The Furness Valley Railroad

[mudmagnet]

Hi Chaz

 

Have you seen Backwoods Miniature's website http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com ?

[chaz]

Hi Chaz

 

Have you seen Backwoods Miniature's website http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com ?

 

Yes I have. I bought a few things from them, including their kit for converting a Bachmann combine into a doodlebug and the slope-back tender kit that now runs behind #7 on the FVRR.

 

 

I really must finish this model off with a coal heap on the tender and some weathering. The Backwoods Miniatures catalogue includes some very nice kits many of which I could be tempted by - in due course.

 

Another source of kits for US style stuff here in the UK is...

 

http://www.kitwoodhillmodels.com/

 

...well worth a look. Apart from a nice range of turntables there are several good looking building kits to tempt one.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I thought I ought to check that my proposed wye junction (think triangle) that will lead onto the terminal on the central peninsular will actually fit. I drew some pencil lines to get the alignments correct - the lines are the centre lines of the track. Once these seemed to work I used a brush and indian ink to make the lines bold enough to show clearly in the photographs.

 

 

The glue pot and the weight are there to keep the paper flat but they do make useful markers. Behind the glue pot is the turntable at the end of the staging. The curve from the staging round the wye and passed the weight is 22 inch radius. I didn't want it quite this tight but there is no choice. When operating this curve will represent a branch line.

 

A view looking the other way...

 

 

The curve going away from us in that picture is the main line and will lead to Stoke's Ferry and then on across the river and through the tunnel to the other end of the staging.

 

The last picture shows me holding a Bachmann gondola over the centre line of the track.

 

 

As you can see there is sufficient clearance between the car and that chunky wooden pillar. Not much I can do about that pillar - it supports the ridge-board in the roof and must remain.

 

It all works - JUST - not a lot of room for adjustments. Even if the pillar were not there it would still be tight. I have checked that the two turnouts at the top of the wye will fit and they will - but only if the straight parts, at the points and through the frog are kept as short as possible. I am going to have to make a Y point for the terminal connection to the wye but as it will be a one off I can allow myself a couple of goes to get it right.

 

The large area inside the two semi-circular curves and inside the wye will make a good space for a town. Tasty!

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Chaz

 

The Generator should just pull off, no need to cut it off. It does need a bit of wangling to get it off. Mount it just in front of the cab and do not forget to modify the steam supply pipe. The exhaust pipe should then be a straight pipe with a slight kink towards the cab and not the thing that Bachmann supply.  

 

John

 

Well, I wangled so more, with increasing force until it came free - but the locating pins had snapped off and are still in the smokebox piece. They were extremely well glued in. No matter, I will make a small platform for the generator to sit on - like the one on a Bachmann ten-wheeler.

 

The amount of glue used in the assembly of the Bachmann models seems very variable. The window glazing in the passenger cars, for instance - sometimes it just comes free - and sometimes you have to lever it out with a screwdriver, breaking it into pieces and leaving a horrible mess to clean up.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Further thoughts on the space around the wye...

 

I suppose I could get track into one area by putting a diamond crossing into one of the curves. A turnout out on the straight bit across the top of the wye could feed a track across the curve and on - there might be room for an engine house inside the semi-circle of track.

 

Could a diamond crossing be made to work reliably if one route is curved?  Space is so tight that a small straight section might be enough to spoil any chance of getting a wye in. If I try this I could put in the hand-laid crossing into the curved route first. Having tested it I either rip it out (if it doesn't work) and re-lay with plain track or, if it works OK, add the route to the engine house.

 

Chaz

Edited December 14, 2016 by chaz

[chaz]

This is what I have in mind to fit in the engine house...

 

 

Here I am using a Fast Tracks plywood tie-base to get the size and position of the turnout. The steel straight-edge is the track across the curve and the piece of grey card is the footprint of the shed. I don't think I can get two tracks to the engine house although I will have a try at drawing out the geometry of the turnouts and diamonds that will be needed. Should only a single track be possible I will build the shed so that one half has a track and the other is set up as a workshop area.

 

The kit I am considering for the engine house is by Kitwood Hill Models. Take a look at....

 

http://www.kitwoodhillmodels.com/on30-2-road-engine-shed/

 

Chaz

[Mookie]

 

Amazing detail and craftsmanship. I love the contrast between the foreground modelling and graphic backdrop. A really inspirational layout.

[Donw]

Further thoughts on the space around the wye...

 

I suppose I could get track into one area by putting a diamond crossing into one of the curves. A turnout out on the straight bit across the top of the wye could feed a track across the curve and on - there might be room for an engine house inside the semi-circle of track.

 

Could a diamond crossing be made to work reliably if one route is curved?  Space is so tight that a small straight section might be enough to spoil any chance of getting a wye in. If I try this I could put in the hand-laid crossing into the curved route first. Having tested it I either rip it out (if it doesn't work) and re-lay with plain track or, if it works OK, add the route to the engine house.

 

Chaz

 

I cannot see any reason why the curved crossing shouldn't be possible. I think I would build it using copperclad/soldered construction rather than spiking the soldered construction would allow for adjustment. Building and testing it first makes sense. 

