Ronnie Biggs dies?.

[Kenton]

 

Call me a hypocrit then, the difference to me was he was involved with a gang who contributed to the death of an innocent man going about his lawful business for totally selfish notions, whilst you may not agree with politicians they generally don't go around attacking trains and coshing the drivers.

 

This perhaps should not be seen as an attack on a train but more of an attack on "the establishment" which is why the sentencing was so high. Biggs gets all the attention simply because he followed up the sensational crime (of which he played an almost insignificant part) by escaping (another crime against the establishment) from prison (not just any prison). Far too much is made of the driver - who's injuries were used by the media and employed by the unions to make issue. I am certain that any driver would have been given leave following such traumatic an incident even without the coshing. Again the media and the courts tried to make out that Biggs was directly responsible - as an individual he was not. Just one small part of a large number involved in the robbery. The driver did not die of injury sustained and I am yet to see any evidence linking leukaemia with blunt trauma. The driver died of leukaemia and while that is very sad for any individual and family it is irrelevant to the robbery.

 

I am certainly not one to revel in the death of Mr Biggs unlike some who seem to have posted on here, I do have sympathy for his family who have had to put up with the intrusions into their lives for so many years.

 

I will be recording the BBC story telling but will treat it as having about the same level of facts as most docusoaps put out by the BBC.

 

I'd like to think it will finally all die down, but I guess it will not. How many other events have we seen that the establishment has been "done over" in such a spectacular way?

 

Biggs was brought back to this country with the collusion of a certain newspaper - who were in it for the story. I think you will find that much of this financed his care and family. By all accounts he cared for his wife and the child was not born to order so that he could obtain Brazilian protection against extradition. Of course the formal marriage could have been initially used with this hope in mind, who knows.

[alfsboy]

I think the main beef the GTR's had with the law was the length of the sentence .In their eyes ,and believe me I have known some blaggers far worse than BIggs ( I'm from Essex LOL) they didnt think it was playing fair (honestly) .They all have a certain code of ethics usually that they know they will pay a price and will accept it as part of the job  but 30 years was too much  for a blag . They have their uses .My daughter was in local nightclub  year s ago when a very big well known   boxer  who has just been done for drugs offences tried it on .The bouncers all disappeared  and only a local major criminal  who had a soft spot for her ,and his boys  stopped him ,not by violence but the certain  knowledge of his ultimate fate should he not stop .You could say he had nowhere to Hide.Knowing these guys ,they are on a different planet to us.Charming on the outside but lethal if crossed.Its worth bearing in mind that Mr Big got away with it .The guy who had all the info and set up plans was  never named,He was the only clever one and Biggs knew it to the day he died.

[beast66606]

This perhaps should not be seen as an attack on a train but more of an attack on "the establishment"

 

No - it was definitely an attack on a train - I've checked again to be sure.

[big jim]

 

the thing that riles me about the biggs case, as i'm too young to remember it happening and it realtes to my original comment was the fact he came back into the country to seek medical help and be allowed to die but he managed to leech on for another 12 years despite being on deaths door with months to live when arriving backn the uk

 

quite a bit of talk round town today by older folk about biggs death, none of whom were lamenting it thats for sure!

 

may go and put some flowers by the sign for "jack mills way" tomorrow in memory of someone who SHOULD be being remembered today

[Geoff Endacott]

Don't forget David Whitby. The other member of the footplate crew died of a heart attack aged 34.

 

Geoff Endacott

[big jim]

from the crewe chronicle website feed.......

 

Mick Whelan, general secretary of train drivers' union Aself, has said his organisation regarded Bigg as a "nonentity and a criminal".

He said this morning: "While, naturally, we feel sorry for Mr Biggs's family at this time, we have always regarded Biggs as a nonentity, and a criminal, who took part in a violent robbery which resulted in the death of a train driver.

"Jack Mills, who was 57 at the time of the robbery, never properly recovered from the injuries he suffered after being savagely coshed by the gang of which Biggs was a member that night."

[JZ]

Ronnie Biggs dead ?

 

Good.

[jjb1970]

Whilst I really cannot find it within me to shed any tears for Ronnie Bigg's I also hope to avoid deriving any pleasure from it. To me he was a criminal and not somebody to venerate or see as some sort of lovable rogue yet it is also important I think to try and show some grace to deceased people and those they leave behind.

[MJI]

I refer to dear old Maggie - a woman genuinely hated by a large swathe of the country and whose demise (and the reaction to it) prompted the kind of response I referred to in my previous post. There was even a thread closed down on this site after a negative reaction similar to some of the views expressed here. My point is that if such courtesy is expected, nay, demanded for someone who was such a divisive and (arguably) more harmful figure, then why should a disproportionately notorious petty criminal not be afforded that same courtesy?

 

Usually politicians of any colour (but not sure about Blair) want to do good for their country, you cannot compare a criminal act to trying to get the country out of a huge hole. Some politicians are useless but criminal? I think not.

 

Anyway this thread is not about politics but to remember the violence and its effects towards a train driver caught up in a robbery

[PhilJ W]

One victim who is barely mentioned is the innocent guy (I can't recall his name) who was 'fitted up' for the robbery and died in prison.

[Rugd1022]

One victim who is barely mentioned is the innocent guy (I can't recall his name) who was 'fitted up' for the robbery and died in prison.

 

It was a chap called William Boal Phil, convicted on 26th March 1964.

[Colin]

I'm firmly in the "what about Jack Mills" camp here.

 

The best thing we can do IMHO is FORGET Biggs, it's what he deserves; after all he said he wanted to go down in history and I feel he should be denied the privilege.