RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 BCB is also a lot bigger ( higher bulbs) so the light is less concentrated in the layout. Is it worth trying a paper cover over the LEDs to diffuse the light - possibly a slightly coloured paper ? Yes, that's a good point on Fryers the light source is only 320mm above rail height. The other thing I noticed is that once you only have the layout in your field of vision the light looks OK, but it gets confusing when you see warmer light surrounding the layout - which would be less of an issue on a bigger layout. One suggestion from the weekend which I may follow up on was the use of a "straw" coloured filter to warm the light up a bit. Are the old lights beyond repair... I know that you had a go but went for a new set with the deadline imminent. Andy Some of them (as they are in sections, not a continuous length) are usable, may be possible to repair some of the other bits - or I could be lazy and replace them with another 5m reel for between £10 and £15. Oh very interesting.... I am keen to use LED strips on a 3600long layout. All just thinking about really but the problem of daylight/ warm white and intensity seem to be issues. I do wonder how many lumens your set up was kicking out as this is the intensity measurement! These are 2000 lumens; which I suspect is possibly overkill for lighting an area which measures just 1435 x 400 x 320? This compares to 270 lumens for the 3000K warm whites which I had before. Full details of the ones I used here I will be keen to see if a warm white light would be better for our uses. The reason why I would use these lights is they are slim line, 12Volt and theoretically able to adjust the length and use a miniature plug and socket to join behind the fascia! I think if you can get the colour temp (and intensity) right this type of lighting is near perfect for lighting a layout. Just some experimentation required to get the look that you want and (in my case) gain an understanding of colour temperatures and intensity. Careful with the mini plug and socket as this was the point which failed on my original set. They had socket and pin arrangement soldered directing to the light strip; my replacement set has a short length of wire and a socket attached which seems a better arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 Here's a thought. If I add a set of 3000K warm white to the existing 5500K cool white, both connected to separate dimmers, will I end up with lighting which can be anywhere between 3000K and 5500K depending on how the dimmers are set? Could maybe vary the dimmers throughout the day of an exhibition to represent different daylight or weather conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Take a look at some Aquarist forums - those guys really know their business when utilizing existing color tubes, led’s, etc., etc. Color temperature really changes depending on whereabouts in the World you are. To render typical UK light is a lot different than the southern States of the USA, for example. Trust this helps. Best, Pete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cook Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 These are 2000 lumens; which I suspect is possibly overkill for lighting an area which measures just 1435 x 400 x 320? This compares to 270 lumens for the 3000K warm whites which I had before. Full details of the ones I used here I suspect that the 2000 lumens of one set and 270 lumens of the other set are being compared incorrectly The one that specifies 2000 lumens is for the full 5M lenght and the one that states 270 lumens is per metre Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 There is tricolour LEDs that you can change the colour. I am not sure if it is designed to hold a colour output. They usually come with a remote control so you can have rock and roll as well! All of this is a interesting discussion and reminding me of Uni way too much... Building Science in 1993! I can see the LEDs in the strips allow the lights to be light weight not need a large structure to hold them up! I have used narrow fluros but they weight a little too much and need a fascia to avoid glare in the viewers eyes. I think LEDS avoid these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted September 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) On Shepherds, I have one of these sets : http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/5-metre-rgb-colour-changing-led-lighting-kit-a24lj Stops me getting bored during the quiet moments... Edited September 23, 2015 by Stubby47 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Taking pictures of layouts can be very difficult at exhibitions taking in to account the layout lighting and the ambient lighting in the hall. Most modern cameras have some way of adjusting the colour balance to suit different light temperatures and these are usually better than using the auto setting which is usually no more than a best guess solution. The best way to do it, if you can, is to set the cameras white balance manually using the layout lighting and the background lighting. On your layout I presume the backscene has white in it and you could take the reading off of that and set white balance from that. Once that is done nearly all your photographs should come out as you see the layout by eye. It's amazing what the eye and brain cancels out to show you the colours you see. In the copy of your picture below I have adjusted the colour balance using the white steps on the wagon as a guide. I hope hope it improves it just a little bit. I did see this at Scaleforum but unfortunately did not get any pictures. It's a nice small layout. All the best. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 I suspect that the 2000 lumens of one set and 270 lumens of the other set are being compared incorrectly The one that specifies 2000 lumens is for the full 5M lenght and the one that states 270 lumens is per metre Geoff Sort of. The 2000 lumens set is 5m long and I've used the full length of it to light the 1.435m long layout (the strip doubles back on itself to give three rows of LEDs within the fascia. The 270 lumens set was only 1.5m long, and I shortened this to 1.4m to fit within the layout fascia. So, I have 2000 lumens in the current cool white setup, compared to around 260 lumens from the warm white set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 Take a look at some Aquarist forums - those guys really know their business when utilizing existing color tubes, led’s, etc., etc. Good idea, hadn't thought of that. Somebody I spoke to at S4um said it looked a bit like a fish tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 There is tricolour LEDs that you can change the colour. I am not sure if it is designed to hold a colour output. They usually come with a remote control so you can have rock and roll as well! Some of the colour change ones I looked at seem to do any colour except white! On Shepherds, I have one of these sets : http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/5-metre-rgb-colour-changing-led-lighting-kit-a24lj Stops me getting bored during the quiet moments... My warm white set was from Maplin. Worth noting that they work out relatively expensive compared to some of the ones available from sellers on Amazon and eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 Taking pictures of layouts can be very