RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2013 I don't know whether this is related to the Signal Box at Rochester or not but... I went to the Bluebell Railway on Saturday for the Model Railway weekend. Now silly me wasn't paying full attention (the fact I had my newly promoted Fiancee on my arm, and she wants an A4 Sir Nigel Gresley in blue but that's another story!!) BUT there was a stall at Sheffield Park (next to the snacks hut by the footbridge on the down platform) that was selling RTR, much at nice discounts as well as split from sets stuff etc which seemed to be very much in the style of the old Signal Box stands at the likes of Ally Pally etc only a bit smaller. The discount labels on the various RTR looked identical (I purchased a very nice discounted Bachmann green Class 37 and some ex set wagons) anyway whilst the fun and games was had trying to get a signal to the chip and pin machine I overhead a conversation between one of the stall holders and a gentleman stating that they had only just set up after the ModelZone implosion and that their website goes live next week.. Who were these people? I managed to mislay the card/paperwork they gave me (blame to soon to be wife!) Wondered if there is any connection here.... Just had a look at the receipt from them (stocked up on some N scale Farish wagons) Their name is Invicta Model Rail with an address in Sidcup. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2013 An interesting prediction, and most likely to have the biggest impact on the collector/modeller. However as they seem strongly motivated by price, then they will seek out the cheapest supplier (and there are enough posts in this topic to confirm that). But where will it leave the person who wants the smaller items for building a layout? Probably where we are already, with the need to buy on line or at shows. Ironically it's seeing what these items look like is as important as inspecting a RTR loco or rolling stock. What colour is that ballast, scatter, or whatever? Does the Will's bridge girder pack look like a LWR GCR bridge or what? How well are a particular make of whitemetal figures cast? Elsewhere on RMWeb members have bemoaned the loss of the traditional model shop. It's clear that modelling and retailing have changed and we are getting the market place that suits what the majority want. Modelling is now much more about having large collections of models (usually locos), the average spend is probably much higher than it was twenty or thirty years ago (as a percentage of disposable income), so price/discount, special editions, etc. are now one of the major factors in driving the marketplace. I think that this trend will continue, until we are left with a few large online retailers, some of whom will have a retail shop but who will be poorly sited for the majority of personal callers. Some local shops will continue where they can find low rental costs, etc. and also specialise in particular niche products that they can also sell online. Finally we will have to buy specialist products (kits, etc.) online from the manufacturer or through the larger shows. It's probably comparable to the loss of the village or local pub and the rise of Wetherspoons, cheap cr*p booze in supermarkets, the growth of the microbrewery and the local real ale pub with regular beer fests (like the Dove in Ipswich). Regrettably I have to agree with you - I think we are beginning to see some of the impact the deep discounters have wrought on our hobby although the malaise goes wider than that and isn't just down to video games but a different sort of outlook in society where it has become 'the thing' to have the latest in mobile devices as well as clothing becoming even more of a fashion & fad thing among a wider spread of the population. Thus 'disposable' income is not so available for hobby interests among a big section of society and in any case there is a far greater slice not interested in constructive (or should that be 'constructional'?) hobbies than used to be the case. So the market has shrunk and within what is left there is a vocal section demanding 'cheap' products and wanting the latest of everything - which by inference also has to be 'cheap'. The retailers who do survive thus have to either join in the discounting - at possible threat to the financial wellbeing of their business - or innovate and broaden their appeal in various ways. We all want paint and adhesives, probably kits and very likely components of various sorts but a lot of that might well involve widely spread stocks of low return items which still need stock control, ordering and storage. It leaves us buying from a very limited range of shops and exhibitions - although in doing the latter we might also be hurting the very shops we try to support? One thing I think is fairly certain in all of that and it is that shops - chain or not - will find it increasingly difficult to survive on high rental sites but they might, with the right marketing, be able to survive where premises cost less and if we continue to support them. Edit to correct typos - or did I really mean a 'bug' section of society? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linners Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Regrettably I have to agree with you - I think we are beginning to see some of the impact the deep discounters have wrought on our hobby although the malaise goes wider than that and isn't just down to video games but a different sort of outlook in society where it has become 'the thing' to have the latest in mobile devices as well as clothing becoming even more of a fashion & fad thing among a wider spread of the population. Thus 'disposable' income is not so available for hobby interests among a bug section of society and in any case there is a far greater slice not interested in constructive (or should that be 'constructional'?) hobbies than used to be the case. So the market has shrunk and within what is left there is vocal section demanding 'cheap' products and wanting the latest of everything - which by inference also has to be 'cheap'. The retailers who do survive thus have to either join in the discounting - at possible threat to the financial wellbeing of their business or innovate and broaden their appeal in various ways. We all want paint and adhesives, probably kits and very likely components of various sorts but a lot of that might well involve widely spread stocks of