ModelZone seeking Administration

[the-gog]

Off another forum, apropos the Leicester store and its manager:

 

"He has worked his backside off for Modelzone and thought the recent management changes where the turning point for the better . Turns out all it was was the directors bailing out before creditors pulled the plug ."

[PrestburyJack]

 

I'd have thought that the several hundred independent shops under the Toymaster banner were a bit more visible than ModelZone - Iknow the one in Keighley has a lot of Hornby stocked and its even got a trainset in the window

 

Hopefully individual shops stock more, as the Toymaster website http://www.toymastershop.co.uk/c-736-carriages.aspx only lists ONE item under Hornby - a Mk 3 coach!

[Dan Griffin]

I was told by a Peterborough modelzone employee that Hornby own the stock until modelzone sell it, hence why there is no discount on Hornby products

[Dr Al]

Is there any clear list of what stores are still open, in particular for me the Glasgow branches?

 

Thanks,

Alan

[Butler Henderson]

Glasgow Silverburn, along with Peterborough, have closed.

[Tim H]

Reading was still open yesterday.

[RJS1977]

One area where I think Toymaster may well score higher than MZ in terms of getting new families into the hobby is that although MZ had a few train sets, most of its stock was "top end" aimed at established modellers/collectors, which probably acted as a disincentive for Mum & Dad buying presents for little Johnny. Even if they could get a train set at a decent price, they could see that most additions to the set were going to work out (to their eyes) very expensive.

 

I can remember one of the exhibition traders (I think probably the one Stationmaster referred to) saying to me a couple of years ago that once "DCC Ready" locos passed the £100 barrier, sales dropped off significantly.

 

Just plucked up a random RM (April 1995) which was listing model bogie diesel locos at around £30. Just put that figure into http://www.whatsthecost.com/cpi.aspx and it works out at around £45 today. Try finding a similar model today for £45 (other than Hattons "Bargains") - the Hornby western was £30 in 1995, the Dapol one is £200 now! Yes, I know the quality of detail etc has improved a lot over the years but that's not what Mum and Dad are looking for for Johnny. They want something that will run out of the box without worrying about all the detail parts breaking off and keep him occupied for a few hours.

 

When I was a lad I could look in the Hornby catalogue or the Modeller and see that a coach was within a few weeks' pocket money, or a 37, 47 etc in probably twice that time or maybe a little more. Where are the junior 37s or 47s today? (Yes, I know there aren't many of them on the main line now either, but what about an entry level 66?). Likewise a 3-car HST was listed in 1995 at £46 - equivalent to £65 today, but the only HSTs I can see listed in the latest Modeller is a 2-car set with an RRP of £180! Yet what has remained in the Hornby Railroad range seems to have held its own against inflation rather better (coaches £10 in 1995, £15 now for example) so production costs aren't the issue for Railroad items. Yes, I know these old Railroad models have paid off their tooling costs many times over whilst new models (like the 66 I mentioned) would need new tooling, but again if offset against a 20-year production run rather than some of the very-limited runs of some of today's items, no reason why it can't happen.

 

None of which is to knock any of the fantastic top-spec models around now or to say production of those should be stopped, but model railways have over recent years priced themselves out of/reduced their involvement in the "Mum and Dad" market so drops in sales/closures in stores that are well-placed to cater for that market are largely inevitable.

[Dr Al]

Glasgow Silverburn, along with Peterborough, have closed.

 

Does that mean their stock has been transferred to Glasgow St Enoch?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[RJS1977]

And it's not just the "Mum and Dad" market that budget models appeal to. Anyone else modelling on limited funds or wanting something to repaint/modify would welcome budget models too. For example, the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway had a visiting Class 15 diesel in May. Nice loco, and I wouldn't mind having one on my Wallingford layout, but I can't justify £100 on a model that would only see occasional use, especially since Heljan don't do one the right colour! 

[Dunsignalling]

And it's not just the "Mum and Dad" market that budget models appeal to. Anyone else modelling on limited funds or wanting something to repaint/modify would welcome budget models too. For example, the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway had a visiting Class 15 diesel in May. Nice loco, and I wouldn't mind having one on my Wallingford layout, but I can't justify £100 on a model that would only see occasional use, especially since Heljan don't do one the right colour!

