What have you done with your Keyser kit

[Penlan]

Well my K's Hudswell Clark is a bit long in the tooth now, I bought it when it first came on the market.  The frames were opened out for EM, plus some apertures in the frames etc.,
Needs a bit of TLC at present.
The footplate stays with the chassis, the top seperates, thus the mismatch of parts to be linked together... (Photo from the 'Barry Ten' collection).

 

PS - I must get some more photo's of this loco.

 

[Ruston]

Thanks for the replies. Having now seen a photo of one that has been built I'll probably go for it but I'll have to get the price down. A new motor and wheels are going to be needed by what's been said but it will be a great addition to the fleet of typical late Victorian contractors locos that I'm building for my next layout.

[hayfield]

Even if new wheels and motor are 

 

Thanks for the replies. Having now seen a photo of one that has been built I'll probably go for it but I'll have to get the price down. A new motor and wheels are going to be needed by what's been said but it will be a great addition to the fleet of typical late Victorian contractors locos that I'm building for my next layout.

Even if new wheels and motor are needed, Just look at the price of new kits for example a new small Southeastern Finecast model comes in at £90 without motor, wheels and gears. On the second hand market these locos are sought after and fetch good money

 

2 packs of Gibson wheels about £12 ish, there were plastic spoke version of Romford wheels, Roxey do them but unsure if they do the size you require

 

Mashima motors fetch a premium now, but good alternatives on eBay now. Gear boxes do vary in price, but one stage Highlevel boxes are not to expensive

 

But you never know the K's items may work and will be at nil cost

[hayfield]

Well my K's Hudswell Clark is a bit long in the tooth now, I bought it when it first came on the market.  The frames were opened out for EM, plus some apertures in the frames etc.,

Needs a bit of TLC at present.

The footplate stays with the chassis, the top seperates, thus the mismatch of parts to be linked together... (Photo from the 'Barry Ten' collection).

 

PS - I must get some more photo's of this loco.

 

Barry Ten - Cardiff 08 - Hudswell Clark Loco.JPG

 

 

The simplest EM conversion I have done is to stick 30 thou black plasticard to the chassis sides, one at a time and drill axle holes as you go

[Nick Holliday]

Ambis Engineering do a simple etch for the chassis for the Hudswell Clark loco, but it lacks certain bits which have to be supplied from the K's kit, such as cylinders and motion parts.

[Ruston]

I bought it - for 30 quid. It's all there, untouched, in its box and everything shrink-wrapped to cards.

 

I expect I'll end up using the running plate and everything above it; the frames are very basic and the motion looks a bit chunky. The wheels look OK but the motor looks like something out of a Scalextric car, so I don't think I'll be using that and as it has some sort of built-in frame to take the axle and gear, a new gearbox will be needed too.

 

Still, it's not bad for the money - some time scratchbuilding frames, cylinders and motion, sixteen quid for a High Level 'box and 99p for a replacement motor should see it right.

[Bucoops]

I sold a new unused vintage motor for £15 recently - a D11. That's half your kit price back towards a modern replacement.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Bucoops

[hayfield]

I bought it - for 30 quid. It's all there, untouched, in its box and everything shrink-wrapped to cards.

 

I expect I'll end up using the running plate and everything above it; the frames are very basic and the motion looks a bit chunky. The wheels look OK but the motor looks like something out of a Scalextric car, so I don't think I'll be using that and as it has some sort of built-in frame to take the axle and gear, a new gearbox will be needed too.

 

Still, it's not bad for the money - some time scratchbuilding frames, cylinders and motion, sixteen quid for a High Level 'box and 99p for a replacement motor should see it right.

 

 

£30 is excellent value, just look at what some want for their kits, both badly built or untouched

 

The chassis, wheels and motors were both of their time and built to the cheapest standards to keep costs down

[5050]

I sold a new unused vintage motor for £15 recently - a D11. That's half your kit price back towards a modern replacement.

I doubt that you would get that much for a K's 'plastic' motor.  If so - I'm a millionaire!

[hayfield]

I doubt that you would get that much for a K's 'plastic' motor.  If so - I'm a millionaire!

 

Seen them go for a tenner in the past, I guess if either you need to replace one or as a collector need one to complete a kit, you pay what is required.

 

Ruston, one way of reducing the cost is to sell on the wheels and motor + gears, might even make enough to buy the gearbox

[Ruston]

Seen them go for a tenner in the past, I guess if either you need to replace one or as a collector need one to complete a kit, you pay what is required.

