rembrow Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 regarding the Kernow Delabole Slate presflos commissioned from Bachmann, I had a shock yesterday when I checked the Kernow website. I had pre-ordered last September at the then price of £44.95 (pre-order discount), however with the recent Bachmann price increase, Kernow are now showing this set at £79.99 and have advised that they are in discussions with Bachmann but do not anticipate being able to maintain the pre-order prices for those already ordered. This must be the biggest price rise of the recent Bachmann price increases, as it works out at just under 80%. The presflos already had a significant price rise 3 years ago, when the 3 packs went up from £28 to £48, which affected the price of the Blue Circle yellow livery set, midway through its distribution to retailers. Those with pre-orders may want to check the Kernow website, as they are anticipated to be coming into stock next month. Undoubtably Kernow will advise customers with pre-orders of any forced price increase before taking payment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2014 regarding the Kernow Delabole Slate presflos commissioned from Bachmann, I had a shock yesterday when I checked the Kernow website. I had pre-ordered last September at the then price of £44.95 (pre-order discount), however with the recent Bachmann price increase, Kernow are now showing this set at £79.99 and have advised that they are in discussions with Bachmann but do not anticipate being able to maintain the pre-order prices for those already ordered. This must be the biggest price rise of the recent Bachmann price increases, as it works out at just under 80%. The presflos already had a significant price rise 3 years ago, when the 3 packs went up from £28 to £48, which affected the price of the Blue Circle yellow livery set, midway through its distribution to retailers. Those with pre-orders may want to check the Kernow website, as they are anticipated to be coming into stock next month. Undoubtably Kernow will advise customers with pre-orders of any forced price increase before taking payment. Wow that is a big price increase. Perhaps explains why Bachmann's own Presflos still show price TBA on its website... But they do have a lot of small parts to fit not unlike the Polybulks and we've seen the large price increase for those. Kernow has also withdrawn the pre-order price for the triple pack of china clay wagons (33-080X) due to a 20% price rise from Bachmann, but in this case they are able to honour the existing pre-orders at the reduced price and are just not accepting any more: http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/38802/33080X_Bachmann_China_Clay_Wagon_Triple_Pack_BR_Bauxite I wonder how Bachmann's price rises will affect the willingness of retailers to commission limited editions. I suspect the capital tied up in such stock until they sell may become unsustainable for some. Part of the problem is the long lead times from a limited edition being commissioned to it appearing on sale. Retailers could have more confidence in a price quoted by Bachmann if delivery was only months rather than years away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Brushman, I agree completely that this level of price, does seriously undermine the likelihood of retailers being willing to commission models from Bachmann, as they will anticipate that sales in the short to medium term will be significantly reduced, and they will be unable to rely on a final price from Bachmann. Before posting my previous message I pm'd Andy Y to seek his agreement to unlock the 'Bachmann Why Price Rises are Necessary' thread in order to raise the issue of the effect on commissioned model orders and the impact on those such as Kernow and Invicta who are caught by having made commissioned orders that come in way above a price that they ever invisiged and for which they are likely to find themselves with stock they cannot sell without making a loss. To my mind, Bachmann should share the pain with the retailer by negotiating a price point that is lower than their standard price increase for that model, but above the original estimated price, that way the retailer doesn't suffer all the cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2014 To my mind, Bachmann should share the pain with the retailer by negotiating a price point that is lower than their standard price increase for that model, but above the original estimated price, that way the retailer doesn't suffer all the cost. That sounds fairest to the dealer, of course, but what we will never know is the terms and conditions that were agreed at the time of the commission. It is easy for us to regard such relationships as a bit David and Goliath, but the reality may be another matter entirely. Business is business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I agree we don't know what were the terms and conditions, however Kernow are a big customer of Bachmann and part of business is to maintain your customers via goodwill unless you are selling something that is so desirable that you can name your price, which model railways are not. Bearing in mind Bachmann has made much of their business ethic in supporting the retailer customers, can they afford to have that affected by leaving a customer with several hundred potentially unsalable items. I suspect there is a red hot phone line between Camborne and Barwell at the moment. It's interesting that the three standard range next release presflos, two singletons and a 3 pack, are still showing as TBA on the Bachmann site, yet are due for release in June/July, could indicate that there is further negotiation going on with Kader about a final price that will be acceptable to all and avoid having a 'fire sale' later in the year. Interestingly the Class 101 DMU, also due for release in June/July is also showing as TBA price by Bachmann - worrying?