difficult at exhibitions taking in to account the layout lighting and the ambient lighting in the hall. Most modern cameras have some way of adjusting the colour balance to suit different light temperatures and these are usually better than using the auto setting which is usually no more than a best guess solution. The best way to do it, if you can, is to set the cameras white balance manually using the layout lighting and the background lighting. On your layout I presume the backscene has white in it and you could take the reading off of that and set white balance from that. Once that is done nearly all your photographs should come out as you see the layout by eye. It's amazing what the eye and brain cancels out to show you the colours you see. In the copy of your picture below I have adjusted the colour balance using the white steps on the wagon as a guide. I hope hope it improves it just a little bit. I did see this at Scaleforum but unfortunately did not get any pictures. It's a nice small layout. All the best. fryers lane.jpg That does look better, thanks. Yes, the backscene is just a white primer/undercoat. Most of the recent photos I've taken have just been quick snaps on my phone's camera. I need to dig out my camera and have a look at setting the white balance manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 Interesting... Auto white balance: Manually adjusted: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 You can see in your pictures that the auto white balance on your camera has problems with rendering an accurate colour balance with some lighting. Some cameras seem to cope with this better than others. But your manual setting seems to have captured a perfect picture. Sometimes it is worth carrying a small piece of white card in your bag that you can place in a composition to set the right colour balance. Nice picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2015 Did anyone else see Mark and Mike's gurning competition? No, well here you go, but who won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waveydavey Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 How do you find operating from the front Mark? It's something I've considered for the new incarnation of Longcarse but I'm not so keen on blocking the punters views while I spend ten minutes trying to couple up an awkward three link coupling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 How do you find operating from the front Mark? It's something I've considered for the new incarnation of Longcarse but I'm not so keen on blocking the punters views while I spend ten minutes trying to couple up an awkward three link coupling. Just butting in if I may, I now always build my small Layouts to operate from the front, (Glen Roy, Loch Leven, Fiddlers Yard, Trebudoc and my new one West Shed) I find its great to talk to the public and let the Kids press the Horn or Start Up buttons which gets them involved. I also feel its better when questions are asked and demoing things like Kadee's etc. As for doing it with three Links, well I did try that with my O Gauge, Trebudoc, and found it a pain moving along in front of the public unless there was a barrier. Of course the other bonus is that I can put it against a wall at home and PLAY with it and you also get the punters eye view as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted September 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2015 Mike is the winner surely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 24, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2015 How do you find operating from the front Mark? It's something I've considered for the new incarnation of Longcarse but I'm not so keen on blocking the punters views while I spend ten minutes trying to couple up an awkward three link coupling. I like it, particularly at Forum/Expo type events; its worked well with BCB too. That said, I made a decision to move away from three links to AJs to avoid the need to block the view of punters - well that's the plan once I get them working properly. Because of the height, operating from the rear would mean standing on boxes, which I did on Foundry Lane, but was that doesn't make for a particularly comfortable way to spend a weekend. In theory, once I get everything working Fryers would work with an operator sitting on a bar stool at either end and the turnout and magnet switches are placed so whoever is at the right hand end also looks after those (as he is close to where the signal box was at Bloxwich). Should be a nice relaxed way to spend a weekend, rather than worrying about falling off a toolbox behind the backscene!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cook Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Did anyone else see Mark and Mike's gurning competition? No, well here you go, but who won? rps20150923_223222.jpg rps20150923_223255.jpg Looks like Mark has an itch that needs scratching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 24, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2015 Looks like Mark has an itch that needs scratchingYou might say building this layout in P4 rather than EM was an attempt to scratch an itch; trouble is the more you scratch, the more it itches ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold John B Posted September 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2015 Mark wins, just for wearing a Wonderstuff t-shirt... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 24, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2015 Mark wins, just for wearing a Wonderstuff t-shirt... After the layout lighting, my Stuffies shirt was the second most popular thing for people to talk to me about on Sunday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted September 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2015 Interesting... Auto white balance: DSCF3815.JPG Manually adjusted: DSCF3823.JPG Can't see the difference myself.. Is it 00 gauge? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted September 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2015 How do you find operating from the front Mark? It's something I've considered for the new incarnation of Longcarse but I'm not so keen on blocking the punters views while I spend ten minutes trying to couple up an awkward three link coupling. Black Country blues is operated from the front and we have found it to be mostly beneficial. The photo back screen means that operation from the rear is impossible. at the front you can chat to the viewers and we can generally stay out of folks way, the occasional sticky loco may need a push GRRRRR The only down side is small intimate shows that have no barriers.. At the DEMU show in 2014 at times it was impossible to see the layout.. Mark of Wondersuff t shirt fame and myself were taking it in turns to pear through a 6" square space between some blokes head, his shoulder and the layouts lighting facia. Communication with the operator at the other end was impossible... He just couldn't see the various finger gestures... Andy This is a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted September 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 25, 2015 The walkie talkies we experimented were no better either, other than annoying the security staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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