 

Ruston, one way of reducing the cost is to sell on the wheels and motor + gears, might even make enough to buy the gearbox

I don't think I'll need to consult my bank manager before ordering a new gearbox but I will sell if anyone here wants them. I really can't be bothered with the rigmarole of setting up a paypal account to sell them on ebay, not to mention giving my bank details to some faceless U.S. corporation. I'm still very much a folding money with pictures of H.M. The Queen on sort of person.

[Bucoops]

Oh ok they're the equivalent of tesco value motors are they? 

[MarkC]

Oh ok they're the equivalent of tesco value motors are they? 

Nice comparison!

[hayfield]

Oh ok they're the equivalent of tesco value motors are they? 

K's kits were made at a time where RTR loco's were few in prototype covered and most kits were both expensive and required parts (wheels, motors, gears etc) being sourced elsewhere or used RTR chassis, also it still was a time of austerity,where money was tight. Tools were limited hence glued and screwed construction was the favoured method of that era

 

K's came along with a cheap complete kit, initially with good (for the time) pre-quartered wheels and bullet proof open framed motors. Possibly ahead of their time K's moved into making plastic parts for their kits along with changing their wagon and coach kits to plastic, etched brass coupling and connecting rods were also included. In theory the idea of a more modern motor and plastic centred wheels (which the likes of Gibsons and Slaters still use) was a good idea, but the motors were of a poor design and the wheels suffered with being taken on and off. The latter HMP2 motor included an in built motor mount

 

Having said all this some of the motors do work reasonably well, and if care is taken the wheels are fine. In short the motors were a disaster, I do have a set of the latter wheels(with no screws into the axles, which may prove better 

 

Like the famous Ratners faux pas, Tesco's beans opened would last longer than a K's HMP2 motor 

[Coach bogie]

 

Like the famous Ratners faux pas, Tesco's beans opened would last longer than a K's HMP2 motor 

It all depends what you put the HMP2. I liken it to the DS10. Fine in a small locomotive such as the milestones Lion, 48XX. A GWR Aberdare/mogul was pushing it, but what were they thinking as a chosen power plant for a Garrett or Princess? Regardless of manufacturer, I always put the biggest motor I can get in.

 

I recall Mike Sharman buying large quantities of the small K's motors for his 1800's locos. He managed to make them work fine, but a Crampton with 5 light coaches requires much less power than a Jubilee with 10 on.

 

Most of my K's fleet, and I currently run 18 ex K's, have the original large twin ended shaft motor. They work fine and have the necessary power for the long trains I expect of them. The Titfield Thuderbolt Lion has had a HP2M motor in it since building and works fine with the one sleeper wagon + brake van expected of it. No issues at all.

 

I recall my father building a K's Garrett for a friend with 2 x HP2M motors (only one was supplied) - what a farce. It could just pull itself along. Replaced with big Japanese motor gearbox and worked well (and still does).

 

This K's grange with original motor has just pulled 36 wagons up a steep incline without any issue, no overheating. The mogul and dean goods visible have a same original motor and can haul the same train.

 

Right tools for the job in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Worsdell forever]

...The Titfield Thuderbolt Lion has had a HP2M motor in it since building and works fine with the one sleeper wagon + brake van expected of it. No issues at all...

 

But most of the time the train will be propelled by the residents of Titfield...

[Golden Fleece 30]

It all depends what you put the HMP2. I liken it to the DS10. Fine in a small locomotive such as the milestones Lion, 48XX. A GWR Aberdare/mogul was pushing it, but what were they thinking as a chosen power plant for a Garrett or Princess? Regardless of manufacturer, I always put the biggest motor I can get in.

 

I recall Mike Sharman buying large quantities of the small K's motors for his 1800's locos. He managed to make them work fine, but a Crampton with 5 light coaches requires much less power than a Jubilee with 10 on.

 

Most of my K's fleet, and I currently run 18 ex K's, have the original large twin ended shaft motor. They work fine and have the necessary power for the long trains I expect of them. The Titfield Thuderbolt Lion has had a HP2M motor in it since building and works fine with the one sleeper wagon + brake van expected of it. No issues at all.

DSCF1478.JPG

 

I recall my father building a K's Garrett for a friend with 2 x HP2M motors (only one was supplied) - what a farce. It could just pull itself along. Replaced with big Japanese motor gearbox and worked well (and still does).

 

This K's grange with original motor has just pulled 36 wagons up a steep incline without any issue, no overheating. The mogul and dean goods visible have a same original motor and can haul the same train.

K's Grange.jpg

 

Right tools for the job in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Very nice layout, was it standard practice to have a signal to stop/enter a goods shed?

 

Garry

[Coach bogie]

Very nice layout, was it standard practice to have a signal to stop/enter a goods shed?