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david12345 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I have no idea how Bachmann can come up with a price of £27+ for a wagon of this size, or am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2014 I have no idea how Bachmann can come up with a price of £27+ for a wagon of this size, or am I missing something? Custom paint jobs always have cost more than the normal production line - used to be at least a tenner an item but clearly now re-evaluated. And there's the making and adding of the hood which increase labour content. For all that it still seems a heck of a lot on a product where there was already an agreed price and it might reflect a desire on the part of Bachmann not to get involved in so much 'custom' work in the future possibly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 At that price I just can't see future releases of Presflos being viable. I wonder what the price would be if they were supplied as a kit, like Triang used to do? It's definitely looking like the golden age of British RTR is over, and I'm glad I stocked up on Presflos when they first appeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2014 Ouch, that's a huge cost. I thought that the £34 for 3 n gauge china clay wagons was steep. Can't see many being sold at the price being quoted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I wonder what this means for the chances of ever getting a 3 car DEMU from Bachmann and Kernow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 However, to confuse matters in one recent DVD, a barely one second scene shot from a train passing Delabole, shows two diagram 1/210 Covhops in the sidings! There were three slate powder COVHOPS - B886312/3 (non-fitted) and B886832 (fitted). Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 I dont think it is over-priced, though it is expensive....there is a difference..... A pertinent point. I realise it's now 4.25 years since the Presflo first came out and butchering a few back then gave me a large amount of respect of what we were getting for the price - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1/entry-3020-ici-presflo/ & http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/1/entry-2752-twin-silo-presflo/, as you say it may appear expensive but once you realise what goes in to it all of a sudden £25+ doesn't seem unreasonable. Anyway, glad I've got my twin-hoppered variant as I doubt they'll ever appear now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Responding to locoholic in post 39 Airfix made the Presflo kit: not Triang. It was made in England and cost about 10p so £27 does seem expensive even allowing for inflation. It probably still represents good value for money for the work involved in making it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I agree with Andy Y that when the model first came out, in hindsight, it was extremely good value and I suspect Bachmann had underpriced it, as when the Blue Circle yellow livery triple pack came out, they raised the price from about £8 per wagon to £14. To me the difficulty is the issue of a model having such a significant price increase while its been advertised on pre-order sale, which in no way is the fault of Kernow. Some will say that I can always cancel my order, my difficulty is that I have a moral compass that means once I've made such an order I am not comfortable, in fact worse than that find it impossible to back out of the deal, where it is not due to the fault of the retailer. That is why most of my pre-orders have been with my local model shop, who I've been involved with for 30 years and have built up a long trust and friendship and I'm aware of the serious difficulties that they are facing with lack of stock and significant price increases. I was lucky, in that originally I wanted a rake of Blue Circle liveried presflos for my layout and was able to buy several of the Hattons triple packs, which were a bargain as weathered versions for £25 each pack. This Delabole version was one of those interesting variants, and came about after a walking holiday in north Cornwall last year, where we walked the Camel Trail in both directions, to Padstow and Wenford Bridge and I ended up ordering the Kernow limited editions of the railway systems in that area as momentos. So not necessary for the layout, but as a reminder of a wonderful holiday- I also got in two visits to Kernow Models at Camborne with SWMBO-result- and she bought me a weathered Kernow covered bogie hopper-even better result Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2014 I agree with Andy Y that when the model first came out, in hindsight, it was extremely good value and I suspect Bachmann had underpriced it, as when the Blue Circle yellow livery triple pack came out, they raised the price from about £8 per wagon to £14. To me the difficulty is the issue of a model having such a significant price increase while its been advertised on pre-order sale, which in no way is the fault of Kernow. Some will say that I can always cancel my order, my difficulty is that I have a moral compass that