Bachmann to produce ex LBSC Atlantic H2 Class 4-4-2

[Edwardian]

Especially at the moment. Higher prices have already discouraged us (me anyway) from spending forays outside our core interests. If the present Sterling - US Dollar exchange rate, which is key for our r-t-r producers, persists or worsens further, it could easily feed through into a further hike of 10-15% over the next 12 months. 

 

Prospects for future sales, even for items already in the pipeline, are such that we are unlikely to see more models as specialized as the Radials and the accompanying coaches being announced for some time, though I'd love to be proved wrong. IMHO, taking the commissioning route will probably be Hobson's Choice for at least the next couple of years.

 

John

 

 Also agree, and that is precisely why I am reluctant to give a manufacturer £140-160 for a model that would require surgery and a re-spray. I am more likely in this case to give DJH £160. 

 

.Any given life is too short for all the locomotives one might want, and kit/scratch-building time is, given my interests, better spent on producing enough wagons and coaches for them.

 

Given the standard of modern RTR, it isn't a step down, but it is a useful short cut.  I think "great, one less engine to build".  No need for 'proper modellers' to sneer at that, they'll still be plenty of types left to build. 

 

The clue, though, is in the name - Ready to Run.  If it ain't ready, the chief potential benefit of the model (saving time) is lost.  This is not to say we should not consider conversions.  We should, I am actively bodging and bashing RTR models in my modest way, but my donors are second hand, cheap and plentiful.

 

Where manufacturers don't tool for other variants, their RTR model can, at best, be tabled for consideration along with other options, such as kits, scratch-build or adapting older models.  Even if the new RTR model seems the best option, the manufacturer gets no immediate purchase from me, because its product is now a project and, as such, goes to the back of a very long queue of projects!

 

 

I will admit that if they did tool up the differences and produced one in LBSCR colours, I would buy one. I brought the E4 which was back dated as such (not to mention all their SECR items to date). However while the SECR stuff flew off the shelves (hope for a D class yet? they already have the tender for it and its preserved), the E4 seems to have been slow selling in pre-grouping form when released, doubtless made slower when Birch Grove (a fictive hybrid LBSCR livery used in preservation) came out. In fairness though most of them seem to have gone, so who knows?

 

Entirely fair and sensible comments, if I may say so.  I would seek to add 2 points to what you say.

 

First, in the absence of evidence either way, I believe that there is a sufficient market for an umber E4, given minimum numbers for viability of a livery/tooling option.  The question is whether Bachmann has guessed the demand correctly.  The Full Wainwright C may have skewed perceptions.  I love the restrained elegance of the umber E4, but query whether a re-tooled E4 in IEG, rivalling the intricate opulence of the full Wainwright livery on the C might have had greater appeal.

 

Second, a point I have made before; random pre-Group releases are self-limiting in sales.  Why buy an umber E4 when, unless your are already a self-sufficient kit builder, you will never have anything to run with it?  I invested in the umber E4 because (1) I had a kit-built K Class, (2) OO Works had announced an umber I3, and (3) Bachmann had announced the Atlantic (which I naturally expected would come out in umber at some stage, complimenting the E4 - but I should have realised not to look for coherence and logic in RTR release programmes!).

 

In contrast, Grouping and Nationalisation meant that pre-Grouping designs moved away from their home rails to some extent, could run with the more modern stock that is available RTR, and be supplemented by later, standard classes.  Not all combinations we see on layouts may be typical, but at least you can run a Southern or BR E4 with something! 

 

Manufacturers cannot manufacture everything you might want, but, where they do release a locomotive, it would be nice if some thought could be given to complimentary releases.  I would not be complaining that Bachmann had not planned a second Brighton design, but given Bachmann has, what madness not to allow it to compliment the umber E4! 

 

Perhaps the future of the hobby lies not with the Behemoths.  Their costs, delays, inflexibility and lack of control over their own production are well-known factors.  Add to that a 'vision' that seems restricted to milking the steam/diesel transition period to death, whilst failing to use their market share to promote any earlier period, save the occasional sop to the Thirties, means that steam outline modelling will be increasingly curtailed as the mainline steam generation moves on. 