 

The Class 15 is probably a bit too obscure a prototype to justify a budget model in addition to the Heljan one but it's not just the Mum & Dad / Enthusiasts on a budget that are experiencing strange times.

 

Production of some recent releases, seem to have deliberately pitched at a level to ensure that such sales that are made take place at prices closer to 'list'. I am usually pretty good at making sure I get what I want and, whilst this seems to mainly a Hornby 'thing', I was one of the crowd caught out by the Bachmann SECR 'C' affair. There's no way I'll pay £135+ for a second-hand one, so I'll do without unless they re-run it.

 

The manufacturers need to take care that this does not become counter-productive, surely it less profitable to sell (say) 2000 models at r.r.p than 3000 at r.r.p less 10%, (always supposing, of course that there is enough demand for 3000 items to sell out without further discounting).

 

Another factor may be playing a part; I have lately refrained from purchasing several items that I would quite like and would normally have snapped up. Admittedly, there haven't been many new locomotives of direct interest to me for a couple of years; so maybe this has allowed 'Austerity' to become a habit, or perhaps it's just "full cupboard syndrome".

 

Either way, I seem to have become much more selective about buying anything outside my 'usual interests' than I used to be and my local model shop proprietor reckons I am by no means alone in this attitude.

 

If it has become widespread, manufacturers will be well advised to avoid any 'feast-or-famine' tendencies in future product planning.

 

John

[big jim]

anyone know if cardiff has shut, and if not is it far from the main station?

 

similarly is derby still open?

 

(bet you cant guess where im working tomorrow and thursday!)

[squeaky]

I was in Cardiff MZ on Saturday they informed me that they closing this Saturday 10th. They had some Bachmann, graham garish and some other modelling stuff. Lots of die cast and a few plastic kits.

['CHARD]

anyone know if cardiff has shut, and if not is it far from the main station?

 

similarly is derby still open?

 

(bet you cant guess where im working tomorrow and thursday!)

 

Cardiff's on 'Town Wall' which is about five - ten minutes walk from Queen Street, if it's still trading.

 

Derby's is in the Westfield Shopping Centre, a good ten - fifteen minutes walk from the station.

[Danemouth]

Cardiff's on 'Town Wall' which is about five - ten minutes walk from Queen Street, if it's still trading.

 

Derby's is in the Westfield Shopping Centre, a good ten - fifteen minutes walk from the station.

Cardiff - the "town Wall" is within St David's Shopping Centre about 10 minutes from Cardiff Central.

 

If coming from Central cut up the Royal Arcade and you will pass the Ian Allan shop!

 

Dave

[Jol Wilkinson]

The Class 15 is probably a bit too obscure a prototype to justify a budget model in addition to the Heljan one but it's not just the Mum & Dad / Enthusiasts on a budget that are experiencing strange times.

 

Production of some recent releases, seem to have deliberately pitched at a level to ensure that such sales that are made take place at prices closer to 'list'. I am usually pretty good at making sure I get what I want and, whilst this seems to mainly a Hornby 'thing', I was one of the crowd caught out by the Bachmann SECR 'C' affair. There's no way I'll pay £135+ for a second-hand one, so I'll do without unless they re-run it.

 

The manufacturers need to take care that this does not become counter-productive, surely it less profitable to sell (say) 2000 models at r.r.p than 3000 at r.r.p less 10%, (always supposing, of course that there is enough demand for 3000 items to sell out without further discounting).

 

Another factor may be playing a part; I have lately refrained from purchasing several items that I would quite like and would normally have snapped up. Admittedly, there haven't been many new locomotives of direct interest to me for a couple of years; so maybe this has allowed 'Austerity' to become a habit, or perhaps it's just "full cupboard syndrome".

 

Either way, I seem to have become much more selective about buying anything outside my 'usual interests' than I used to be and my local model shop proprietor reckons I am by no means alone in this attitude.

