chaz Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Today, having put several layers of papier mache on the two baseboards and letting them dry out, I decided to cut through the shell so that they could be separated. I could position the cut accurately using the joins in the backscene, the trackbed and the baseboard front rails as guides. I made the cut with a Stanley knife, which I treated to a new blade. Lifting the board out of position allows the thickness of the scenery shell to be seen. Remember this is just paper from the shredder mixed with wallpaper paste, but it's satisfyingly rigid - indeed it is homemade thick cardboard. As there is to be a lot of greenery on these slopes it shouldn't be too difficult to hide the join. Chaz Edited March 3, 2015 by chaz 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 It is all beginning to take shape nicely. I like your paper mache I may try on the little sculpting I need. I will need to use PVE as I have not seen wallpaper paste since I have been here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nice work Chaz. I reckon the extra time needed to clean up after the plasterwork would probably negate any savings in time and the paper mache cut cleanly too. I have used paper shell before but it was harder to get the shape so I think I will do paper mache next time. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Looking very good Chas. I have to admit I do fancy having a go as Papier Mache would seem to be easier to mould to any given shape and certainly a lot less bits flying every where do to static. I've got a box of shredding's which I was going to compost or take to the tip but now I might have a go at Papier Mache. I have a couple of small areas which will have complex contours but not require to be very deep. I was thinking of going the Das clay route but the mache could be better. I want to have my layout reside in a real world and not just be a member of the flat earth society. Edited March 3, 2015 by Barnaby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Coming along great chaz... cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thanks for those comments lads. If you are going to try it for yourself I will just warn you - it is a process that won't be hurried. You need to let each layer dry out before adding the next. Warmer weather will help! I have so many modelling tasks on the go at the moment that having to wait a week or so for this to happen was no problem. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) It is all beginning to take shape nicely. I like your paper mache I may try on the little sculpting I need. I will need to use PVE as I have not seen wallpaper paste since I have been here. PVA works fine - I have tried it out (see above) - there are pros and cons which I mentioned in post 252. Chaz Edited March 4, 2015 by chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2015 At the speed I work I could start one end and the first bit would be dry by the time I got to the far end. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Me too Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Papier Mache would seem to be easier to mould to any given shape..... Moulding to shape? Not sure how possible that would be. I was adding layers of the papier mache to a shell made of woven card and sealed with kitchen roll and PVA. The resultant surface is fairly random - dictated by what's underneath. When I put each dollop on to the shell it has to be worked a bit with a glue spreader to get it to adhere. I suppose once it starts to stick you could add more or less in places to control the effect to some extent but it would be a pretty blunt wat of getting shapes. Just got to sort out the scenery shell from the tunnel mouth* to the corner then it will be time to start adding some green stuff! *hang on - I ought to spike some rail down on the tunnel stretch - that's going to be difficult once the tunnel is fixed in place. Before I do anymore I think it would be wise to list all the remaining jobs on this first section and then put them into some sort of logical order..... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hi all, I would really encourage everybody to give the paper maché method Chaz describes above a try. I've only positive results with this stuff and– in my opinion – it doesn't need undue time to cure. Also it is easily prepared with the help of a blender (Aldi sold it as an onion cutter). Only advice I would like to add is: I cover the underlying shell with neat PVA before I lay out the first layer of paper maché; this ensures that it adheres firmly to the shell. I like how easily it is treated after drying– no tearing or cracking, takes paint well, nice cutting (as can be seen above) etc. Much recommended Regards Armin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Hi all, I would really encourage everybody to give the paper maché method Chaz describes above a try. I've only positive results with this stuff and– in my opinion – it doesn't need undue time to cure. Also it is easily prepared with the help of a blender (Aldi sold it as an onion cutter). Only advice I would like to add is: I cover the underlying shell with neat PVA before I lay out the first layer of paper maché; this ensures that it adheres firmly to the shell. I like how easily it is treated after drying– no tearing or cracking, takes paint well, nice cutting (as can be seen above) etc. Much recommended Regards Armin Don't disagree with any of that. It never ocurred to me to use a blender - that should speed up the preparation time. I didn't bother with neat PVA. My card-strip weave has a layer of kitchen roll paper glued to it with PVA to cover all the holes and gaps and form a continuous surface. I reasoned that the papier mache mix, being full of wallpaper adhesive, would stick well to this surface, even though my PVA had dried - as indeed it appears to do. one could add the first layer before the PVA dries but the glued paper has a good rough surface, plenty of "key", ideal for applying the mix. I will mention again how clean it is to work with - although if you drop any of the (dry) paper shreddings when preparing the mix they seem to walk all over the house. A quick whizz round with a vacuum cleaner restores domestic harmony! Edited March 6, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am thinking it might be as well to seal any plywood with a bit of pva to stop it soaking up the water. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 ... I will mention again how clean it is to work with - although if you drop any of the (dry) paper shreddings when preparing the mix they seem to walk all over the house. A quick whizz round with a vacuum cleaner restores domestic harmony! Chaz, I put the teared paper into the blender together with a glass of water. After blending give the stuff into a sieve and add the wp-glue. BTW: to knead this dough is a very entertaining joy for grandson no.1 (3 yrs now) … Boyz !!! Regards Armin PS: I have no problem with "domestic harmony" – also because the blender was never intended for kitchen use – I bought it expressly for model purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yup just like my paint stirrer which was originally a milk foamer with the springy bit removed. http://direct.asda.com/George-Home-Milk-Frother/001585435,default,pd.html?cm_mmc=Shopping%20Engines%20George-_-Google%20Base-_-Coffee%20Machines-_-George%20Home%20Milk%20Frother&istCompanyId=71f4ae42-94c5-4821-aa58-05eff6da2486&istItemId=wariqamxi&istBid=tztx 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 I am thinking it might be as well to seal any plywood with a bit of pva to stop it soaking up the water. Don I think this would be an unnecessary step, Don. The mix is not actually that wet - if it is you haven't added enough paper. Putting it on in thin layers should mean that most of the water evapourates from the top surface, and in any case the PVA/kitchen paper layer is some protection. I suppose it would be sensible if you were applying the mix directly to a plywood surface - but I don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 There may well be a delay before any further progress is made on the FVRR whilst I work on the changes to Dock Green - which I must complete before the Epsom show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Cripes, was my last FVRR posting really in March? This will not do! This afternoon I decided to restart activity on the layout by fixing some rail to the bridge ties of the girder bridge. The photo (above) shows the first rail superglued to every third tie. I decided a long time ago not to try and lay the rails with the bridge ties on the bridge - it would be very difficult working between the girders. They will be fixed into the bridge once all the work on the rails is done. Next photo shows me marking out the centre line of the second rail. A short length of rail is held to gauge and a scriber used to mark every third tie, as each one is marked the rail can be slid along. Four of the ties can have a line of superglue put across the mark with a piece of wire and the rail added, held to gauge with gentle downward pressure until the superglue cures. To add glue to the next four ties I pull the rail gently to one side and then slide the gauges along to pull the rail back to gauge and press down. Once the second rail was glued in place all along I had to check the gauge. here is the FVRR's only stock car being used to check the track. A - OK. Next came the spikes... On the left a pin-chuck with a 0.7mm drill, on the right a drilling jig. The two spikes are i) straight from the packet and ii) cut short with wire cutters so it does not project below the bridge ties. Of course on ordinary road-bed the spikes need not be shortened as they can pass through the ties and into the plywood. This is the drilling jig in use... It is pushed against the foot of the rail - not into the web - and the hole started. This gets the spike at the right distance - too far away and it would not grip the rail, too close and it will push the rail out of alignment. IS IT WORTH THE WORK? Spiking the rail to the ties certainly looks better but is an awful lot of work (4 spikes to each tie). Whether they will be visible from a normal viewing distance is debatable - the jury is still out. Chaz Edited August 3, 2015 by chaz 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snofi Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Crazy! Love it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Crazy! No, but I think I might be by the time I have spiked the rails across the bridge and round the curve to the tunnel. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2015 Looking very good Chaz. I presume you drill the sleeper to stop splitting. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted August 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2015 Could be worse Chaz, you could have decided to individually scribe the stonework on a 6" x6" x36" building. Sanity in question, fingers getting a bit stiff! Here's just one small area... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Looking very good Chaz. I presume you drill the sleeper to stop splitting. Don Thanks Don and yes, I drill the ties - there is no way you could push a spike through the bridge ties without a pilot hole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 A concentrated effort today got the rails spiked onto the bridge ties. There is a potential problem with superglueing the rail to the wood - expansion and contraction of the rail might well crack the glue joints so the spikes are not just cosmetic. I started the holes with a drill in a pin-chuck and then finished them with a Dremel. Photo above shows all the spikes in place. Later I added some paint to the spikes (Railmatch "dark rust"), and to the rail where rotating the spikes into the web had scratched the paint. Here is the track dropped into the bridge... The rails extend beyond the bridge ends. I thought it would make vertical alignment easier if the rail wasn't joined at the ends. A close-up showing just how insignificant the spikes are.... There is still a bit of work to do to get the track aligned and at the right level. This will be done by some work on the top of the abutments. The ties and ballast need adding to the roadbed to the left of the bridge and I need to make a few decisions about some scenic work under and behind the bridge so no trains will run across that river for a while yet. Chaz 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Could be worse Chaz, you could have decided to individually scribe the stonework on a 6" x6" x36" building. Sanity in question, fingers getting a bit stiff! Here's just one small area... rps20150803_214514.jpg Nice stonework Chris. Just be a bit careful that all your stones are not an exact fit - it can produce some unlikely shapes. It will be more work but some small pieces cut into corners will make your bigger stones more credible shapes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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