 

Smaller companies using accessible manufacturing methods that can accomplish small batches might be the way forward.  The problem is that injection moulded plastic still produces the best results, and the tooling cost is reputedly exorbitant.  Has resin or 3D print got there yet?  I suspect that it will remain an expensive area to enter. The growth in awareness of IP rights over surviving locomotives means greater cost and access issues for smaller outfits.

 

There are winners an losers in all this.  The Hornby Peckett looks likely to prove an exquisite model and it is a Victorian prototype!   I am entirely thrilled with that release.  I was also thrilled with Hornby's mid-20s Colletts (would be even more so if released in their original livery). Not so thrilling is the decision to release an 'as preserved' Radial.  For anyone interested in prototype modelling, this is good only for a model of the Bluebell at whatever date 488 last had a boiler certificate. That example might be easily adapted and cured, but my issue is with the decision in principle not to bother with a pukka pre-Grouping example.   Hornby has a Drummond liveried M7 in its range.  Could it not make the imaginative leap to make a Drummond era version of the Radial?

 

I try to give praise where it is due (Butler Henderson, C Class, Peckett, E4, GN Atlantic, Colletts, Birdcages, L&B stock to name a few).  There is much that I feel pleased and grateful for.  Just don't expect me to be pleased or grateful when a manufacturer comes close, but then pulls a punch like Kernow not providing for pre-Grouping O2 and Gate stock, Hornby reproducing LSWR stock only in the form of late Thirties rebuilds, Hattons not tooling for a pre-war 4800/5800 and, now, Bachmann apparently not bothering with the Brighton Atlantic.  These are all subjects that could have been made available in earlier Grouping or pre-Grouping configurations.  Yes, there would be extra costs, and viability must be judged on a case by case basis, but they illustrate the attitude that models can only be made if they support the Nationalised scene.  If they'll 'do' for the late Thirties, or, occasionally earlier, a livery option might be offered, but the vast majority of models are tooled for the BR modeller.  Hard to criticise that on commercial grounds - for the moment - but I suspect there is something self-perpetuating in terms of BR-era sales and self-limiting with regards to earlier periods.  Many more pre-Group versions than we get could, I am sure, be justified as a limited run.

 

So, another missed opportunity on my growing "not to buy" list! 

[Wickham Green]

Uless I've missed something in the acres of 'reply quoting' above I don't think anyone's mentioned the Third Way ! ....... a ready-to-run model of every loco ( coach or wagon ) variant would be nice and most of us would find that preferable to building a kit ( of chosen variety ) - but what's happened to the aftermarket ?   How many of us put an Alan Gibson later-style cab on a Mainline pannier tank body when there was no option - surely with resin casting or 3D printing some back-street ( shed ? ) manufacturer could turn out the necessary conversion kit to back-date the atlantic or E4 etc. !!?!  ( Or, perhaps, a mainstream kit manufacturer who's established 'full' kit for that loco has suddenly lost the bulk of its potential market ! )

[JSpencer]

 Also agree, and that is precisely why I am reluctant to give a manufacturer £140-160 for a model that would require surgery and a re-spray. I am more likely in this case to give DJH £160. 

 

.Any given life is too short for all the locomotives one might want, and kit/scratch-building time is, given my interests, better spent on producing enough wagons and coaches for them.

 

Given the standard of modern RTR, it isn't a step down, but it is a useful short cut.  I think "great, one less engine to build".  No need for 'proper modellers' to sneer at that, they'll still be plenty of types left to build. 

 

The clue, though, is in the name - Ready to Run.  If it ain't ready, the chief potential benefit of the model (saving time) is lost.  This is not to say we should not consider conversions.  We should, I am actively bodging and bashing RTR models in my modest way, but my donors are second hand, cheap and plentiful.

 

Where manufacturers don't tool for other variants, their RTR model can, at best, be tabled for consideration along with other options, such as kits, scratch-build or adapting older models.  Even if the new RTR model seems the best option, the manufacturer gets no immediate purchase from me, because its product is now a project and, as such, goes to the back of a very long queue of projects!

 

 

 

Entirely fair and sensible comments, if I may say so.  I would seek to add 2 points to what you say.