 

If it has become widespread, manufacturers will be well advised to avoid any 'feast-or-famine' tendencies in future product planning.

 

John

 

John,

 

what few, if any of us, actually know are the real reasons behind the product volume/price decisions that the RTR manufacturers make. What production capacity is available, what margins they work within, what lead/delivery times are and how this affects when a product comes to the market place? The difference between too much or too little production is a unit of one, so it's not any easy decision.

 

You have then to take account, if you can, of the performance of the retailers in advertising and selling stock. As you alluded to there is the desirability or otherwise of a particular model, which may be different to your best estimates of how many will sell.

 

Your suggestion that 2000 units at "full price" isn't as good as 3000 at 10% discount (assuming the total profit is the same) overlooks that you have to do 50% more work for the same result. If you look at other retail models (examples) the you may see that the "must have" brands in various sectors (e.g. Apple, Range Rover, BMW, Kitchen Aid, etc.)  tend to control retail pricing through a variety of mechanisms. Clearly they want to maximise the profit from every unit they sell.

 

As consumers, the RTR model sector seems very price or discount conscious, although these are not always the same thing. It's easy for a retailer to chase business with the biggest discount but that can take them down a slippery and unprofitable slope. 

 

As for "feast or famine", which of us could tell Bachmann or Hornby accurately how many of a particular model they should make to meet customer demand without having funds tied up in excessive stock and having to resort to subsequent discounting. I suppose that there will be some that claim to have that expertise, but it isn't their own money they are playing with.

 

Jol

[Dunsignalling]

John,

 

what few, if any of us, actually know are the real reasons behind the product volume/price decisions that the RTR manufacturers make. What production capacity is available, what margins they work within, what lead/delivery times are and how this affects when a product comes to the market place? The difference between too much or too little production is a unit of one, so it's not any easy decision.

 

You have then to take account, if you can, of the performance of the retailers in advertising and selling stock. As you alluded to there is the desirability or otherwise of a particular model, which may be different to your best estimates of how many will sell.

 

Your suggestion that 2000 units at "full price" isn't as good as 3000 at 10% discount (assuming the total profit is the same) overlooks that you have to do 50% more work for the same result. If you look at other retail models (examples) the you may see that the "must have" brands in various sectors (e.g. Apple, Range Rover, BMW, Kitchen Aid, etc.) tend to control retail pricing through a variety of mechanisms. Clearly they want to maximise the profit from every unit they sell.

 

As consumers, the RTR model sector seems very price or discount conscious, although these are not always the same thing. It's easy for a retailer to chase business with the biggest discount but that can take them down a slippery and unprofitable slope.

 

As for "feast or famine", which of us could tell Bachmann or Hornby accurately how many of a particular model they should make to meet customer demand without having funds tied up in excessive stock and having to resort to subsequent discounting. I suppose that there will be some that claim to have that expertise, but it isn't their own money they are playing with.

 

Jol

To quote one recent example; Hornby's BR green Maunsell Open 2nd coach was produced in such small numbers that a dealer of my acquaintance had his order for 15 reduced to a delivery of just 6 without advance warning.

 

Any of his regular customers who didn't find one elsewhere within a week of release are probably still looking

 

Assuming that his case is typical, and bearing in mind that the release of this model was a year late, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate that Hornby had plenty of time to estimate the demand well enough to avoid losing two thirds of their potential sales volume.

 

John

[orcadian]

To quote one recent example; Hornby's BR green Maunsell Open 2nd coach was produced in such small numbers that a dealer of my acquaintance had his order for 15 reduced to a delivery of just 6 without advance warning.

 

Any of his regular customers who didn't find one elsewhere within a week of release are probably still looking

 

 

John

John, 

The BR green Maunsell Open 2nd coach was readily available in some retaillers in May. I happened to be on a business trip to a city I rarely visit, noticed a Modelzone on my way back to the coach stop, went in and bought one of the 5 of these that they had available on their display.

 

If I were connected with a manufacturing company, I would be better pleased by selling out the total production and leaving people wanting more than if I had a warehouse-load of stock waiting in the hope of it eventually selling! I also know which of these two I would be happy to schedule for a re-run batch after a suitable delay!

