Ron Ron Ron Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They could replace Thomas with their own children's character, "Hornby the little tank engine". A familiar storyline............ little Hornby arrogantly ignores the warning signs ........and ends up falling down a Mine. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 They could replace Thomas with their own children's character, "Hornby the little tank engine". A familiar storyline............ little Hornby arrogantly ignores the warning signs ........and ends up falling down a Mine. . I could well imagine some 'Little Hornby' stuff on Youtube.... He He He. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 Anyone know if the new R.3228 J94 NCB Kent is prototype?? I have no listing of J94's at Tilmanstone Colliery, Kent. Anyone know which builder?? Trainman 119 In my time there has also been rail traffic from Snowdown and Betteshanger collieries in the Kent coalfield, maybe Chislet, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hattons have just added expected delivery dates for the Hornby 2014 range. It seems I have 9 months to wait for the Network Rail class 37 with TTS..... (before all the inevitable delays...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hattons have just added expected delivery dates for the Hornby 2014 range. and to show likely they are to be met, the BR green Mk1s are shown as 8 August 2014 with the exception of the A version - which if not at the same time one might expect to be later - of the BSK is shown as 4 July 2014. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Whilst I can understand that the timing of products to be made by Sanda Kan might be difficult to predict and/or be put out to the long grass, I was hoping that products coming from the new factories might arrive closer to the expected delivery dates, but now I'm wondering... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I also just received an e-mail from Hattons, but this one informing me that R3125 (Class 5205 steam locomotive 2-8-0T in GWR livery) has been cancelled. Apparently, Hattons has already "pre-sold" (ghastly term, what's wrong with advance order?) its entire allocation of this model from Hornby. I wonder how many others got this e-mail from Hattons (or from other model shops)? Surely, given the long lead time between announcement and arrival, Hornby would work with its customers (model shops) and be able to estimate how big a production run to make. Surely it isn't beyond the capabilities for Hornby to say "we are planning to make a 33XX, due Q4 2014. Please ensure ALL advance orders are submitted by end of Q2 2014" In such a way, Hornby could produce sufficient models to supply all the advance orders plus overage for post advance order cut-off sales. Then we wouldn't have the situation where Big Model Shop has 500 advance orders to fill and Hornby gives them only X (where X is < 500). I confess to being a bit annoyed at Hornby... iD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They could replace Thomas with their own children's character, "Hornby the little tank engine". A familiar storyline............ little Hornby arrogantly ignores the warning signs ........and ends up falling down a Mine. . Once upon a time there were three little tank engines, Polly, Connie and Nellie. They all lived together in a big, but old, shed in Margate. It used to be a busy bustling place but now it is mostly empty. Polly, Connie and Nellie are all very proud of the heritage of their railway. They think it is the very best railway ever, and tell each other stories about the good old days. Polly, Connie and Nellie don't like to listen to anyone outside the shed. They always think that THEY know best. They certainly don't like to tell anyone about what happens inside the shed. (It's probably best if I stop right here.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 I also just received an e-mail from Hattons, but this one informing me that R3125 (Class 5205 steam locomotive 2-8-0T in GWR livery) has been cancelled. Apparently, Hattons has already "pre-sold" (ghastly term, what's wrong with advance order?) its entire allocation of this model from Hornby. I wonder how many others got this e-mail from Hattons (or from other model shops)? Surely, given the long lead time between announcement and arrival, Hornby would work with its customers (model shops) and be able to estimate how big a production run to make. Surely it isn't beyond the capabilities for Hornby to say "we are planning to make a 33XX, due Q4 2014. Please ensure ALL advance orders are submitted by end of Q2 2014" In such a way, Hornby could produce sufficient models to supply all the advance orders plus overage for post advance order cut-off sales. Then we wouldn't have the situation where Big Model Shop has 500 advance orders to fill and Hornby gives them only X (where X is < 500). I confess to being a bit annoyed at Hornby... iD Exactly one of the things I meant, and said, when I posted a long while back about the need for 'trust' in certain part of the model railway business iD - if you 'pre-order' a product and your retailer takes that into account in his orders placed at the start of the year I can't understand how a manufacturer can fail to make the right number of a particular. Surely 'hey Fred we've got orders in for 2,350 whatevers' means the 'manufacturer' actually orders at least 2,350 of them because he knows they are sold and he is guaranteed a return/profit/investment covered as well as 2,350 satisfied customers. I accept, albeit a tad grudgingly but