 

First, in the absence of evidence either way, I believe that there is a sufficient market for an umber E4, given minimum numbers for viability of a livery/tooling option.  The question is whether Bachmann has guessed the demand correctly.  The Full Wainwright C may have skewed perceptions.  I love the restrained elegance of the umber E4, but query whether a re-tooled E4 in IEG, rivalling the intricate opulence of the full Wainwright livery on the C might have had greater appeal.

 

Second, a point I have made before; random pre-Group releases are self-limiting in sales.  Why buy an umber E4 when, unless your are already a self-sufficient kit builder, you will never have anything to run with it?  I invested in the umber E4 because (1) I had a kit-built K Class, (2) OO Works had announced an umber I3, and (3) Bachmann had announced the Atlantic (which I naturally expected would come out in umber at some stage, complimenting the E4 - but I should have realised not to look for coherence and logic in RTR release programmes!).

 

In contrast, Grouping and Nationalisation meant that pre-Grouping designs moved away from their home rails to some extent, could run with the more modern stock that is available RTR, and be supplemented by later, standard classes.  Not all combinations we see on layouts may be typical, but at least you can run a Southern or BR E4 with something! 

 

Manufacturers cannot manufacture everything you might want, but, where they do release a locomotive, it would be nice if some thought could be given to complimentary releases.  I would not be complaining that Bachmann had not planned a second Brighton design, but given Bachmann has, what madness not to allow it to compliment the umber E4! 

 

Perhaps the future of the hobby lies not with the Behemoths.  Their costs, delays, inflexibility and lack of control over their own production are well-known factors.  Add to that a 'vision' that seems restricted to milking the steam/diesel transition period to death, whilst failing to use their market share to promote any earlier period, save the occasional sop to the Thirties, means that steam outline modelling will be increasingly curtailed as the mainline steam generation moves on. 

 

Smaller companies using accessible manufacturing methods that can accomplish small batches might be the way forward.  The problem is that injection moulded plastic still produces the best results, and the tooling cost is reputedly exorbitant.  Has resin or 3D print got there yet?  I suspect that it will remain an expensive area to enter. The growth in awareness of IP rights over surviving locomotives means greater cost and access issues for smaller outfits.

 

There are winners an losers in all this.  The Hornby Peckett looks likely to prove an exquisite model and it is a Victorian prototype!   I am entirely thrilled with that release.  I was also thrilled with Hornby's mid-20s Colletts (would be even more so if released in their original livery). Not so thrilling is the decision to release an 'as preserved' Radial.  For anyone interested in prototype modelling, this is good only for a model of the Bluebell at whatever date 488 last had a boiler certificate. That example might be easily adapted and cured, but my issue is with the decision in principle not to bother with a pukka pre-Grouping example.   Hornby has a Drummond liveried M7 in its range.  Could it not make the imaginative leap to make a Drummond era version of the Radial?

 

I try to give praise where it is due (Butler Henderson, C Class, Peckett, E4, GN Atlantic, Colletts, Birdcages, L&B stock to name a few).  There is much that I feel pleased and grateful for.  Just don't expect me to be pleased or grateful when a manufacturer comes close, but then pulls a punch like Kernow not providing for pre-Grouping O2 and Gate stock, Hornby reproducing LSWR stock only in the form of late Thirties rebuilds, Hattons not tooling for a pre-war 4800/5800 and, now, Bachmann apparently not bothering with the Brighton Atlantic.  These are all subjects that could have been made available in earlier Grouping or pre-Grouping configurations.  Yes, there would be extra costs, and viability must be judged on a case by case basis, but they illustrate the attitude that models can only be made if they support the Nationalised scene.  If they'll 'do' for the late Thirties, or, occasionally earlier, a livery option might be offered, but the vast majority of models are tooled for the BR modeller.  Hard to criticise that on commercial grounds - for the moment - but I suspect there is something self-perpetuating in terms of BR-era sales and self-limiting with regards to earlier periods.  Many more pre-Group versions than we get could, I am sure, be justified as a limited run.

 

So, another missed opportunity on my growing "not to buy" list! 