 

Wasn't it a catch phrase of the pop concert promoters over the decades, that their artistes should always leave the audience wanting more?

 

Richard

[Dunsignalling]

orcadian, on 05 Aug 2013 - 17:47, said:

John,

The BR green Maunsell Open 2nd coach was readily available in some retaillers in May. I happened to be on a business trip to a city I rarely visit, noticed a Modelzone on my way back to the coach stop, went in and bought one of the 5 of these that they had available on their display.

 

If I were connected with a manufacturing company, I would be better pleased by selling out the total production and leaving people wanting more than if I had a warehouse-load of stock waiting in the hope of it eventually selling! I also know which of these two I would be happy to schedule for a re-run batch after a suitable delay!

 

Wasn't it a catch phrase of the pop concert promoters over the decades, that their artistes should always leave the audience wanting more?

 

Richard

Deliberately turning your back on definite sales seems a peculiar way of playing it safe to me! It seems a hell of a safety margin, too!

 

Incidentally, if you got one from Modelzone in May, they seem to have received theirs 3 weeks before most other retailers. Maybe once they are gone, proper model shops will get a fair crack of the whip.

 

John

 

Edited to make sense of the second sentence!

[andymac-2008]

Just seen in Retail Week they have put a list of dates of the next store closures

Store closure list

 

Closing 10 August 2013

Hull

Leicester

Doncaster

Bluewater

Cardiff

 

Closing on 13 August 2013 

Romford

Ipswich

Meadowhall

Leeds

Swansea

Hope this list is help to some of you.

[C&WR]

A bit OT, but following the points above about pricing.  I had been after a FGW Class 166 for my boy.  Sadly they can't be had new, and on eBay were going for about 150 pounds (no pound sign on this computer) which I couldn't afford & even if I could I probably wouldn't pay.

 

Eventually I got in touch with Bachmann who said that because they couldn't reproduce the dynamic lines FGW livery they had no plans to release a 166 model.  Surely they could see that there was a market for the older one?

 

In the end I got hold of a NSE one for 70 notes & was delighted with it.  A missed opportunity for Bachmann, I think though!

[RJS1977]

The Class 15 is probably a bit too obscure a prototype to justify a budget model in addition to the Heljan one but it's not just the Mum & Dad / Enthusiasts on a budget that are experiencing strange times.

 

 

 

I don't know... who would have thought a budget model of a one-off tank engine that never went outside Swindon works would remain in production for over 30 years (albeit often with fictional liveries)?

[Dunsignalling]

I don't know... who would have thought a budget model of a one-off tank engine that never went outside Swindon works would remain in production for over 30 years (albeit often with fictional liveries)?

Yes, but the main reason they chose it was probably just because its dimensions happened to coincide with an existing chassis, there are limits to how 'creative' they can get with their Caley-style Pug.

 

John

[Simpkinstom]

Hi does anyone know if the Bristol store has properly shut yet?
I saw that it was closing down, but didn't know the offical end date.

[roundhouse]

Hi does anyone know if the Bristol store has properly shut yet?

I saw that it was closing down, but didn't know the offical end date.

 

When I was in there a week and a half ago they said that they had about 3 weeks or so to go. As to how accurate that forecast was I don't know.

 

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

Just seen in Retail Week they have put a list of dates of the next store closures

Store closure list

 

Closing 10 August 2013

Hull

Leicester

Doncaster

Bluewater

Cardiff

 

Closing on 13 August 2013 

Romford

Ipswich

Meadowhall

Leeds

Swansea

Hope this list is help to some of you.

According to the chap in the Reading branch - who had just come off the 'phone from talking to the administrators -  that list was to be amended today and a fresh list of 10 shops slated for closure was going to be listed.

 

Also there are reports that the previous proprietor of Modelzone has purchased the Hawkins Bazaar chain, or some of it retail premises, and has secured retail deals with a number of Modelzone's suppliers - he had previously bid for 26 of Modelzone's shops but was turned down by the administrators.