The Furness Valley Railroad

[chaz]

Railcar colours. The East Broad Top M1 stuck with the Pullman green (which seems to be the default colour for a lot of american coaches) but with a brown roof (to match the locomotives.

 

Doodlebug_ebt_m1.jpg

 

The Silverton went for a yellow to match their coaching stock (but that was a more modern vehicle)

 

2003-08-23_015.jpg

 

It was common, on standard gauge at least to paint the driving end (will you have a cab at both ends?) with stripes as a warning

 

ATSF_Doodle_Bug_1943.jpg

 

So perhaps the basic Pullman green with a dazzle end?

 

10-10nyc_doodlebug.jpg

 

Rgds Andrew

 

Thanks for those prototype pictures Andrew, interesting stuff.

 

My railcar only has a cab at one end and will be turned on a table or wye at jouney's end. That Pullman green looks a very dull colour - or is that the effect of time and weather?

[AJon30]

Yes it is rather dull, but a coat of varnish may make a big difference (varnish being the american "slang" for passenger coaches.

 

 

The Rio Grande Southern had a red/brown scheme, and the D&GR also used red on their business cars.

 

 

 

As with most things, its your railway, I'm sure you can invent a story to cover most colours (although pink may be stretching it a point.....)

 

Rgds Andrew

[Talltim]

Dark blue with pink doors...

 

I would say Pullman green, maroon, red or black are the most likely. If it was an C19th model then yellow might be an option (along with lots of fancy lining out), but I would say that although there were really things in that colour, it might stick out too much. Some RRs seemed to like a browny orange (think Milwaukee) but that mainly seems to have been electric lines.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Talltim

[Donw]

In an editorial I once commented that what colour you painted a loco was your own choice but white with pink spots might raise eyebrows at the local club. Within days of publication someone sent me a photo of an LMS loco that had been covered with wallpaper (for an Advert) with roses on it!  Actually I believe the Welsh Highland railway had a coach painted Pink.

Don

[chaz]

Yes it is rather dull, but a coat of varnish may make a big difference (varnish being the american "slang" for passenger coaches.

 

D&RGW_PC_284_2007.jpg

 

The Rio Grande Southern had a red/brown scheme, and the D&GR also used red on their business cars.

 

DS-01-103.jpg

 

DS-01-013.jpg

 

As with most things, its your railway, I'm sure you can invent a story to cover most colours (although pink may be stretching it a point.....)

 

Rgds Andrew

 

Thanks Andrew. More useful photos. I like the red car very much - and the shade looks rather like Humbrol #20 - crimson I think the lining out would have to be simplified, those decorative corners look tricky. I have a Bachmann body shell which I painted yesterday with a coat of dark green, but it is drying very slowly. It needs a second coat before I can judge whether I like it.

[chaz]

 

I think I am going to have to replace those headlight castings. They are white-metal and are proving to be too small to make work. I have some very small warm white LEDs that look just right on 12V with a 10K resistor in series but I don't think they will fit (too long and the wires will have to go through the back).

 

Alternatives are either to replace them with some larger castings (Wiseman do some nice ones) or put a single, larger light in the roof end. A single light in the roof may well be more prototypical and will certainly make it easier to fit a bulb or LED.

 

Not too sure how to modify the end of Bachmann's roof to accomodate a light - any thoughts?

 

Chaz

Edited August 22, 2015 by chaz

[Donw]

Drill trough and insert a piece of brass tube or plastruct tube. Shape milliput to flare in the tube to the roof. A ring of slightly bigger tube round the front  and a suitable washer (screw on cap?).  Hardest part drilling straight through a curved surface.

Don

[chaz]

Drill trough and insert a piece of brass tube or plastruct tube. Shape milliput to flare in the tube to the roof. A ring of slightly bigger tube round the front  and a suitable washer (screw on cap?).  Hardest part drilling straight through a curved surface.

Don

 

Yes Don, that would produce a look similar to the Durango and Silverton's car in the photo provided by Andrew. On reflection I could instead cut away the roof to a section of flat top at the front like M1214 and M419 in the pictures, or to get the look that M1 has I could drill the brass above the window but below the roof line. The latter might appear the easiest but there would be a risk of forcing apart the two layers of brass that are laminated together to get the car's cab front.

 

I think I will have a go at modifying the roof to give a flat section - I have a spare roof which I can try it out on. WTS.

Edited August 22, 2015 by chaz

[chaz]

The spare roof sacrificed to experiment - first a try at getting a flat on the end.

 

 

Not too difficult to do, but now that I see it....

 

So next the I drilled the other end....

 

 

I started by marking a centre in the soft plastic with a scriber, then drilled a pilot hole with a 2mm drill in a pin-chuck. It's not possible to drill this hole at the angle required - the bit will just skid across the surface, but with a pilot hole the next drill can be eased closer to the required angle. I finished the hole with a round file.

 

 

The brass tube fits nicely and I don't think it needs any sort of fairing. All I have to figure out now is how I am going to make the glass for the front.