 

From Bachmann at least, there are some SECR liveried birdcages on the way. There were some WWI war dept tankers and there have been some wagons done in SECR, KESR and various Kentish liveries by Bachmann and Dapol. Strictly those wagons are not correct (physically), but will do until I get round to orderiing some Parkside Dundas kits (Hornby did do a Chatham Dockyard small plank wagon some 15+ years ago, which at least is to the correct dimensions for once). Surely Bachmann must have a Dance Hall brake van in their sights?

My Kentish pre-grouping theme will boosted by the EKR radial for Oxford, an SECR Terrier (physically wrong) and - of course - I've had the Bodiam KSER terrier for years (also not entirely correct).

 

I was always surprised by their choice of doing an E4, considering the prototype is not exactly amongst Bluebells most popular, most of the former LBSCR coaching stock was scrapped by BR days, and - as far as I could tell - only one manufacturer did a kit of this class which was hardly known (which I nearly brought!).

Despite that, I awarded Bachmann 4 sales of the E4. I am somewhat surprised as the limited number of H2s being offered. Only 2, which equates to just one order from me. But when it arrives, it will be popular model on my layout for sure.

 

And agree that I3 is wonderful and cannot wait for the H2 to arrive (and what about a C2X?).

[Paul.Uni]

If I were a betting man, I'd say that Bachmann would announce a LB&SCR condition Brighton Atlantic about the same time as Bluebell announce that Beachy Head is going into LB&SCR condition.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Paul.Uni

[Edwardian]

what about a C2X?.

 

No, because some idiot will stick a second dome on it and produce a further disappointment!

[JSpencer]

If I were a betting man, I'd say that Bachmann would announce a LB&SCR condition Brighton Atlantic about the same time as Bluebell announce that Beachy Head is going into LB&SCR condition.

 

I can't see the Bluebell back dating the physical shape to LBSCR days. They certainly did not do that with the E4. It would be just a repaint (and Bachmann could then add it as such to the collectors club!).

[Dunsignalling]

One reason the BR steam and steam-into-diesel transition periods are popular is the sheer variety of locos and stock that can be mixed together.

 

The critical issue for any manufacturer is deciding on his target market. The higher the costs of tooling [i.e. what you have to spend before you can make anything] the larger the target audience you need to identify. In general, the further you stray from living memory, the greater will be the fall off in unit sales and the higher the unit cost. 

 

To put 'living memory' into context, my late father was born in 1927 so was eleven when Mallard did her 126 mph and twenty when the railways were nationalized. I was born in 1952, in Axminster, and remember seeing the Adams Radials in daily service, though I became far more familiar with the Ivatt 2MTs that succeeded them.

 

I know that one doesn't need to have seen the railways of a given period (or even nation) to be inspired to model them but, for many of us, it is the scene that got us hooked on railways that we want to portray. Some people can be nostalgic for a period before they were born, but many more hanker after the time of their youth. Apart from anything else, it gives one an instinct for what "looks right".

 

Edwardian, who is a keen advocate of pre-group r-t-r models says "make it and they will buy" but is he right? Effectively, pre-group and r-t-r parted company with the introduction of Hornby Dublo (yes, that long ago) apart from a few "dabbles" by Tri-ang and I doubt that will ever be reversed to any great extent. 

 

Commercial viability of today's r-t-r "pre-group" models depends on many more people buying them for reasons outside their usual interests than those few who model the company/era represented (if the latter are attracted by r-t-r models at all). Models of preserved locos, like the SECR C and Radial No.488 tend to muddy the waters as it is very difficult to apportion people's motivation for purchasing - will they best be followed-up by models of other (extinct) SECR/LSWR classes or further examples of locos they have seen in preservation?

 

Higher prices, which show no sign of levelling off any time soon, inevitably lead to a greater focus on our main interests. I have long pursued a "chosen theme plus the odd lollipop" purchasing pattern but, when push comes to shove, for me at least, it's the "lollipops" that will stay on the shelf.

 

It's very easy to urge Hornby, Bachmann etc. to put their money where your mouth is but, in general, both have a pretty good grasp of their markets and won't do anything reckless.

 

John

Edited August 11, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Clearwater]

I think the dynamics of pre grouping rtr are interesting. Clearly it is before just about anyone's living memory. So what's the interest and how is it fuelled? Certainly models of preserved locos seen in operation drive sales but that then drives the modeller to think "I want my c class in an authentic setting. What should go alongside it?" That creates an interest in other pre grouping types. Certainly the gorgeous colour palate used helps!