low return items which still need stock control, ordering and storage. It leaves us buying from a very limited range of shops and exhibitions - although in doing the latter we might also be hurting the very shops we try to support? One thing I think is fairly certain in all of that and it is that shops - chain or not - will find it increasingly difficult to survive on high rental sites but they might, with the right marketing, be able to survive where premises cost less and if we continue to support them. This is interesting? Who would want to start in the model shop business, especially in the current economic climate? A shop stocked with what we might regard as "decent" levels of products requires a huge financial outlay in order to fill shelves and attract customers. Not only that, but how often do retailers find themselves with all the other permutations of a model/item but not the actual one that the customer actually wants. Then of course, we all like bargain, and with rapid turnarounds of internet/phone orders, and the discounts that can be given due to purchasing power, the average high street retailer very often can not compete on an equal footing Various people have posted how the average price for products is lower now (in relative terms) to previous years - and we have manufacturers who spoil us by producing a raft of new releases instead of the odd loco, coach or wagon, or even repaint of an existing product. Could high street model shops be facing extinction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2013 Perhaps model shops are becoming like motor racing - the way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Retail on the high street is dying a death in general, not just in hobby stores. But there is definitely hope by choosing the correct retail model to follow. We are consulting at the moment with a small-chain retailer (not related to hobbies) about revolutionising the way they treat their high street retail outlets. I can't give any specific details but I can point you in the direction of retailers like Debenhams, who consistently outperform their peers and competitors. Instore concessions are a very good way of cutting your own stockholding of larger ticket items (and therefore freeing cash) and generating rent and commissions on the floorspace they occupy. This allows you to concentrate on other lines, often higher volume, smaller value (FMCG) items that generate quick cash, and often are seen as a valuable resource by customers – glue and paint are perfect examples, especially as postal trade is now restricted. If a retailer were to 'concessionise' half to two-thirds of their retail space on high-value items and use the remainder for FMCG you would have a successful (fingers crossed) retail model to build your business with a decent cashflow plus rental and commission income. The key to this model is negotiating your concession contracts – I can't go into more detail than that, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 There a large posters in the windows of Cardiff Modelzone today: "Liquidation Sale" "Everything must go" "10 - 30% off" There was a caveat about concessions on one of the posters. Had a look inside but nothing on the railway side seemed any cheaper! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2013 I don't know whether this is related to the Signal Box at Rochester or not but... I went to the Bluebell Railway on Saturday for the Model Railway weekend. Now silly me wasn't paying full attention (the fact I had my newly promoted Fiancee on my arm, and she wants an A4 Sir Nigel Gresley in blue but that's another story!!) BUT there was a stall at Sheffield Park (next to the snacks hut by the footbridge on the down platform) that was selling RTR, much at nice discounts as well as split from sets stuff etc which seemed to be very much in the style of the old Signal Box stands at the likes of Ally Pally etc only a bit smaller. The discount labels on the various RTR looked identical (I purchased a very nice discounted Bachmann green Class 37 and some ex set wagons) anyway whilst the fun and games was had trying to get a signal to the chip and pin machine I overhead a conversation between one of the stall holders and a gentleman stating that they had only just set up after the ModelZone implosion and that their website goes live next week.. Who were these people? I managed to mislay the card/paperwork they gave me (blame to soon to be wife!) Wondered if there is any connection here.... EDIT - Google is your friend: http://www.companieslist.co.uk/08505014-invicta-model-rail-limited Just been set up. Did someone further up this thread say two of the Signal Box management had resigned and one of them was called Kerry? If so, one and the same it would appear which is hopeful. Interesting. This now leaves me in a quandary. I have long respected TSB as a model railway retailer, and that in part was due to Kerry's management. However, if she is now running her own business, I'm torn between supporting TSB due to prior purchases there, and Kerry's new business. Thankfully I don't have to make such decisions right now as I've no cash anyway! and Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 There a large posters in the windows of Cardiff Modelzone today: "Liquidation Sale" "Everything must go" "10 - 30% off" There was a caveat about concessions on one of the posters. Had a look inside but nothing on the railway side seemed any cheaper! Dave Dave, Can Confirm that Till Prices have been changed This AM. ( Did you ask as to what was cheaper or just, as you say, look inside?) Staff are having to deal with hanging the signage recieved today and then re-pricing everything that isn't 'Hornby&Co.' Consession Stock. Most Modelzones are run on minimum staffing levels at Minimum wage. My local had the regular Two members of Staff this AM trying to do all of that and STILL serve people and answer the phone! They were also telling people of the discount's that would apply to anything that they bought and saying that they were working on Changing the Physical Price tickets ... Also, Please note that the posters are a " Standard Package" used by the Administrators and doesn't mean there is no "Avenue of Escape" so to speak. Lots of people in and out of my local store and calling to find out when the "Closing Down ( sic ) Sale" starts, But not many buying anything atm. ( I will be over once DEMU is over and stock up on Many little items like Tamiya stuff etc. ) ... Frustrating for the Staff, as they are only 5 days into the 45 day Consultation Period that is required these days. Wishing lot's of Friends and Former workmates "Good luck". this time around. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Just to clarify matters. Vernon and Kerry have left SB and are starting a new business - Invicta Models in Sidcup. Invicta Models were at the Bluebell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Are they running this as a shop - or is it internet only? I ask because it would be very handy to pop in to a shop in Station Rd.....(and it saves those awkward explanations to the Mrs when another package arrives through the post!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I'll answer my own question; it seems to be a shop per the advert in Thompson local. My wallet is wincing already....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 There a large posters in the windows of Cardiff Modelzone today: "Liquidation Sale" "Everything must go" "10 - 30% off" There was a caveat about concessions on one of the posters. Had a look inside but nothing on the railway side seemed any cheaper! Dave Same in the Plymouth shop!!! Was also in Antics, and one of the long term staff there informed me he was being made redundant, at the end of the month!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
70E Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 just been to my local MZ 20% off of Bachmann, discounts on Peco, paints and adhesives, told that there will be nothing on Hornby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Dave, Can Confirm that Till Prices have been changed This AM. ( Did you ask as to what was cheaper or just, as you say, look inside?) Mike. Mike, Just had a look around, didn't see anything I actually wanted to buy, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 just been to my local MZ 20% off of Bachmann, discounts on Peco, paints and adhesives, told that there will be nothing on Hornby Too bad the online sites are still down.. .would not mind a couple bargains... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Will echo what others here have said. My local had 20% off all railways bar Hornby, as well as 20% off Airfix/Revell/Taimya kits and most diecast. The only items with 30% off are the paints and glue, which might merit stocking up. It is indeed a shame that the website is still down - my local had about three small shelves of Bachmann, whilst a greater choice may well have seen me purchase something. There weren't even any Bachmann locos - is this common at other stores? One wonders how they will dispense with the pool of Bachmann items at central warehouse, so long as the website is down - as it makes it near-impossible to tell what they've got available. Heard others chatting with staff and showing some dark humour; they were saying that only the Hornby shelves will be pristine whilst all the other shelves are well picked-over by fervent bargain hunters. Though they own the stock and are well within their rights to do so, it will be quite a sight to see Margate send reclamation lorries for their wares. Speaking to one of the duty managers, he seemed to think that if no buyers for the business are found within the next two weeks, the stores will be gone for good by the end of the month. Worrying. They also had a pretty well populated petition against the stores closure, which was good to see. You've really got to feel for them. Lets hope they do a HMV, though the fact the sale posters declare 'all stock must go' doesn't augur well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 "whilst all the other shelves are well picked-over by fervent bargain hunters." "They also had a pretty well populated petition against the stores closure, which was good to see." Presumably signed by the self same fervent bargain hunters. Rather reminiscent of the clamour after our village pub closed, because so few in the village used it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2013 Regrettably I have to agree with you - I think we are beginning to see some of the impact the deep discounters have wrought on our hobby although the malaise goes wider than that and isn't just down to video games but a different sort of outlook in society where it has become 'the thing' to have the latest in mobile devices as well as clothing becoming even more of a fashion & fad thing among a wider spread of the population. Thus 'disposable' income is not so available for hobby interests among a bug section of society and in any case there is a far greater slice not interested in constructive (or should that be 'constructional'?) hobbies than used to be the case. So the market has shrunk and within what is left there is vocal section demanding 'cheap' products and wanting the latest of everything - which by inference also has to be 'cheap'. The retailers who do survive thus have to either join in the discounting - at possible threat to the financial wellbeing of their business or innovate and broaden their appeal in various ways. We all want paint and adhesives, probably kits and very likely components of various sorts but a lot of that might well involve widely spread stocks of low return items which still need stock control, ordering and storage. It leaves us buying from a very limited range of shops and exhibitions - although in doing the latter we might also be hurting the very shops we try to support? One thing I think is fairly certain in all of that and it is that shops - chain or not - will find it increasingly difficult to survive on high rental sites but they might, with the right marketing, be able to survive where premises cost less and if we continue to support them. One thing that isn't talked about is how there isn't a big opportunity for the younger people to get into the hobby (or at least the older generation isn't reaching out to the younger generations, outside of their own kids). I know that sounds silly to say since there are a lot of model railway exhibitions (especially in England) but the large portion of people who go visit are the 40+ club. Hornby/Bachmann are doing their part by making starter sets but the issue is getting young people interested in trains again. I would think very few clubs these days have many members under the age of 40. We all should do more for the hobby's sake than buy merchandise for our own layouts and simply talk on RMWeb about how 'kids today aren't interested in trains anymore and isn't that a crying shame...' When was the last time you encouraged someone under the age of 35 to take up model railways? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2013 When was the last time you encouraged someone under the age of 35 to take up model railways? Slightly OT but answering that question here is the hand of The Stationmaster's daughter holding card strips in position while the hot glue sets. Getting (almost) back on topic the card strips were then covered with Modroc which was then coated with a thin mix of Hydrocal which said daughter had been despatched to nearest branch of Modelzone to purchase as our stock was exhausted. She regularly accompanies The Stationmaster to exhibitions as several other RMweb members can testify. Son's limited edition Class 47 is - I understand - due to arrive from Shildon next week; he sometimes visits the Reading branch of Modelzone during his lunch break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 One thing that isn't talked about is how there isn't a big opportunity for the younger people to get into the hobby (or at least the older generation isn't reaching out to the younger generations, outside of their own kids). I know that sounds silly to say since there are a lot of model railway exhibitions (especially in England) but the large portion of people who go visit are the 40+ club. Hornby/Bachmann are doing their part by making starter sets but the issue is getting young people interested in trains again. I would think very few clubs these days have many members under the age of 40. We all should do more for the hobby's sake than buy merchandise for our own layouts and simply talk on RMWeb about how 'kids today aren't interested in trains anymore and isn't that a crying shame...' When was the last time you encouraged someone under the age of 35 to take up model railways? I agree above with Stationmaster... slightly off topic, but to answer... how many people do you know in the 'under 35' age group who have even a passing interest in trains? Looking at my own family as an example, myself and my two brothers all grew up with model trains, however it is only myself who has an interest. My other two brothers used to be interested, but have since moved on to more exciting endeavors... video games... women... booze... etc... That's not to say I'm not interested in the above, as it would be a lie to say otherwise. I am married and enjoy a beer while puttering along with my Wii. Again, using my family as an example... and observing the general populous... IMHO, 'kids' these days are more interested in the whole 'instant gratification' thing, rather than taking the time to create something. Maybe it's a Canadian (North American?) thing... trains don't seem to have captured the public appeal that they have in Britain. In know where I live (London, Ontario) the average citizen would just as soon banish the railway as acknowledge it's existence. This is probably due to the fact that London is a major hub of rail activity with many, many level crossings causing all sorts of delays at the most inopportune time. anyway... that's my rant... and as always, simply my opinion. Now.. lets get back to the topic at hand! (sorry for the hijack!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I know that sounds silly to say since there are a lot of model railway exhibitions (especially in England) but the large portion of people who go visit are the 40+ club. It was ever thus………. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hornby/Bachmann are doing their part by making starter sets but the issue is getting young people interested in trains again. I would think very few clubs these days have many members under the age of 40. My local MRC has a thriving junior section. Out of a registered 9, we regularly get an average of 6 juniors at our club nights. Juniors are aged 10 - 18, we also have a few others under 30. (BTW, that 9 is 15% of our total membership!) Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'll answer my own question; it seems to be a shop per the advert in Thompson local. My wallet is wincing already....! For those that are interested, I walked past Invicta yesterday evening - it's on Station Road in Sidcup, next Drewery's Estate Agents, so in answer to the question posed above - Who would want to start a model shop in an economic climate like this? there's a positive answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2013 One thing that isn't talked about is how there isn't a big opportunity for the younger people to get into the hobby (or at least the older generation isn't reaching out to the younger generations, outside of their own kids). I know that sounds silly to say since there are a lot of model railway exhibitions (especially in England) but the large portion of people who go visit are the 40+ club. Hornby/Bachmann are doing their part by making starter sets but the issue is getting young people interested in trains again. I would think very few clubs these days have many members under the age of 40. We all should do more for the hobby's sake than buy merchandise for our own layouts and simply talk on RMWeb about how 'kids today aren't interested in trains anymore and isn't that a crying shame...' When was the last time you encouraged someone under the age of 35 to take up model railways? There are exceptions but, as a general rule, new recruits to our hobby tend to be in their 40s, having had an interest in the real thing when they were younger. Therefore, the most important thing we can do for the long term health of our hobby is, perhaps, to promote a general interest in railways so that we may reap the harvest later. When I was in my late teens my cash and time went on keeping a ramshackle BSA in the land of the living (just), drinking beer and chasing girls. My old Tri-ang went into a safe place for two decades, ironically to be disposed of when my interest was rekindled. Our hobby is mainly practiced by those with a reasonable amount of disposable income and plenty of time on our hands. I didn't get into that position until my 40s and I have always thought myself pretty typical in that respect. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 New Oxford Street store yesterday evening: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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