Freemo Extravaganza

[roundhouse]

We didn't do badly on train length - i'd set a limit of 1000' in Ops, which equated to about 15 to 17 cars which the staging runs and I think occasionally the Fort Myers one reached, most of the other workings were restricted by runround lengths - I think that was plenty for carload traffic (and occasionally too much for the Fort Myers turn!)

We did double up on operators on one turn From Dale yard into Fort Myers to deal with a rather large switch list which was fun in its self. Good job we had a few spare locos in the yard.

 

Didnt help with me not building a planned 6 inch extension to make use of the  headshunt at the far end!!

[Andy Reichert]

I could try to bash up a street running section, or maybe a bit of bayou action for the next one. Single piece of HO flex track shouldn't cost me much.

 

US Public Street running usually requires girder rail or double guarded T rail by local and other ordinances as well as to prevent legal and maintenance costs going through the roof. .

 

Andy

[PaulRhB]

How about a standard size and font name printed out to pin up on each side of each module so everyone knows what to look for?

 

It didnt take long though to work out where everything was.

 

Yep I was think of that for next time and yes once you knew it was easy, fortunately I'd saved the plan on the phone so after a couple of checks I was away.

 

I'll put a leave form in early!

[trisonic]

Brilliant stuff, chaps!

 

Best, Pete.

[Parthia27]

We didn't do badly on train length - i'd set a limit of 1000' in Ops, which equated to about 15 to 17 cars which the staging runs and I think occasionally the Fort Myers one reached, most of the other workings were restricted by runround lengths - I think that was plenty for carload traffic (and occasionally too much for the Fort Myers turn!)

I spent a good few minutes looking at Dale Yard, very clever as to how the length can be flexed by adding / removing intermediate modules between the symmetrical end modules.

 

Total length looked to be about 16'?

 

To give an idea of what could be operated I very occasionally get out my secret stash of HO Unitrack when her in doors is away and build a 18' x 5' oval which has a 14' passing siding. This allows me to easily run a pair of 12 car coal trains with a pair of big SDs up front. Nothing like the real thing or a layout but good enough to make me believe I'm in the Powder River Basin every now and again :-).

 

For Freemo two end points or reversing loops with a decent radius could make the operation of unit or manifest trains possible. Don't know what this would require in terms of additional boosters etc. I'd love to have a go at such but my problem other than fitness is storage. 4' x 18" Extruded Foam boards faced with 6mm ply have seriously crossed my mind, dimensionally ok to fit through the loft hatch, light enough to lift, my only concern would be the strength of the board ends. Legs would be required which are not too hard to knock up. Scenery could be basic, and other than some small yard buildings and a blitzkrieg with ballast and static grass it could be made to a good standard fairly quickly. I'm off to break out the rail planning software to see what could be done :-).

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Northpoint]

Has anybody thought of the "loads in/empties out" scheme for a module?

 

Scenic break in the middle and, say, power station one side and coal mine the other. The unit train runs continuously and Martyn has to dispatch all the other traffic to include meets with the two coal trains.

 

Just a thought....

[PaulRhB]

Thought yes but where do I store a fourth layout?

I've got a 30 unit coal train but it also means either a big return loop or an oval and crawling in and out to access the other side.

[Parthia27]

Good idea Nick, you don't even need to make such industries complex. Seem to remember seeing a 12' set of HO Freemo modules in the US somewhere with 10 car rock train using old coal hoppers was serviced by a bucket loader. This was a single dead end siding. Train was top 'n tailed by UP Dash-9s and at the other end of it's journey simply ran over a set up like an old coal drop with a conveyor served silo underneath, again on a single ended siding. Seen similar thing near Anchorage in Alaska served by ARR GP40-2's :-).

[trisonic]

Howzabout a BNSF “Boeing" train? You could have it derail and drop the 737 bodies into a river?

Sorry! Grabs coat and departs pronto....

 

Seriously, wished I had been there.

 

Best, Pete.

[roundhouse]

Has anybody thought of the "loads in/empties out" scheme for a module?

 

Scenic break in the middle and, say, power station one side and coal mine the other. The unit train runs continuously and Martyn has to dispatch all the other traffic to include meets with the two coal trains.

 

Just a thought....

Imagine having to load and empty each car. We have enough problems with just one car on ROUNDHOUSE with the coal load going everywhere!!!

 

Ian

[roundhouse]

Howzabout a BNSF “Boeing" train? You could have it derail and drop the 737 bodies into a river?

Sorry! Grabs coat and departs pronto....

 

Seriously, wished I had been there.

 

Best, Pete.

At the river location or Freemo???