[Dunsignalling]

I think the dynamics of pre grouping rtr are interesting. Clearly it is before just about anyone's living memory. So what's the interest and how is it fuelled? Certainly models of preserved locos seen in operation drive sales but that then drives the modeller to think "I want my c class in an authentic setting. What should go alongside it?" That creates an interest in other pre grouping types. Certainly the gorgeous colour palate used helps!

To have anything approaching adult memory of 1923 (let alone pre-1923) you have to be well over 100 years old.

 

The stuff required to put Bachmann's C Class No.592, Birch Grove and Hornby's Radial No.488 into an authentic setting is already available: green Maunsell, Bulleid and BR Mk1 coaches plus some very nice r-t-p Bluebell buildings from Bachmann. The same will apply to Beachy Head.

 

Am I the only one who finds the majority of pre-group liveries rather "Chocolate Box".

 

John

Edited August 11, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green]

I think the dynamics of pre grouping rtr are interesting. Clearly it is before just about anyone's living memory. So what's the interest and how is it fuelled? Certainly models of preserved locos seen in operation drive sales but that then drives the modeller to think "I want my c class in an authentic setting. What should go alongside it?" That creates an interest in other pre grouping types. Certainly the gorgeous colour palate used helps!

There will 'always' be a market for B.R. Mk1s, say, because their geographical coverage was universal - but the further you go back in time the smaller your potential audience becomes simply beacuse the Companies become smaller ............. it'll be interesting to see how popular the forthcoming 'birdcage' coaches are in S.E.C.R. 'Dark Lake' ( it might depend on how 'gorgeous' Bachmann's rendition of that colour is ) : I feel malachite green might have sold better ( wider geographical covereage - but did all such coaches carry it ? )  -  but maybe that's for the future ?

[Edwardian]

I think that, without adequate support, Pre and early Grouping will remain neglected, simply because they are fairly inaccessible to new entrants and to the "average enthusiast" who has yet to complete his 20 years before the mast with soldering iron and bow-pen.  All respect to those who have, of course, but potential interest in pre-Grouping may be found amongst we lesser mortals too.

 

John Dunsignalling is the Private Fraser of this Platoon, but, in between his cold water bucket heaving, he is right to question whether that support is likely or feasible.   

 

If we want even a modest joined-up release programme, this must be organised from the fan base and the risk taken away from the manufacturer.  The problem I see is that the numbers of fans who will agree to a particular version of a particular prototype might prove too modest to make a project feasible, as this constituency will exclude those who never heard of the initiative, or who would decide to buy only after they saw the thing in all its glory.  I am describing something of a vicious circle.  

 

To return to the case of the Bachmann Atlantic, I simply bemoan the inanity, against a background of random occasional pre-Group releases, of choosing not to take the opportunity of providing a version of the Atlantic that would compliment the existing pre-Group release. 

 

A decision disappointing in its timidity, as it limits potential interest in two models, the H2 and the E4.  Duh! Bachmann, Duh!

[Wickham Green]

To have anything approaching adult memory of 1923 (let alone pre-1923) you have to be well over 100 years old.

 

......

 

Am I the only one who finds the majority of pre-group liveries rather "Chocolate Box".

 

John

Probably not QUITE that old as pre-grouping liveries - albeit often with post-grouping insignia - lasted well into the 'thirties ....... the lower the 'caste' of the item, the longer, of course.

 

Anyway trains, like chocolate boxes, were decorated to appeal to the taste of their day ............... though I certainly don't fancy the chocolate advertised by many of today's 'Train Operators' .................. not to mention a certain episode when everything was wrapped in matt blue wirth a white zig-zag : "This is the Age of the Snickers" ....... UGH !

[No Decorum]

I can't see the Bluebell back dating the physical shape to LBSCR days. They certainly did not do that with the E4. It would be just a repaint (and Bachmann could then add it as such to the collectors club!).

I think you might very well be right about the Collectors’s Club. A relatively small run produced at the same time as the main-range models. Modified tooling unlikely, though.