understandably-ish, that in present circumstances Hornby can't guarantee that all 2,350 will arrive in the same container but they still ought to realise they need to get in at least that number. Of course the retailer is also part of the trust thing as you need to rely on him actually getting his order in on time/in time and if he is unreliable in that respect or doesn't match his order to what his customers have ordered you have a problem - needs another layer of trust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Exactly one of the things I meant, and said, when I posted a long while back about the need for 'trust' in certain part of the model railway business iD - if you 'pre-order' a product and your retailer takes that into account in his orders placed at the start of the year I can't understand how a manufacturer can fail to make the right number of a particular. Surely 'hey Fred we've got orders in for 2,350 whatevers' means the 'manufacturer' actually orders at least 2,350 of them because he knows they are sold and he is guaranteed a return/profit/investment covered as well as 2,350 satisfied customers. I accept, albeit a tad grudgingly but understandably-ish, that in present circumstances Hornby can't guarantee that all 2,350 will arrive in the same container but they still ought to realise they need to get in at least that number. Of course the retailer is also part of the trust thing as you need to rely on him actually getting his order in on time/in time and if he is unreliable in that respect or doesn't match his order to what his customers have ordered you have a problem - needs another layer of trust. Whilst the principle looks good, sadly manufacturing isn't quite as easy as this. I know from experience that production volumes can be allocated months, even years in advance. So, if a product is a really strong seller there may not be the opportunity to increase volumes. Some of the products I'm involved with have lead/build times of over a year. The company I work for is planning production volumes for at least 2016 already......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Whilst the principle looks good, sadly manufacturing isn't quite as easy as this. I know from experience that production volumes can be allocated months, even years in advance. So, if a product is a really strong seller there may not be the opportunity to increase volumes. Some of the products I'm involved with have lead/build times of over a year. The company I work for is planning production volumes for at least 2016 already......... Limited production runs are the new thing with Hornby though. At one time (probably within the past 5 years) it was possible to buy anything that was in Hornby's catalogue so production runs have definitely been reduced to ensure a sell-out and recover money quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 This is the time of the year when we place our orders with Hornby for the year ahead, i.e.: what is in the catalogue and on the price lists. We try and encourage customers to pre-order their 'must have' model and then make sure that we order enough from Hornby to satisfy these advance orders plus some for stock. We now seem to be in a situation where these advance orders, be they from me, Hattons or any other retailer, are too many for the production run, and we cannot even satisfy these early advance orders from our customers. We had the farcical situation last year where our first order of the year for one item was refused because the run was sold out before most retailers got their annual order in. I appreciate that China has been giving everyone production problems, but as "The Stationmaster" says, if you have orders for 2,350, produce 2,350 - instant sales for Hornby when they arrive at Margate and money in the bank the following month for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 Exactly one of the things I meant, and said, when I posted a long while back about the need for 'trust' in certain part of the model railway business iD - if you 'pre-order' a product and your retailer takes that into account in his orders placed at the start of the year I can't understand how a manufacturer can fail to make the right number of a particular. Surely 'hey Fred we've got orders in for 2,350 whatevers' means the 'manufacturer' actually orders at least 2,350 of them because he knows they are sold and he is guaranteed a return/profit/investment covered as well as 2,350 satisfied customers. I accept, albeit a tad grudgingly but understandably-ish, that in present circumstances Hornby can't guarantee that all 2,350 will arrive in the same container but they still ought to realise they need to get in at least that number. Of course the retailer is also part of the trust thing as you need to rely on him actually getting his order in on time/in time and if he is unreliable in that respect or doesn't match his order to what his customers have ordered you have a problem - needs another layer of trust. I too have had the same e-mail. It seems that Hornby are doing an 'upgrade'. Good for them. I can wait another 10 months. I just hope that it doesn't come out at the same time as the 64xx, or the Aberdare (only joking folks, honest, honest). I hope they improve the weight, and, whilst they are about it, the tyre profile. A Bachy 56xx will out haul a Hornby 42; it should be around the other way. Perhaps being out of stock is no bad thing, in this instance.... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Limited production runs are the new thing with Hornby though. At one time (probably within the past 5 years) it was possible to buy anything that was in Hornby's catalogue so production runs have definitely been reduced to ensure a sell-out and recover money quickly. Indeed, but as you said "in the last 5 years" the manufacturing lanscape has changed post 2008 crash......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Indeed, but as you said "in the last 5 years" the manufacturing lanscape has changed post 2008 crash......... Thats why I said it. Everything points to Hornby loosing out eventually. I might not care if it did not have an affect on the model railway hobby but I can envisige this occuring...."I used to model trains but Hornby anounced things and they couldn't even be purchased when pre-ordering. I missed out on so much that in the end I thought b*llocks, and took up collecting Ecstasy Pills....". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 I missed out on so much that in the end I thought b*llocks, and took up collecting Ecstasy Pills....". [/i] I'd never, ever think of Hornby driving me to Ecstacy..... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 A Bachy 56xx will out haul a Hornby 42; it should be around the other way. There's an awful lot of empty space in a Hornby 42; even more in a 72. Not a lot in a Bachy 56. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Limited production runs are the new thing with Hornby though. At one time (probably within the past 5 years) it was possible to buy anything that was in Hornby's catalogue so production runs have definitely been reduced to ensure a sell-out and recover money quickly.Bachmann set out their program 2 or more years in advance. Get a full order after say after 6 months, then plan their manufacturing accordingly. Whilst the C class flew off the shelves as soon as it arrived, I doubt anyone who had ordered one had their order cancelled because they could not supply. Recently they announced a Brighton Atlantic and now ask for photoes of it, so you can place an order for one now and I am pretty certain it is not in any production plan at this time. Hornby on the other hand are still doing the same thing when they made it in Margate. Take an order at the start of the year for a predefined plan and hope the plan is correct and will be delivered this year. This is the wrong approach because: 1) you miss a killing on certain items and annoy your customers 2) Or you get stuck with stock that does not move (4 veb in blue for example) 3) with you plroduction now outsourced, it is currently being screwed up anyway For all the difference it makes with their current delays, they might as well say here is what we intend to make in 2 years and only do a production plan once all the orders are placed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I find the combination of this thread and the trade terms & conditions one quite depressing in terms of any good outcome for Hornby. The much vaunted 'new brooms' in management seem to be unable to grasp even the basics of communicating (ignoring aspects of commercial confidentiality) with end customers or retailers. Simon Kohler must be in an very unenviable position, either not knowing what the overall situation is, or not being allowed to communicate other than the 'party line'. Airfix, Scalextric, and the other segments of the empire don't really seem to be in good heart either according to retail friends I have spoken to, so it's not just Hornby. I fear the time left to 'turn the tanker round' is beginning to run out, along with their goodwill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I accept, albeit a tad grudgingly but understandably-ish, that in present circumstances Hornby can't guarantee that all 2,350 will arrive in the same container but they still ought to realise they need to get in at least that number. Of course the retailer is also part of the trust thing as you need to rely on him actually getting his order in on time/in time and if he is unreliable in that respect or doesn't match his order to what his customers have ordered you have a problem - needs another layer of trust. I suspect that they have to book a slot for 2000 whatevers before they have even designed it so by the time they ask for orders the production volume has already been fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thats why I said it. Everything points to Hornby loosing out eventually. I might not care if it did not have an affect on the model railway hobby but I can envisige this occuring...."I used to model trains but Hornby anounced things and they couldn't even be purchased when pre-ordering. I missed out on so much that in the end I thought b*llocks, and took up collecting Ecstasy Pills....". Or, even more damaging (for Hornby), "I stopped buying Hornby trains because I couldn't even get half of what I wanted and now collect Bachmann ones". This hasn't (yet) happened to me because I get my pre-orders in early so my name is always near the top of the list. If I wasn't in that position and my pre-order was (say) number 10 of 10, only for Hornby to cut my dealer's allocation to 5, I would take a very dim view of it. If it happened twice, I (and many others) probably wouldn't bother pre-ordering Hornby again. However, at this point, my dealer would know I had the price of the undelivered item in my pocket, and would naturally try to sell me something else; quite possibly something in a blue box rather than a red-and-yellow one. Pre-ordering must surely be a valuable indicator of demand for manufacturers. If it cannot be relied upon, there is a risk is that production will fail to match demand even more often (and not necessarily in the direction that keeps prices up). Most of us have various interests/activities competing for our cash. If we regularly fail to get what we want from Hornby, at least some of our spending will be switched to competitors who do deliver what's ordered or be diverted to something entirely unconnected. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If you are modelling a specific location like I am with the Swanage Railway Hornby has got a monopoly. If I want to continue I have got no choice but to pay an inflated price for an M7 or to be kept waiting for years for set of pull-push coaches and probably for a Drummond 700. From past experience I doubt if Hornby will be able to meet the demand by September 2014 as Hornby has suggested. I can and have either built these from kits myself or bought made up kits but the Hornby models run better, have a better finish and will take tight curves. One alternative would be to change to another prototype like the Severn Valley Railway where Bachmann have already made the station buildings for Highley and make much of the rolling stock. Another would be to change to N gauge where Graham Farish are delivering high quality products at lower prices or to 0 gauge where Ace and Darstaed are supplying the course scale market and Golden Age are supplying the finescale market. I am not sure how bad Hornby's delays are. I ordered some LSWR pull-push sets from Kernow before Hornby announced their Maunsell pull-push sets. The difference is that Kernow have not suggested a delivery date but Hornby gave the delivery date as the first quarter of 2012. Then Hornby produced a few in July and said it would bring forward the delivery date of the next batch until the third quarter of 2012 and then kept on changing the date until now it is in February 2014 and will probably be put back further. I am surprised at how much the administration here and the model railway magazines support Hornby and the way they some of them regard us like children demanding our toys now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knapper Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Whilst I can understand that the timing of products to be made by Sanda Kan might be difficult to predict and/or be put out to the long grass, I was hoping that products coming from the new factories might arrive closer to the expected delivery dates, but now I'm wondering... It would seem likely that the factories making the 2014 range still have to get the delayed items from 2013 produced and delivered (that is unless Hornby have stated that the 2014 products are being made in new factories?). I think it'll take until the end of March to know just how things are going. If it looks like they'll have all of the outstanding 2013 items by the end of July, and are starting to get 2014's out, then they might well be able to get most of this years catalog out this year, as SK has said they are confident they will. I know it seems unlikely now (OK, maybe a slight understatement) but they can't carry on as they have been. Edit: Actually just getting all the outstanding items out and over half of the new 2014 items would probably please most people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 ... If I want to continue I have got no choice but to pay an inflated price ... or to be kept waiting for years ... I am surprised at ... the way they some of them regard us like children demanding our toys now. Er...? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Er...? Paul This is what a guest contributor thinks of us in his article on page 153 of Model Rail 191 Winter 2014. After admitting Hornby is not perfect he goes on to say that if we like to bash Hornby and complain about nothing changing in five years we should consider the following points: 1) He has told us that we are buying toys 2) We have no understanding of the issues 3) Our wish list of models has no impact on the issue 4) We are a bunch of tightwads who do not want to pay realistic prices for our models I disagree with all these points. One distinction between a toy railway and a model railway is that a toy train is a representation of a train whereas a model railway is a realistic scale model. To me a model railway is a three dimensional picture and if we enjoy building this picture and running trains in it it is to our credit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This is what a guest contributor thinks of us in his article on page 153 of Model Rail 191 Winter 2014. After admitting Hornby is not perfect he goes on to say that if we like to bash Hornby and complain about nothing changing in five years we should consider the following points: 1) He has told us that we are buying toys 2) We have no understanding of the issues 3) Our wish list of models has no impact on the issue 4) We are a bunch of tightwads who do not want to pay realistic prices for our models I disagree with all these points. One distinction between a toy railway and a model railway is that a toy train is a representation of a train whereas a model railway is a realistic scale model. To me a model railway is a three dimensional picture and if we enjoy building this picture and running trains in it it is to our credit. I would have thought a quick scan of RMweb would be enough to suggest that point (4), at least, has some grounding in reality - at least among a majority of contributors. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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