 

Mike has made a loaded flatcar in N scale that we run on Santa Barbara. I wonder if I can persuade him to do a few in HO scale. He likes that sort of challenge.

 

Ian

[Parthia27]

Other prototypes that come to mind are something similar to the 'Gas Local' on the MRL, often short consist headed by an SD35 and an SD70ACe. Runs from a refinery siding to a fuel distribution facility, both of which are simple to model. Refuse trains are another idea, bare-table movements, somewhere near Chicago isn't there a molten iron flask train top and tailed by a pair of GP15s that traverses a short stretch of mainline? Sure there are many other simple operations like this that could be modelled.

[Adrian Wintle]

At the river location or Freemo???

 

Mike has made a loaded flatcar in N scale that we run on Santa Barbara. I wonder if au can persuade him to do a few in HO scale. He likes that sort of challenge.

 

Ian

 

Did he use a 1/200 scale aircraft kit for the N-scale one? I'd think finding a suitable kit that would work with 1/87 would be an issue fo an HO one.

 

It looks like you had fun with that setup. The Freemo guys over here always seem to be enjoying themselves.

 

Adrian

[bxmoore]

Longer unit trains would, sadly, only glue up the layout, as on the real railroad, there's miles of plain track for them to be "out of the way on", whilst locals use the main line to switch.  The lack of any ability on most modules to "keep off the main whilst switching" would then result in the unit train (even if it's only two big SD's and 25 cars) probably having to stop several times, blocking at least one switching location, and probably more, due to the lack of "big space" between modules.

 

Also, and probably fatally, the amount of boards you need to build, carry and assemble to turn even a modestly-sized unit train would be beyond the abilities of a single person. You'd need two return loops, and in HO, that becomes HUGE.

 

We did the work in Plymouth a few years ago in respect of this, and it became obvious (to us at least) that unless you had BIG space, a lot of storage and a lot of money, it was "A bridge too far".

 

Brian. 

[roundhouse]

Did he use a 1/200 scale aircraft kit for the N-scale one? I'd think finding a suitable kit that would work with 1/87 would be an issue fo an HO one.

 

It looks like you had fun with that setup. The Freemo guys over here always seem to be enjoying themselves.

 

Adrian

He did use one of those clip together planes, I think a 767 body . It is fitted loose on the flatcar so occasionally we do have accidents where it falls off the flatcar.

I am pretty sure that he mentioned it would be tricky in HO scale.

 

Ian

[Northpoint]

Longer unit trains would, sadly, only glue up the layout, as on the real railroad, there's miles of plain track for them to be "out of the way on", whilst locals use the main line to switch.  The lack of any ability on most modules to "keep off the main whilst switching" would then result in the unit train (even if it's only two big SD's and 25 cars) probably having to stop several times, blocking at least one switching location, and probably more, due to the lack of "big space" between modules.

 

Also, and probably fatally, the amount of boards you need to build, carry and assemble to turn even a modestly-sized unit train would be beyond the abilities of a single person. You'd need two return loops, and in HO, that becomes HUGE.

 

We did the work in Plymouth a few years ago in respect of this, and it became obvious (to us at least) that unless you had BIG space, a lot of storage and a lot of money, it was "A bridge too far".

 

Brian. 

 

Thanks for the input Brian and being the voice of reason! My original suggestion was partially tongue in cheek.

[PaulRhB]

But you could build a 20ft long yard on wheels you wheeled the coal train to the other end on

[Parthia27]

Longer unit trains would, sadly, only glue up the layout, as on the real railroad, there's miles of plain track for them to be "out of the way on", whilst locals use the main line to switch. The lack of any ability on most modules to "keep off the main whilst switching" would then result in the unit train (even if it's only two big SD's and 25 cars) probably having to stop several times, blocking at least one switching location, and probably more, due to the lack of "big space" between modules.

 

Also, and probably fatally, the amount of boards you need to build, carry and assemble to turn even a modestly-sized unit train would be beyond the abilities of a single person. You'd need two return loops, and in HO, that becomes HUGE.

 

We did the work in Plymouth a few years ago in respect of this, and it became obvious (to us at least) that unless you had BIG space, a lot of storage and a lot of money, it was "A bridge too far".

 

Brian.

You are correct Brian, the difference between UK and US Freemo is that our UK modules are based on small switching prototypes, in the US they seem to be replicas of mainline operations where each module is a small slice of a mainline. I'm not sure that even small unit sized trains would work whilst local crews have possession of a line. I'm sure that is why the Youtube clips show such trains at the beginning and end of each day :-).