[JSpencer]

Probably not QUITE that old as pre-grouping liveries - albeit often with post-grouping insignia - lasted well into the 'thirties ....... the lower the 'caste' of the item, the longer, of course.

 

Anyway trains, like chocolate boxes, were decorated to appeal to the taste of their day ............... though I certainly don't fancy the chocolate advertised by many of today's 'Train Operators' .................. not to mention a certain episode when everything was wrapped in matt blue wirth a white zig-zag : "This is the Age of the Snickers" ....... UGH !

 

It was actually the age of the "Marathon" back then, unless you happened to buy yours on the continent.

[Edwardian]

I think you might very well be right about the Collectors’s Club. A relatively small run produced at the same time as the main-range models. Modified tooling unlikely, though.

 

Oh, great, another useless 'as preserved' release.  Can't wait. 

[Edwardian]

I was always surprised by their choice of doing an E4, considering the prototype is not exactly amongst Bluebells most popular, most of the former LBSCR coaching stock was scrapped by BR days, and - as far as I could tell - only one manufacturer did a kit of this class which was hardly known (which I nearly brought!).

Despite that, I awarded Bachmann 4 sales of the E4.

 

 

 

It was rather wonderful of Bachmann, though, wasn't it?

 

Pity they can't or won't follow up.

 

Just as one swallow does not make a summer, the umber E4 and the plainly lined C Class and lake Birdcages hardly open the floodgates to pre-Grouping layouts set in the south east, BUT, they could be a good start and I, for one, am very happy about them.

 

Just for a moment, with the popularity of the SECR H Class and the advent of the H2, I thought this might have been the start of a whole new adventure ...

 

Then I work up to find I was still living in everyone's else's 1950s!

[JSpencer]

It was rather wonderful of Bachmann, though, wasn't it?

 

Pity they can't or won't follow up.

 

Just as one swallow does not make a summer, the umber E4 and the plainly lined C Class and lake Birdcages hardly open the floodgates to pre-Grouping layouts set in the south east, BUT, they could be a good start and I, for one, am very happy about them.

 

Just for a moment, with the popularity of the SECR H Class and the advent of the H2, I thought this might have been the start of a whole new adventure ...

 

Then I work up to find I was still living in everyone's else's 1950s!

 

Oh, I feel that the SECR H class may not be so far away, if the rumors are true. Big RTR manufacturers aside, even lining kit transfers are somewhat rare, especially complex SECR ones so I guess my Wainwright J will end in BR black (before learning to use Bow pens, you need to find some place that actually sells them). And as for 4 or 6 wheel coaches.....

 

In any case if my eventual SECR layout ends up being somewhat unique (with the odd occasional visit from the LBSCR, KESR etc), who am I to complain?

[Edwardian]

Oh, I feel that the SECR H class may not be so far away, if the rumors are true. Big RTR manufacturers aside, even lining kit transfers are somewhat rare, especially complex SECR ones so I guess my Wainwright J will end in BR black (before learning to use Bow pens, you need to find some place that actually sells them). And as for 4 or 6 wheel coaches.....

 

In any case if my eventual SECR layout ends up being somewhat unique (with the odd occasional visit from the LBSCR, KESR etc), who am I to complain?

 Indeed, yours sounds like a plan.

 

SE Fincast, who do a white-metal H Class, that really I should invest in, and several other SECR kits, produce the full Wainwright lining.  Somewhere on RMWeb I recall someone lining out a 'plain' C class, though I am note sure if he used the Finecast transfers.

 

When I get round to my SE/Brighton project, that is the way I think I will go.  The Bachmann Birdcages will save building a couple of trains worth of stock, so, as they say, every little helps!

[Wickham Green]

It was actually the age of the "Marathon" back then, unless you happened to buy yours on the continent.

I did notice there was probably a chronological inconsistency in what I said - but who'd buy a chocolate bar called "Snickers" - whatever that means - instead of "Marathon" with its implication of prowess and endurance ? ......... I never have !

[JSpencer]

I did notice there was probably a chronological inconsistency in what I said - but who'd buy a chocolate bar called "Snickers" - whatever that means - instead of "Marathon" with its implication of prowess and endurance ? ......... I never have !