[Donw]

A spare piece of the tube file a sharp edge one end use to cut a piece of clear plastic which will fit inside? If you want it domed which I suspect it would be it would mean thicker plastic and a bit of filing then polishing.

Don

[chaz]

A spare piece of the tube file a sharp edge one end use to cut a piece of clear plastic which will fit inside? If you want it domed which I suspect it would be it would mean thicker plastic and a bit of filing then polishing.

Don

 

That's certainly a possibility, Don. Polishing probably means using acrylic, Perspex or similar, which is hard enough to polish up nicely. A few years ago I fitted some 16mm white-metal signal lamps with clear acrylic lenses. These were turned from rod and polished.

 

 

There is still a short length of acrylic rod in a drawer somewhere...

Edited August 23, 2015 by chaz

[Guest Isambarduk]

"... Perspex or similar, which is hard enough to polish up nicely"
 
Yes, it does take a bit of time but I have found that I can turn the initial shape with a file then progressively smooth away the file marks with finer and finer wet-and-dry until the final polish with Duralglit (or similar wadding metal polish) brings it up like glass.

 

Of course, for a flat front, you could use real glass cut from a microscope slide cover slip; I have done it for loco spectacles, using a diamond-pointed scriber and a draughting template of circles.

 

David

[chaz]

"... Perspex or similar, which is hard enough to polish up nicely"

 

Yes, it does take a bit of time but I have found that I can turn the initial shape with a file then progressively smooth away the file marks with finer and finer wet-and-dry until the final polish with Duralglit (or similar wadding metal polish) brings it up like glass.

 

 

Of course, for a flat front, you could use real glass cut from a microscope slide cover slip; I have done it for loco spectacles, using a diamond-pointed scriber and a draughting template of circles.

 

David

 

Thanks for that. I have done a fair bit of acrylic polishing. It can take a while, although I don't anticipate a 5mm diameter rod end will take too long.

[chaz]

Hang on a minute! All this about polishing acrylic rod is beside the point. I suddenly thought that if the brass tube has a 5mm internal diameter a 5mm LED should slide in AND I have a few warm white 5mm LEDs in a drawer.

A test fit showed them to be a snug fit, although they would not push in as far as I wanted as (like most LEDs) there is a moulded collar around the base.

 

 

A few minutes with a file removed the collar and the LED would now slide right into the tube. In the photo above are before and after LEDs.

 

If you are tempted to take a file to an LED be careful. I understand there are some very nasty substances in LEDs (albeit in small quantities) which are best left sealed up inside.

 

I decided to blacken the brass tube. This will, I hope, be less likely to show bright brass if the exposed edges get handled. Time will tell.

 

 

I used Casey's Brass Black. As this is a nasty chemical it's wise to do this carefully. I use a cheap baking tray (£1 from Poundland) to catch any drips or splashes and disposable latex gloves to keep the stuff off my fingers. No need to panic, just be sensible, wash the work with plenty of water, dispose of the gloves after use and wash your hands thoroughly.

 

Although the end of the LED is a bit more curved than the glass would be in a lamp it looks acceptable.

 

 

These warm white LEDs are often very high intensity and will look ridiculously bright on the model. They can be tamed by choosing a higher value resistor than one might ordinarily use. Trying various increasing values led me to 27K  (red, violet, orange) as giving a sensible brightness on 12V.   (edit ....and a current of approx 4.4mA)

 

Chaz

Edited August 23, 2015 by chaz

[Barnaby]

Once again necessity is the mother of invention, excellent work Chaz.

[chaz]

Once again necessity is the mother of invention, excellent work Chaz.

 

Thanks. These days it seems to take me a while to get to what is often an obvious solution. I must admit that I fiddled about with the cast white-metal lamps for a while, looking at grain-of-rice bulbs, 3mm LEDs and so on. The photos of prototype railcars that Andrew (AJon30) posted were the initial prompt to move to one light in the roof - after that it all followed - eventually!

 

I think I will dispense with a backup light. If the car had one it wouldn't help the engineer who would get nil visiblity from his cab.

 

Chaz

Edited August 23, 2015 by chaz

[N15class]

Acrylic can be polished with a micro flame. It is the way we did it on shop window displays.

 

I like the way the models and layout are developing here. I am collecting many ideas.

[chaz]

Acrylic can be polished with a micro flame. It is the way we did it on shop window displays.

 

I like the way the models and layout are developing here. I am collecting many ideas.

 

Yes Peter, I am aware that a flame will do the job but I have never seen it done. Thanks for the comment, it's appreciated.

[Guest Isambarduk]

Peter, I didn't know about this, thanks.

"I have never seen it done."
Neither have I, Chaz, but see here: https://youtu.be/Vx7MHdWXQvc

It's not necessarily the best example but I searched on Youtube for "flame polishing acrylic" and this was the first clip of many.

 

David

[chaz]

Peter, I didn't know about this, thanks.

 

"I have never seen it done."

Neither have I, Chaz, but see here: https://youtu.be/Vx7MHdWXQvc

It's not necessarily the best example but I searched on Youtube for "flame polishing acrylic" and this was the first clip of many.