 

I am seriously considering doing something in the 8 to 12' range that will have a reasonable passing siding and serve some type of small grain or feed mill off the mainline but switchable using a separate switching lead, done something on the laptop but I need to look at car lengths and practicalities as it must provide enough room for a crew to work.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Parthia27]

But you could build a 20ft long yard on wheels you wheeled the coal train to the other end on

LOL

 

My problem atm is that I am stuck at home, not able to work or model so my mind gets busy with these what if scenarios!

 

I only got to Armitage on Saturday because Mrs Clover was visiting a friend up the road and it was only for a few minutes.

 

The limitations of operating a modular layout probably only sink in when you actually do operate.

 

Think I'll stick to something simple when I'm able to get down to some building. Even building a single track module with some scenery would be good, I'd like to restart doing some RPM and such a module could also double as an outdoor photographic diorama.

[298]

I could try to bash up a street running section, or maybe a bit of bayou action for the next one. Single piece of HO flex track shouldn't cost me much.

  

US Public Street running usually requires girder rail or double guarded T rail by local and other ordinances as well as to prevent legal and maintenance costs going through the roof. .

 

Andy

Another problem with street running is any stretch needs some kind of convincing lead in and out, you can't just model a stretch of it without something like a grade crossing at the end and there is little point in designing a Standard for how the road would cross the baseboard join onto someone else's module. You would also struggle to hide a code 83 switch in the street without resorting to a completely new track system, which breaks away from the spirit of new-build modules.

 

However, I have a cunning plan...

[Talltim]

Why do you need to turn unit trains? Could you not just drop another set of units on the other end to do the return trip, assuming that the train is too long for any siding (in the US sense, i.e. runaround loop) ?

[PaulRhB]

I wouldn't say it was limited really, there was one fiendish job the short line approach meant more switching possibilities than a mainline layout unless you had a lot of local jobs. While it would be nice to see a coal train endlessly passing and some hotshot intermodals i think the restrictions on getting access to the central spine would slow down and therefore restrict the number of switching turns. Maybe fitting in a 20x 10 roundy to just run these on one corner for ambience might be fun but I think you need a layout in the order of Bruce Carpenters in a space twice the hall we had to intergrate it without slowing things down.

[Talltim]

I'm still thinking of ways to get some gradients into modules. I have an idea, but I also have a queue of other modules to build first!

[Glorious NSE]

Total length looked to be about 16'?

 

Yep - Neil originally built it as 8', it was then stretched to 16' (with the extra "track zero", as it was added next to track one!) - it's capable of being used as an 8', or 16', or a pair of stub end 8' yards.

[Glorious NSE]

Longer unit trains would, sadly, only glue up the layout, as on the real railroad, there's miles of plain track for them to be "out of the way on", whilst locals use the main line to switch.  The lack of any ability on most modules to "keep off the main whilst switching" would then result in the unit train (even if it's only two big SD's and 25 cars) probably having to stop several times, blocking at least one switching location, and probably more, due to the lack of "big space" between modules.

 

Also, and probably fatally, the amount of boards you need to build, carry and assemble to turn even a modestly-sized unit train would be beyond the abilities of a single person. You'd need two return loops, and in HO, that becomes HUGE.

 

We did the work in Plymouth a few years ago in respect of this, and it became obvious (to us at least) that unless you had BIG space, a lot of storage and a lot of money, it was "A bridge too far".

 

I think the practicality of building and transporting stuff is kinda important - but i'll repeat what I wrote up-thread, if you think you can build and transport it i'll try and use it.

 

Regarding switching/main track capacity, that's one of the challenges when you design the layout and the operating plan, with a finite selection of modules you have to do your best to build something that will remain (passably) fluid with the expected traffic - so modules that need an hour of intensive switching from the main track don't get located in the middle of your main line, and where you do have spurs on your main line, you can use Ops so that not every train needs to serve them all.

 

This time we managed something like 50' of main line with only two industry spurs on it, so there was no real issue with main line capacity - terminal capacity was a bigger challenge (and it would have been nice to have had space for a headshunt the far end of Dale yard) - but the layout at Emmery meant there was room to meet trains on the main, or hold them out of any of the three terminals for a few minutes when they were tied up with a train already working there. If we'd had a staging yard off both ends of that main line there would have been plenty of capacity for a through train or two to be running.

 

I think a happy mix is achievable, but it needs some care and attention when designing the layout, and if that potential is something that folk want, then thinking of that when designing "busier" modules also helps. Think in terms of the prototype - if they know they will have somewhere blocked for a long time to switch industries, they will try and feed those industries off a side track or the passing siding and not from the main line so the local can work without blocking the main. The double track standard could also be of use if you wanted smaller modules with more track capacity.

 

Not sure i'd want to guarantee that it'll always end up so well balanced!