 

FWIW TWIX used to be called Raider on the continent but is now called Twix.

 

At the time they were advertising the "Twix twin pack", I was playing with the "Trix twin track" that was handed down to me. Even back then I wanted an Atlantic, and I think the H2 project at the Bluebell started at the same time (say 1990) as I remember the boiler laying around back then even if it was officially announced back in 2000.

Edited August 11, 2016 by JSpencer

[Edwardian]

I did notice there was probably a chronological inconsistency in what I said - but who'd buy a chocolate bar called "Snickers" - whatever that means - instead of "Marathon" with its implication of prowess and endurance ? ......... I never have !

 

Yep, that's about as bonkers as deciding to produce only an ex-LBSC loco.

 

Now it seems clear that Bachmann have determined to knife the Pre-Groupers on this one, it's time to take my bat and ball home, or, rather, cross this off my list of relevant topics, and leave you all in peace!

 

Thank you all for your patience!

[Wickham Green]

....... the H2 project at the Bluebell started at the same time (say 1990) as I remember the boiler laying around back then even if it was officially announced back in 2000.

Weren't there a couple of other ( ex-L.N.E.R.) boilers found at the same time / place ? .................... they don't seem to feature in other 'new build' projects : were they just too far gone ??!?

[JSpencer]

Weren't there a couple of other ( ex-L.N.E.R.) boilers found at the same time / place ? .................... they don't seem to feature in other 'new build' projects : were they just too far gone ??!?

 

It always amazes me how people find such items laying around decades after they were thought to be long ceased.

 

I vaguely remember seeing a photo of some (maybe 3 or 4) Atlantic boilers (probably ex GNR ones) being used to provide steam for a factory. The chimney's had been made taller - about 30ft taller. I can only guess that when the factory closed, there were left there and maybe it was one of these (or another sharing a similar fate elsewhere) that ended up on the Bluebell.

 

Being outdoors for so long, I am amazed that the one was saved is still even usable especially as it spent probably at least another decade sitting outdoors on Bluebells grounds before anything was done on it.

 

I suspect we will find a Bullied diesel turning up someday after someone brought one from the scrap merchants for use caravan with built in electrical generator.

[Wickham Green]

It always amazes me how people find such items laying around decades after they were thought to be long ceased.

You obviously never went carriage body hunting in north east Scotland .......................

[The Stationmaster]

Yep, that's about as bonkers as deciding to produce only an ex-LBSC loco.

 

Now it seems clear that Bachmann have determined to knife the Pre-Groupers on this one, it's time to take my bat and ball home, or, rather, cross this off my list of relevant topics, and leave you all in peace!

 

Thank you all for your patience!

 

I don't think that's really what it's all about - honest guv, I really don't.

 

At the moment it seems to be the situation that BR liveried locos sell best (i.e. offer the best chance of making a profit - which is why these concerns are all in business).  Pre-group locos generally stand something of a chance if they're recognisable to today's market and that means they're either in a museum or are somewhere else in preserved condition and preferably puffing up & down in such a state.  And according to what I have heard the latter - or rather the fact that it is happening - can actually improve sales figures and has done so in at least one case.  It's either that or a spot of novelty or a commissioner prepared to take (and pay for) the risk who leads to most pre-group appearances in terms of locos in recent years.

 

Are smaller producers/commissioners more flexible asks/suggests Edwardian.  The simple answer I suspect s probably not - they demand minimum run sizes so if it's completely from scratch you can reckon on 1,000 off with perhaps livery variation over batches of X00 within that thousand and maybe minor detail changes and you have to cough up £100,000 plus (at pre-Brexit prices) before you see a single finished model.  So you need some big numbers for funding unless there are folk with deep pockets around.  A while back another RMweb member contacted me about my interest, if any, in a certain GWR loco and would I guarantee to buy one if it was commissioned; although out of period I would like one as a 'nice to have' but it would have to be final, BR (just) condition although that matched the 1930s livery apart.  In the end he simply couldn't find enough folk who were interested - fora  GWR loco ideally suited to 1930s layouts and just creeping into the BR era - so the project never took off.

 

As far as the atlantic is concerned the pic below illustrates some component parts of the NRM/Locomotion commissioned GN engine