but much will depend on customers level of input and how exclusive, ie, does manufacturer have right to continue production after a period of time. Once decision on prototype has been made, research/plans photos etc will be required. If manufacturer is to source then cost goes up. Research is often outsourced and is not free.

 

Bachmann appear to be the fiirm most interested in one offs. A email to Barwell would be the starting point.

 

In my opinion, due to so many variations/liveries etc for a brakevan, a commissioned plastic kit through the likes of Parkside, supported by commissioned transfers from CCT or POW would not only be less expensive but allow options. As mentioned above the 16 ton shares a body with the 6 wheel 25t. Both underframes would be cost effective in a kit compared to rtr. 3mm and 2mm boys commission for Parkside already.

 

If you supply your own masters price comes down again. With 3D imaging masters can be produced for much less than the old brass patterns. I have a friend's son who has just trialed a bogie master in 3D for me at no cost as he used the experience as part of his degree course and he got it right first time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Neal Ball]

I cannot give specific figures but much will depend on customers level of input and how exclusive, ie, does manufacturer have right to continue production after a period of time. Once decision on prototype has been made, research/plans photos etc will be required. If manufacturer is to source then cost goes up. Research is often outsourced and is not free.

 

Bachmann appear to be the fiirm most interested in one offs. A email to Barwell would be the starting point.

 

In my opinion, due to so many variations/liveries etc for a brakevan, a commissioned plastic kit through the likes of Parkside, supported by commissioned transfers from CCT or POW would not only be less expensive but allow options. As mentioned above the 16 ton shares a body with the 6 wheel 25t. Both underframes would be cost effective in a kit compared to rtr. 3mm and 2mm boys commission for Parkside already.

 

If you supply your own masters price comes down again. With 3D imaging masters can be produced for much less than the old brass patterns. I have a friend's son who has just trialed a bogie master in 3D for me at no cost as he used the experience as part of his degree course and he got it right first time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks Mike really interesting. I have already sent an email to Bachmann!

[Neal Ball]

 .......

..... commissioned plastic kit through the likes of Parkside, supported by commissioned transfers from CCT or POW would not only be less expensive but allow options.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Would anyone be interested in a commissioned kit for the AA19 van? In sufficient numbers, maybe that could be a route to a new van....

 

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Neal

[Garethp8873]

Would anyone be interested in a commissioned kit for the AA19 van? In sufficient numbers, maybe that could be a route to a new van....

 

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Neal

 

Neal,

 

If it was 3D Printed I would be interested. After having seen the potential with the Pollen C and E that have been done using 3D Printing this maybe the right way to go with the AA19 Toad.

 

Garethp8873.

[The Fatadder]

So long as it didn't have moulded hand rails and was a sensible price I'd be interested

(I wouldn't want to be paying close to the frogmore brass prices for a plastic kit)

[Miss Prism]

Given the existence of the RTR AA19 from both Hornby and Bachmann, and the ubitiquous AA19-ish kit from Ratio, I can't see any commercial mileage in a new AA19 plastic kit or 3D print. The markets for the shorter 16' AA3 and the the outside-framed AA16 aren't going to be large either, with the various etched brass or whitemetal versions still available. The only significant plastic kit gap remains AA11/13/15/18, for which a multi-part kit would I think be viable, but even that is going to appeal only to people for whom correct detail on comparatively minor aspects is important, and who aren't prepared to do some work on the Ratio. (The AA11s were few in number.)

[Neal Ball]

Neal,

 

If it was 3D Printed I would be interested. After having seen the potential with the Pollen C and E that have been done using 3D Printing this maybe the right way to go with the AA19 Toad.

 

Garethp8873.

 

I must admit not being able to get my head round 3d printing!

 

 

So long as it didn't have moulded hand rails and was a sensible price I'd be interested

(I wouldn't want to be paying close to the frogmore brass prices for a plastic kit)

 

 

Definitely

 

 

Given the existence of the RTR AA19 from both Hornby and Bachmann, and the ubitiquous AA19-ish kit from Ratio, I can't see any commercial mileage in a new AA19 plastic kit or 3D print. The markets for the shorter 16' AA3 and the the outside-framed AA16 aren't going to be large either, with the various etched brass or whitemetal versions still available. The only significant plastic kit gap remains AA11/13/15/18, for which a multi-part kit would I think be viable, but even that is going to appeal only to people for whom correct detail on comparatively minor aspects is important, and who aren't prepared to do some work on the Ratio. (The AA11s were few in number.)

Variety would be very good.... But there seems (strangely) to be a lack of desire at the moment to produce an rtr model...... A well known kit company is loathed to produce one, on the basis that it will then come out in rtr.

 

The same kit company is happy to do an AA19 as a commission (possibly happy)

[OnTheBranchline]

The Bachmann Toad is fine with me, I just want more names to be released.

[Coach bogie]

The Bachmann Toad is fine with me, I just want more names to be released.

 

You can always change them.

 

http://www.powsides.co.uk/www.powsides.co.uk/info.php?p=9&cat=168692

 

Sheet ID 135

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Garethp8873]

Sheet 135 is good but to me they need to do names which incorporate all 26 letters in my opinion.

[Coach bogie]

Another K's 16T kit just listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ks-Keyser-GWR-20T-Toad-Kit-/400510515865?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d40497a99

 

 

Mike Wiltshire