chaz Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 With such low temperatures up in my roof space the first dollops of paper mache on any area take about a week to dry right out. Subsequent layers dry out quicker - I think the dried stuff acts like blotting paper. It's certainly better to wait for a layer to dry before adding more. However any delay with drying is no problem - there are so many other bits I can get on with (not to mention the extension work on Dock Green) that progress can be made, jumping from one job to another. Happy days. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2015 I was thinking more in terms of a log, but if you think a lof would be better......... I really must fix those fingers. This is touchmistyping. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Of course I need to get some full trees made before I even think about a fallen, rotting one. Techniques and materials may well be similar. A look to aim for? Edited February 4, 2015 by chaz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2015 Chaz I wonder if a dollop of PVA in the paper mache would speed up the setting. I have made paper shell scenery using bits of paper pasted on with PVA. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Chaz I wonder if a dollop of PVA in the paper mache would speed up the setting. I have made paper shell scenery using bits of paper pasted on with PVA. Don It might well do. My 5 grams of Polycell Powder and a quarter of a pint of water makes up about half a beaker of stuff once the shreddings have been added. If I was going to use PVA I would switch to a 50:50 mix of PVA and water and miss out the Polycell paste. I did start by pasting down bits of kitchen paper with PVA but I found that it was taking too many layers to build up a good thickness. Still I'm happy to wait for my mix to dry naturally as the result is good. I suspect PVA might well produce a slightly flexible shell whereas I know from what I have done so far that the mix I am using produces a rigid, thick cardboard-like result. Once I have one layer on and dry subsequent layers can be thicker but take less time to dry (the blotting-paper effect of the dry stuff?). As I said I have a lot of model tasks on the go right now, including the scenery shell on the other side of the river which I have yet to start and will take some time to make. And then there are the slopes around the tunnel mouth which will include a crib wall. Did I mention spiking down some rail? No chance of getting bored! Edit - on reflection it might be worth doing the next batch with 50:50 PVA just to see how it compares. I am going to fill the gaping hole on the back of the embankment soon - I can try it out on that. I will report later on the result. Edited February 4, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I suspect with PVA the stuff will be harder to cut. I like the workability of paper maché made up with wallpaper glue. Armin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I suspect with PVA the stuff will be harder to cut. I like the workability of paper maché made up with wallpaper glue. Armin That may be so. I too like the paper mache and the way the dollops can be worked - I suspect the PVA might be rather more sticky, adhering to knife and brush rather than the job. I spent this afternoon on the extension board for Dock Green. Late on this evening I decided to do a bit to the FVRR. The gaping hole needed filling. I used my usual weave of cereal box card with the ends of the strips anchored with the hot melt glue-gun. There's more than a hint of bodging in many of these scenery techniques..... Once the weave was in place I went over it with bits of kitchen towel glued down with PVA. Once this is dry it will get a layer or two of paper mache. This is an impossibly steep slope for an embankment but it is out of sight when the baseboard is in place against the wall - I just didn't want to leave it as a hole. Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 This afternoon I mixed up some paper mache, substituting a 50:50 mix of PVA and water for the Polycell paste. This I applied over the "gaping hole" that I worked on yesterday. First impression was that it is a bit more difficult to apply, being stickier and stodgier. I will keep an eye on it to see how quickly it dries. One big advantage (I suppose it could be a drawback for some work) is the rough texture the dried surface has... This will certainly suit a woodland floor where the chief texture is fallen leaves. Also this afternoon I cut some hardboard profiles for the front of the section to the left of the bridge and spent time getting the roadbed heights level. Next move will be to build up card profiles to which the card-strip weave can be fixed. I abandoned the idea of a small bridge to the left of the girder bridge as it seemed a lot of work for something I didn't feel was going to be that convincing. Chaz 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 HELP! I'm running out of smaller G-cramps.... ....no matter, I have lots of jobs to get on with both on the FVRR and on Dock Green. In the morning when the PVA has dried (set?) the cramps can come off these risers and the others on this section can be dealt with. Chaz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 Difficult to have too many cramps for that sort of job. I am not using all mine at the moment :no: Just too far apart. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Realy coming along!! wil pop in again soon Chaz cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Great work Chaz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I can now compare the two paper mache mixes The Polycell paste mix takes about a week to dry out in winter conditions in my largely unheated roof space - just a quick blast with a fan heater when I first go up to take the chill off. It is easy to mix and apply being slippery rather than sticky. The 50:50 PVA water mix test took about 4 days to dry out in the same temperature. It's a bit trickier to mix, feeling stiffer when stirred and being stickier it is slightly harder to apply, tending to stick to the spreader. Both mixes result in a hard shell and the PVA is not noticeably flexible - as I thought it might be. Frankly I don't think there is much in it but as the longer drying time is no problem - plenty of other modelling tasks waiting in the queue - I think I will stick with the Polycell mix. The ease of mixing and application swing it for me. of course if I waited for warmer times, and it does get warm up there under the summer sun , the drying time might well be reduced. Chaz Edited February 10, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Scenic development work continues with the section to the left of the girder bridge..... The trackbed gets wider at the far end to accommodate the first switches of the station just round the curve - now to be called Benton's Ferry. It has been pointed out that the way to make a baseboard look wider is for the ground to slope down at the front. I think the theory might also hold if I make the ground slope up behind the line, so later I will be putting in card formers and a tree-line shaped backscene to try and get this very narrow board to look more impressive. Seeing how this is developing I am glad I abandoned the idea of another small bridge to the left of the girder span. Once the trees start going in there will be plenty of visual interest in this section with the trains playing peek-a-boo as they roll through. Chaz Edited February 13, 2015 by chaz 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Looking realy good here buddy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Looking realy good here buddy. Thanks for the encouragement, appreciated, but I think there's a lot to do yet before it looks "really good". I will settle for "promising" until the trees get planted...... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) More progress on the scenic section to the left of the girder bridge... Two plywood formers added - I would usually use card from corrugated card boxes for this role, but these have to help support the backscene. Note the two pine blocks to which the backscene will be screwed. Cutting the backscene from white hardboard on a Hegner power fretsaw. This is a very useful piece of kit, but some thought is needed to plan the direction of cuts so that the depth of the machine's throat doesn't become a problem. Here's the backscene cut to represent a wooded ridge. You can see by the number of offcuts how the cuts were made from many directions to avoid trapping the blade. Finally here's the backscene board in place, screwed to the baseboard frame and the blocks on the two formers. Jobs like this would be impossible with the board in situ against the wall - it must be lifted out of position for access. Onward.... Edited February 15, 2015 by chaz 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2015 That looks very good. I find trying to work out the best shape for the backscene difficult till I have done the front bits. I assume you will be placing sky behind it. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 That looks very good. I find trying to work out the best shape for the backscene difficult till I have done the front bits. I assume you will be placing sky behind it. Don Thanks Don. The plan is to paint the wall a pale blue grading upwards towards white. The "front bits" on this stretch will be trees, trees and more trees. I don't think a lot of the backscene will be clearly visible, just glimpsed here and there. At least thats the intention. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Better to paint it the opposite way around - Blue top graduating down to white at the horizon - paint trees/hills/mountains along the horizon line then overspray a fine coat of matt white primer, repaint closer trees/etc and overspray the whole lot with another fine white coat , then paint the closes trees and do it again - works for distant and nearer buildings too - you'll find that the further away objects naturally recede into the distant haze . For the fine spray do one quick pass with a spraycan about 15-18" away each time. http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/12480 might be worth a look Edited February 16, 2015 by shortliner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Realy coming along well though my mate. Ile keep poping in here see how you get on.. cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 It all takes time.... Yesterday evening I put the card weave in between the roadbed and the backscene and then treated the top surface to some kitchen paper, glued down with cheap PVA. This afternoon I added a layer of paper mache to the back and a second layer to the front. The boring bit is mixing the wallpaper paste and shreddings, the application of the stuff onto the card weave I find quite restful. It's a very clean process compared with plaster, no white drips or dust everywhere. The paper mache pretty much stays where you put it. I have left the right hand of this section loose while I work out how I want to deal with the slopes behind the bridge abutment. Whatever I do I have a baseboard join to disguise. Chaz 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Just realised I have another small job to do at some point soon. Where I have cut the top edge of the backscene there is a dark brown line, the thickness of the hardboard, showing. This will need painting white before I paint the backscene. I think some white emulsion paint will serve - I think the white acrylic I have is a mixing white so may well lack opacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I have decided to put the scenery base across the baseboard join as if the two are one.... ....this shows the card weave crossing over between the two boards. This evening I glued on the kitchen paper with PVA. I will add plenty of the papier mache mix to build up a good thick shell and when it has hardened I will cut through it along the line of baseboard join. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Two or three hours this afternoon mixing and applying the papier mache - it's certainly a labour intensive technique and I do think about whether it might not be a better use of my time to switch to the traditional plaster-soaked bandages - but I do like the cleanliness of the paper. The bluish looking areas are the newly applied bits, as the mix dries it turns whiter. Thinking about this section as I applied and smoothed out dollops of the papier mache I realised just how much there is to do before I can fasten the bridge in place. And until that happens I can't lay the track. No great rush, I do want to sort out the backscene and some sort of river bank - or at least a suggestion of one - on the far side of the river. This work will be much easier if the bridge is not in place - and not at risk of damage. Edit - that irritating gap in the backscene proved to be essential as otherwise it was almost impossible to get the baseboard section lifted out. In due course it will be hidden behind a strategically placed tree(s) - Chaz Edited February 19, 2015 by chaz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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