means once I've made such an order I am not comfortable, in fact worse than that find it impossible to back out of the deal, where it is not due to the fault of the retailer. That is why most of my pre-orders have been with my local model shop, who I've been involved with for 30 years and have built up a long trust and friendship and I'm aware of the serious difficulties that they are facing with lack of stock and significant price increases. I was lucky, in that originally I wanted a rake of Blue Circle liveried presflos for my layout and was able to buy several of the Hattons triple packs, which were a bargain as weathered versions for £25 each pack. This Delabole version was one of those interesting variants, and came about after a walking holiday in north Cornwall last year, where we walked the Camel Trail in both directions, to Padstow and Wenford Bridge and I ended up ordering the Kernow limited editions of the railway systems in that area as momentos. So not necessary for the layout, but as a reminder of a wonderful holiday- I also got in two visits to Kernow Models at Camborne with SWMBO-result- and she bought me a weathered Kernow covered bogie hopper-even better result A very important point in there I think - the whole matter of trust. As it happens I agree with you completely that having placed an order with a supplier I am honour bound to stick with it unless the supplier for some reason is never going to be able to supply it. If the price rises it is, I'm afraid, a matter of tough luck and it certainly isn't the retailer's fault as he priced in all honesty against what the manufacturer had told him. This is obviously going to be a difficult period for commissioners such as Kernow where price rises will be beyond their control and while they will do their best to get the best price they might not succeed in pulling Bachmann nearer to the original price level. And I'm sure they won't be alone in this although those who offered ridiculous levels of discount, or even invented prices when not even the manufacturer knew what they would be, are not in my view entitled to such consideration - but that is a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2014 I dont think it is over-priced, though it is expensive....there is a difference..... As always I think the individual will make that call...I know which camp I'm in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david12345 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I agree with the point that it is not overpriced but it is expensive and from a purchasers point of view you are not filling much track up with your £27. My point is that a wagon of this size is now moving out of impulse buy territory. I do not have any complaint with Bachmann or Kernow they are just reacting to factors further back in the chain of supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2014 There were three slate powder COVHOPS - B886312/3 (non-fitted) and B886832 (fitted). Regards, John Isherwood. Do you know where they went, when loaded? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Do you know where they went, when loaded? John John, See post #23. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 B850ZA and B850ZB Dapol OO Gauge Silver Bullet Clay Slurry Wagon. These models are exclusive to Kernow Model Rail Centre and have individual and prototypical finishes and are numbered 33 87 789 8 048 (B850ZA) and 33 87 789 8 062 (B850ZB pictured) and there really is a chrome finish beneath the weathering. Available now the the price is £37.99 each plus postage and at this time 75% of the limited edition run of 500 has been sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The Kernow Models Delabole Presflo Wagons are shown as in stock in their advertisment in the January Model Rail magazine, but still on order on their web site.http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/40761/38260Y_Bachmann_Delabole_Slate_Presflo_Wagon_Triple_Pack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I had anb e-mail from Kernow about the Delabole Slate presflo 3 pack yesterday, as I have a set on pre-order. They advised that they are due in shortly from Bachmann, and as promised they were advising pre order customers of a price change, due to the significant Bachmann price increase that had lifted the new order price to £79.99. Kernow have offered the set at £64.99 to pre order customers like myself, recognising the significant price increase. I have confirmed my order and thanked Kernow for offering to shoulder a significant proportion of the increase. It was always clear that the new price must reflect a massive price increase by Bachmann to Kernow, such that probably the original price would now be less than they were paying Bachmann, so they could not be expected to sell at a loss. I believe this is a significant and very welcome gesture, and reinforces my opinion about Kernow's positive customer focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's a pity nobody has this sort of policy for wagons in the north of England! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The latest Kernow newsletter, sent out today, advises that the Delabole Slate presflos have now arrived at Kernow and they will start processing existing orders this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2014 .....and I've just got email from Kernow saying that the Delabole wagons have been despatched. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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