Prototype for everything corner.

[PatB]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

 

 

It has one possible problem from an operating model railway perspective, it is probably worked by horse (note the cleats on the bridge deck) unless it was gravity right to left, capstan haulage left to right (could that be a guide roller on the bank to the right of boat?). But quite wonderful withal. 

 

 

I was wondering about weight restrictions. Maybe a compromise would be to shunt the siding with a reach wagon or several. 

[billbedford]

36 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It has one possible problem from an operating model railway perspective, it is probably worked by horse (note the cleats on the bridge deck) unless it was gravity right to left, capstan haulage left to right (could that be a guide roller on the bank to the right of boat?). But quite wonderful withal. 

1

 

How did they get the loco into the works then?

 

Interestingly the 1883/4 1:500 map shows a single bridge arranged at right angles to the canal with wagon turntables at each end of the track across the bridge.

[melmerby]

That Tirpentwys Black Vein wagon doesn't look like any of the RTR ones offered!

[Wickham Green]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That Tirpentwys Black Vein wagon doesn't look like any of the RTR ones offered!

But then most ready-to-run P.O. wagons are based on 1923 standard RCH 12T vehicles ( or similar stretched to 17'6'' ) - whatever 'load' is stated or livery date.

[eastglosmog]

6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

 

 

It has one possible problem from an operating model railway perspective, it is probably worked by horse (note the cleats on the bridge deck) unless it was gravity right to left, capstan haulage left to right (could that be a guide roller on the bank to the right of boat?). But quite wonderful withal. 

 

I suspect the sidings were indeed horse worked, don't think there would be enough fall for reliable gravity operation.  The "guide roller" however, is a bollard, probably to tie the boat up to while operating the bridge.

Looking at the rather better quality reproduction in Canals in Wales, it looks like the bridge was operated by man power rotating a windlass on the towpath (right hand) side to haul down the balance beam on the right. Not entirely clear on the photo, but the other leaf may have been hauled up by chains attached to the towpath side leaf as there does not appear to be a windlass on the other side. 

There is one oddity  - there is no horse visible to tow the boat!

Edited June 5, 2019 by eastglosmog

[Colin_McLeod]

It must be one of those new fangled horseless boats with a propeller.

[billbedford]

36 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

I suspect the sidings were indeed horse worked, don't think there would be enough fall for reliable gravity operation.  The "guide roller" however, is a bollard, probably to tie the boat up to while operating the bridge.

 

 

Look through the arms of the bridge and you will see the spectacle plate of a loco in the works sidings.  

 

46 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

Looking at the rather better quality reproduction in Canals in Wales, it looks like the bridge was operated by man power rotating a windlass on the towpath (right hand) side to haul down the balance beam on the right. Not entirely clear on the photo, but the other leaf may have been hauled up by chains attached to the towpath side leaf as there does not appear to be a windlass on the other side. 

 

There is a man standing on each side of the bridge, a handwheel, presumably working a windlass, on the far upright on the righthand side. The chain from the windlass to the balance weight is just visible on the righthand side and more obviously on the left side. The windlass wheel should be on the near side of the uprights on the lefthand bank, but that area id totally dark in this photo. The inference is that there were two windlasses one on each bank each needing a man to operate them.

 

36 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

There is one oddity  - there is no horse visible to tow the boat!

 

 

It's hiding behind the signal post -- really.

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 it is probably worked by horse

 

18 minutes ago, billbedford said:

It's hiding behind the signal post -- really.

 

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

It must be one of those new fangled horseless boats with a propeller.

Nah! You're all wrong

It's an electric boat - 12v DC like the loco.

[Colin_McLeod]

With a propeller perhaps!  lol

[petethemole]

With the rudder in that position he's presumably stopped to wait for the bridge (or the photographer). I'm curious about the curved pole or implement the boatman's holding.

[PatB]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

 

 

Nah! You're all wrong

It's an electric boat - 12v DC like the loco.

I've been assuming there was a tunnel under the canal to accommodate a Triang Dock Shunter with a big magnet attached to the top of it a la Jack Dugdale's Ortogo Railway. 

[eastglosmog]

10 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

It must be one of those new fangled horseless boats with a propeller.

With a rudder and stern like that, no way!  Actually, by 1914 there was very little traffic on the Monmouthshire Canal - a  couple of boats a week or so.  I suspect a staged photo by the GWR (it is credited to the British Transport Commission) for some purpose (like proving the canal could still be made to work and they had not neglected the maintenance).

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

19 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

How did they get the loco into the works then?

Don't know in this specific instance! But methods aplenty offer. Lay temporary track and drag it up a ramp, crane it out whole or in pieces, wagon load it in pieces, or do the work on site, are thoughts that come to mind. This is an engineering works and 'striking down' heavy kit to move it is basic stuff ...

 

It's not just the weakness of the bridge, consider the curvature of the line over it. That's down to one chain in my estimation, which is why it has a check rail even though it is only wagons going on it. Other than tram types, the limit for an 0-4-0 was typically well over two chains

[billbedford]

6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Don't know in this specific instance! But methods aplenty offer. Lay temporary track and drag it up a ramp, crane it out whole or in pieces, wagon load it in pieces, or do the work on site, are thoughts that come to mind. This is an engineering works and 'striking down' heavy kit to move it is basic stuff ...

 

It's not just the weakness of the bridge, consider the curvature of the line over it. That's down to one chain in my estimation, which is why it has a check rail even though it is only wagons going on it. Other than tram types, the limit for an 0-4-0 was typically well over two chains

 

But diminutive locos did exist. A NER class K 0-4-0T had a wheelbase of 6' and with a fully loaded weight of 15T 10c were lighter than most loaded 10T coal wagons. There were, no doubt, other privately built locos of similar size.

[micklner]

As above ex NER LNER Y8 the wagons as said is longer.

 

 

[jonny777]

Can someone enlighten me to what might have happened here? 

 

For a few seconds I couldn't quite get to grips with a DC unit and HST on adjacent station tracks, but then I realised it was St Pancras, and the single car seems to be attached to a 4-car AC unit. From a c1992 batch I have just scanned.

 

 

 

[brushman47544]

It looks like one of the ex-Tyneside 2EPB driving trailers converted to sandite use to run with Class 317 and 319 units. I think there were two conversions, DTS 77101 and 77109 were renumbered ADB977578 and ADB977579.

[Metr0Land]

Clearer view of ...579 here:

 

 

[jonny777]

Thanks very much. It seems the photographer (whose collection I now have) did not have that angle to work with on his visit. 

[73c]

Look's like a SU ( Selhurst ) sticker on it.

[brushman47544]

If the air horns are anything to go by, jonny777’s photo is of ...578

[keefer]

Great pics, I wasn't aware of these (notice the tightlock coupler and lack of buffers)

I initially thought it was one of the more usual SR conversions, but they had buckeyes etc and air pipes

[russ p]

Was one of these dumped at etches park until a few years ago?

[jonny777]

Another excuse for running a motley collection of old stock of mixed freight/passenger variety - and you can have two different liveried locos on the front as well. 

 

This is 47186 and 47332 passing Lancaster in 1992. The exhausts suggest both are working - but not guaranteed. 

 

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

This is 47186 and 47332 passing Lancaster in 1992

Is that a goods brake after the coaches? And is it a BR standard one? Doesn't look quite right to me.