Prototype for everything corner.

[73c]

56094 with the mix of 00 & O gauge numbers and I think melmerby, was just pulling your leg.

[JN]

1 hour ago, 73c said:

56094 with the mix of 00 & O gauge numbers and I think melmerby, was just pulling your leg.

Sure. I struggle detecting humour in written form.

[Michael Hodgson]

17 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Mirfield 1966 by Terry Campbell

 

"Jubilee 45694 Bellerophon makes a lot of smoke passing Mirfield with a Saturday Whit Bank Holiday extra to Blackpool"

 

 

You've got Mirfield scheme speed signals in the background of that shot. 

That's a prototype that I don't think I've ever seen them modelled.

[montyburns56]

Mirfield 1967 by Terry Campbell

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Yep, more Mirfield speed signals in that view too, originally 5-aspect, but reduced to four-aspect by the date of these views.  Sadly that scheme was decommisioned in 1970, but being completely non-standard it caused issues for drivers needing to learn that route.

 

There's an example preserved at KWVR inside a carriage shed at Oxenhope

https://signalbox.org/signals/lms-speed-signalling/

[russ p]

On 17/04/2022 at 13:20, Michael Hodgson said:

You've got Mirfield scheme speed signals in the background of that shot. 

That's a prototype that I don't think I've ever seen them modelled.

 

Probably because no one understood them! I've spoken to drivers who worked with them and seems few understood them fully 

[montyburns56]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

Probably because no one understood them! I've spoken to drivers who worked with them and seems few understood them fully 

 

I read the page that Michael linked to about how they worked and I quickly realized why they were abandoned. I think that the designer must have later moved on to developing quiz shows.

 

 

 

[montyburns56]

"Now sir, this is a 20 zone and you were doing 25..."

 

Bradford 2011 by Terry Campbell

 

 

[Pandora]

On 16/04/2022 at 19:19, montyburns56 said:

Mirfield 1966 by Terry Campbell

 

"Jubilee 45694 Bellerophon makes a lot of smoke passing Mirfield with a Saturday Whit Bank Holiday extra to Blackpool"

 

 

I'm aware of the SR green coaches on the Woodhead line,  not aware of their presence on the trans-pennine routes, where were the SR coaches allocated as  maintenance depots and regular routes?

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Probably because no one understood them! I've spoken to drivers who worked with them and seems few understood them fully 

Not too far removed from Modern US signalling I guess.

 

[keefer]

Another link: https://www.jmri.org/xml/signals/LMS-1932/index.shtml

(a site for layout signalling control, i think?)

Edited April 18, 2022 by keefer

[Michael Hodgson]

44 minutes ago, keefer said:

Another link: https://www.jmri.org/xml/signals/LMS-1932/index.shtml

(a site for layout signalling control, i think?)

A useful link, though it does muddy the waters a little by including the Watford New Line signalling in the same document as the Mirfield aspects.

[montyburns56]

Newcastle to Liverpool at Mirfield 1987 by Terry Campbell

 

 

[montyburns56]

Mirfield 1990  by Terry Campbell

 

 

 

[SHMD]

Is that all Heaton could dredge-up for a Newcastle-Liverpool diagram?

(Wish I was on it.)

 

 

Kev.

 

[62613]

Second one is nearer Heaton Lodge Jct., no? Go with SHMD on the second part!

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 17/04/2022 at 13:20, Michael Hodgson said:

You've got Mirfield scheme speed signals in the background of that shot. 

That's a prototype that I don't think I've ever seen them modelled.

I went to Mirfield specifically to take photos of the signals and it was a delightfully dank and miserable day so great for taking colour pictures of colour light signal aspects.  Back came my slides fr om Kodak with a note about under exposure and suggesting i should take photos in better light conditions.

 

The signals were basically speed signals but with a dash of splitting signal thrown in.  They did in fact share one feature with the Watford New Line signals and the development of the two systems was linked in some of the basic theory and in engineering terms. 

[hexagon789]

One thing I've never found out about the Mirfield scheme are the actual speeds - there are references to slow and medium speed etc but not what speed those actually were!

[Michael Hodgson]

13 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I went to Mirfield specifically to take photos of the signals and it was a delightfully dank and miserable day so great for taking colour pictures of colour light signal aspects.

 

Pity I didn't do the same, but I don't think I knew about them whilst they were still there.

 

I think the difficutly with that scheme was that mixing of junction signalling with speed signalling.  In a purely speed signalled system, you shouldn't really need route knowledge, you just need traction knowledge and drive within the indicated speeds.  I don't know to what extent other administrations rely on route learning or whether they treat drivers like motorist who once they have driving licence are qualifided to go anywhere. 

[woodenhead]

Green class 40 with Mk3s

 

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSTUTanaGh8

 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Pity I didn't do the same, but I don't think I knew about them whilst they were still there.

 

I think the difficutly with that scheme was that mixing of junction signalling with speed signalling.  In a purely speed signalled system, you shouldn't really need route knowledge, you just need traction knowledge and drive within the indicated speeds.  I don't know to what extent other administrations rely on route learning or whether they treat drivers like motorist who once they have driving licence are qualifided to go anywhere. 

SNCF route learning procedure would be amazing to any person with knowledge of how it is (was) done in Britain.   Normally a Driver given a new route to learn but with no change to his traction knowledge will get 2 or 3 days to look over the route - even if it is hundreds of miles.   The reason for this is that SNCF signalling, and signal spacing, is very highly standardised on the principal routes and the Driver will in any case have in front of him on the desk a livre ligne telling him everything he needs to know about speeds and signal locations etc.   Just take a cab trip over any LGV line and you can quickly see just how easy it is to learn the road on them..

 

Generally British route learning tends - or did in the past - to take longer than on most continental administrations because the signal aspects will give you any restriction of speed different from normal linespeed and such speeds are also usually highly standardised.

Edited April 21, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[montyburns56]

Penzance 1985 by KDH Archive

 

 

[montyburns56]

Roose 1967  by KDH Archive

 

 

[melmerby]

Often in Dry weather Steam tours can be restricted because of the possibility of lineside fires, diesels aren't affected.

This from the US suggests they might need to re-think that😄

 

 

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Often in Dry weather Steam tours can be restricted because of the possibility of lineside fires, diesels aren't affected.

This from the US suggests they might need to re-think that😄

 

 

I know of a case where misuse of a level crossing led to a significant fire. It was a crossing on the Nimes- Beziers line, and a car pulled out of the adjacent Cave Co-operative as the barriers were descending. The train driver did a full emergency brake application, and stopped the train, but not without sparks and bits of red-hot brake-shoe flying everywhere. The line-side vegetation was tinder dry, and naturally caught light; the fire spread to some of the wagons, causing a failure of the catenary.

At this point, the person writing the Control Log dropped the clinical style usual to such documents, and continued 'and if that wasn't enough...'