 

Garry

The signal is for the goods line the mogul is on, protecting a trailing crossover from the main avoiding line.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[hayfield]

It all depends what you put the HMP2. I liken it to the DS10. Fine in a small locomotive such as the milestones Lion, 48XX. A GWR Aberdare/mogul was pushing it, but what were they thinking as a chosen power plant for a Garrett or Princess? Regardless of manufacturer, I always put the biggest motor I can get in.

 

I recall Mike Sharman buying large quantities of the small K's motors for his 1800's locos. He managed to make them work fine, but a Crampton with 5 light coaches requires much less power than a Jubilee with 10 on.

 

Most of my K's fleet, and I currently run 18 ex K's, have the original large twin ended shaft motor. They work fine and have the necessary power for the long trains I expect of them. The Titfield Thuderbolt Lion has had a HP2M motor in it since building and works fine with the one sleeper wagon + brake van expected of it. No issues at all.

DSCF1478.JPG

 

I recall my father building a K's Garrett for a friend with 2 x HP2M motors (only one was supplied) - what a farce. It could just pull itself along. Replaced with big Japanese motor gearbox and worked well (and still does).

 

This K's grange with original motor has just pulled 36 wagons up a steep incline without any issue, no overheating. The mogul and dean goods visible have a same original motor and can haul the same train.

K's Grange.jpg

 

Right tools for the job in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

Mike

 

Thanks for adding a new twist to the HMP motor thoughts, which goes a long way to explaining why some locos do work with these motors

 

 The older K's Mk 1 & 2 motors and the earlier motor (with body screws) all worked out of the box, the newer HMP2's did tend to overheat quickly in most cases and you may well have put your finger on the problem in asking them to do more than they are capable to do, being the issue.

 

Their idea of plastic centred wheels in theory was a good idea, but perhaps leaving enough room for the screw fixing may have made the D part of the hole too weak, I have a later (or was it an earlier) set of wheels with a plain D shaped axle and no screws in my collection just waiting to be tried

 

Anyway my plan is to fit proper (modern) gearboxes rather than motor mounts in future

[MarkC]

Even the old Ks Mark 1 & 2 motors were a little hit and miss - I have a couple still going strong after almost 40 years. Others fell apart fairly quickly after being placed into service - I suspect that the epoxy used wasn't the best, or their mixing techniques left something to be desired

[Horsetan]

....the newer HMP2's did tend to overheat quickly in most cases and you may well have put your finger on the problem in asking them to do more than they are capable ...

The HP2Ms had no bearings as such for the motor spindle - they revolved in a plastic block at the gear cradle end, and a weird bush at the other end. The one I had in 1985 ran fast and very hot just by itself with no load. It would have been the perfect accompaniment to the MTK kits....

[hayfield]

Even the old Ks Mark 1 & 2 motors were a little hit and miss - I have a couple still going strong after almost 40 years. Others fell apart fairly quickly after being placed into service - I suspect that the epoxy used wasn't the best, or their mixing techniques left something to be desired

 

I had one do this, a quick spot of super glue was all that was needed. Another motor had one of the side plates not quite in the correct place (either very slightly too far forward or back) anyway worked well despite this. Has more issues with DS10's failing

[hayfield]

I had one do this, a quick spot of super glue was all that was needed. Another motor had one of the side plates not quite in the correct place (either very slightly too far forward or back) anyway worked well despite this. Has more issues with DS10's failing

 

Good idea in principal for smaller locos, but badly executed. Having bearings either end may have solved the issues

 

I must own up to liking the plastic 8 ba bolts which were useful in some cases

[John_Hughes]

I agree that K's wheels weren't all bad by any means, though the D-profile axles were certainly not a good idea.. I've managed to get a few sets to work very well by using a jig to get the quartering right and then putting a spot ot Loctite to secure them to the axles.

 

That said, the originals as included with the 14XX kit when it first came out, although touted as ready-mounted and -quartered, often had a fair bit of wobble built in, though the rear carrying wheels always seem to have been fine. Again the problems were down to sloppiness in the manufacture and a serious lack of quality control, I'm afraid.

[hayfield]

I agree that K's wheels weren't all bad by any means, though the D-profile axles were certainly not a good idea.. I've managed to get a few sets to work very well by using a jig to get the quartering right and then putting a spot ot Loctite to secure them to the axles.

 

That said, the originals as included with the 14XX kit when it first came out, although touted as ready-mounted and -quartered, often had a fair bit of wobble built in, though the rear carrying wheels always seem to have been fine. Again the problems were down to sloppiness in the manufacture and a serious lack of quality control, I'm afraid.

 

 

John

 

Agreed, but they were of their time and worked on Peco track