 

David

 

Watching the DVD I note that you can still see some file marks (saw marks?) in the edge that is treated with the torch. Suggests to me that the torch technique is probably best used as a finishing touch, with a conventional smoothing sequence used first. Once a smooth matte finish has been achieved the torch would give the final, glass-like surface. Of course I don't need this as I am using an LED but the technique is an interesting one.

[N15class]

We always had a routered finish. The better the starting finish the better the result. Just like painting.

[chaz]

I recently picked up a couple of second-hand Bachmann moguls. Here is one of them standing on a spur track that's part of the staging (fiddle yard) and will need hiding behind scenery.

 

 

The moguls will be subjected to a fair amount of work in due course. In the mean time the scenery progresses.

 

 

The white board forms a screen to hide the spur - this will need to be removeable to gain access. With the angle of the ceiling dropping down so close the space lost to the spur wouldn't be a lot of use for scenery anyway. in the foreground is the triangular piece I fixed into the corner so that the track should not be so close to the edge - an improvement visually.

 

 

A crib wall taking shape - this is fastened to the white board and so will lift out with it. The problem will be sorting out the ends so that the join between removeable and fixed isn't obvious. Some work to do!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I have finished the colour tests for the doodle bug on the body shell of a second hand Bachmann passenger car.

 

On one side I tried Humbrol #3 - gloss Brunswick Green. Although this is not the same as Pullman Green (which I judge is a more olive shade) it does look a good colour for the FVRR "varnish" - and certainly more attractive than the rather lifeless grey/green that the Bachmann cars I have came in.

 

 

An interesting photographic effect - the left hand end has been sprayed with Dullcote to see what this did to the colour. As I expected from most angles it looks lighter (and duller of course) but the photograph makes it appear darker.

 

On the other side of the shell I have done some experiments with Humbrol #20 - gloss Crimson. Like most crimson paints this is a fairly transparent colour and the final effect therefore depends on the undercoat used. For example if you paint it over white it dries a bright, almost pink shade, whilst a darker u/c produces richer, more attractive shades.
To see which u/c gave the best result I painted a few sections of matte colour and added the crimson once they were dry. All the tests were brush painted. The gloss finish of the topcoats will be useful as a good surface on which to add waterslides (decals). Once the topcoats had fully dried I added a spray of Dullcote on this side so that I can assess these colours once they are matte.

 

 

I left sections of undercoat showing rather than cover the whole with the topcoat. The effect I prefer is that on the LH end with the crimson painted over an u/c of Revell 77 edit should be 84 - leather brown. A darker richer colour. Of course the variations in colour of the top coat show how important it is to get an even coverage to the u/c. The outline of some transfer lettering (in yellow) can be seen clearly through the crimson where I intentionally left it without u/c. You could add several further coats of crimson - this would still show through.

 

The top of the shell has been sprayed with Dullcote and looks lighter - again my camera has made the gloss finish look lighter - even though I held the model at an angle which made it distinctly darker to the eye.

 

I have decided to use the Brunswick Green (Humbrol #3) for most of the FVRR's passenger cars - and Crimson (Humbrol #20) over for the doodlebug and maybe the odd "special car". The test suggests that I should follow the hint of the word "varnish" and leave the passenger cars with a gloss finish (or maybe satin? another test needed).

 

Now back to the scenery.....

Edited September 2, 2015 by chaz

[AJon30]

Thanks Chaz that's very useful - I have struggled with using red/crimson paints in the past (normally over primer grey) but had not thought about using an undercoat of a brown base colour. For info what other colours, apart from the Revell 77 did you use?

 

Although it's wildly inappropriate, the coaches that Bachmann finished in Great Northern orange/green scheme always seemed attractive

 

 

Rgds Andrew

 

 

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz that's very useful - I have struggled with using red/crimson paints in the past (normally over primer grey) but had not thought about using an undercoat of a brown base colour. For info what other colours, apart from the Revell 77 did you use?

 

 

Andrew, here is a list of the undercoats I tried. No doubt other colours could be used with varying effects on the topcoat.

 

 

From left to right

1. crimson over Revell #84 (leather brown) - my favourite and the colour combo' I will use on the doodlebug.
2. Revell #84 (leather brown)
3. Humbrol #113 (rust)
4. crimson over Humbrol #113 (rust)
5. crimson over Humbrol #160 (german red brown)
6. Humbrol #160 (german red brown)
7. crimson over Humbrol #160 (german red brown)
8. crimson over Humbrol #73 (wine)
9. Humbrol #73 (wine)
10. crimson over Humbrol #73 (wine)

I also painted an end with Revell #77 (dust grey) and the crimson over the top of this look very similar to the effect with Revell #84.

 

I hope that's some help. If you are going to paint with crimson if might be a good idea to do some experiments yourself. I did wonder what it would look like over a dark blue but as I don't have a matte dark blue I couldn't test this. I imagine it might move the crimson towards purple.

 

Chaz

Edited August 27, 2015 by chaz