 

Don

[chaz]

 

Amazing detail and craftsmanship. I love the contrast between the foreground modelling and graphic backdrop. A really inspirational layout.

 

Thanks for the very encouraging comments. You will have read that the plan is to complete the layout a section at a time. At the moment the only finished part is from the tunnel to just over the girder bridge. The next section is a big one - the station at Stoke's Ferry. Some buildings from kits, lots more trees, bushes and grass, ballast and ground cover, a road, a few vehicles, a few figures etc etc. I hope to finish the Stoke's Ferry section during 2017 and then (and only then) I will allow myself to move on the the wye junction.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I cannot see any reason why the curved crossing shouldn't be possible. I think I would build it using copperclad/soldered construction rather than spiking the soldered construction would allow for adjustment. Building and testing it first makes sense. 

 

Don

 

I hope you are right Don. Technically speaking crossings are not usually (never?) curved. There is a gap in the rail in the heart of a crossing (frog) which presents a problem. A wheel passing through is momentarily unguided so the risk is that the wheel flange will strike the nose of the opposite side of the gap leading to a bump, a lurch or even a derailment. With a correctly set up crossing with a straight path through this doesn't happen - the gap is kept as small as possible and there is no sideways force to deflect the wheel as there is on a curve.

 

I will certainly build it by soldering the rail to PCB and the centre of the crossing will be on a special tie - basically a square with a square hole in it and with four insulating gaps. Two of the four crossings will need to be polarity switched.

 

If, when tested, a curved crossing does not work smoothly it may be possible to insert a very short straight bit into the curved section of the section of the track and still make the wye work. It will mean slewing the straight track at the back to accomodate the offset and some careful adjusting of the curve.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

A Mark Two device

 

With four operating wires from the Tortoises to trim at the west end of the area I decided to make a more effective filing shield to protect the ties etc.

 

I folded up a piece of tinplate into a "U" shaped section and drilled a 1mm hole in the middle.

 

 

 

Holding down one end of the jig a flat needle file can be used to file the pin with no risk of damaging the turnout.

 

 

Chaz

[Barnaby]

Lovely work Chaz. 

I've just played catch up on the "story so far" having been occupied with other things just lately, lots happening and lots more to come.

 

Best

[chaz]

Lovely work Chaz. 

I've just played catch up on the "story so far" having been occupied with other things just lately, lots happening and lots more to come.

 

Best

 

Thanks for that. Things will slow down a bit as there is going to be a lot of detail work to do and I also want to make some progress with the rolling stock. A priority is to get DCC sound into all the motive power and then everything on wheels will require weathering. It makes so much difference to the realism.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

Chaz I have a feeling the success of the curved crossing will depend on the range of b to b of the stock. The wing rails of the other frog act as check rails. If all the stock is in a close range of B to B yo should be able to set it up so thay run through cleanly.

 

Don

[chaz]

I will certainly build it by soldering the rail to PCB and the centre of the crossing will be on a special tie - basically a square with a square hole in it and with four insulating gaps. Two of the four crossings will need to be polarity switched.

 

 

Did I type "a square"? No, with such an oblique angle the special tie will be a parallelogram (the clue is in the term "diamond" crossing). It will be easier to get everything flat and true if the "tie" is in one piece. The hole in the middle will be there for appearances sake. It occurs to me that if I make the crossing ahead of time it can be inserted into the 22 inch radius curve leading away from the staging. Stock can pass through the curved route to test it, should it be a failure then the idea of the track leading to the engine house can be quietly dropped.

 

Chaz

Edited December 16, 2016 by chaz

[Donw]

Did I type "a square"? No, with such an oblique angle the special tie will be a parallelogram (the clue is in the term "diamond" crossing). It will be easier to get everything flat and true if the "tie" is in one piece. The hole in the middle will be there for appearances sake. It occurs to me that if I make the crossing ahead of time it can be inserted into the 22 inch radius curve leading away from the staging. Stock can pass through the curved route to test it, should it be a failure then the idea of the track leading to the engine house can be quietly dropped.

 

Chaz

 

That makes good sense Chaz

 

Don

[chaz]

L

 

Can I make one comment though and that is your tie bar on your switches, I think based on track diagrams I have should not be as long as the two ties either side for the switch stand. The connection between the tie bar and switch stand is usually a metal rod. But however you might have evidence otherwise as my evidence is based on information of the D&RGW RR and I have not got the time to go off looking at other railroads. Got a Depot building to get on with and not a lot of time to get it done.

 

John     

 

John, you will be glad to hear I dealt with this mistake this afternoon. I had followed the layout of ties, including the throw tie, shown on the Fast Tracks templates. Your comment makes perfect sense so how to shorten them? My first thought was to use a very sharp chisel. I tested this on a scrap piece of PCB tie and it worked well BUT when it came to doing the first turnout there was no room between the chisel and the ceiling for a mallet - and it required a forceful tap to cut through.

 

In the end I used a carborundum cutting disc in my Dremel. Not a nice tool but effective.

 

 

It wasn't possible to cut right through without the disc marking the extended ties to either side (in fact you can see the tiniest nick - but this should disappear under a splosh of paint) but half way through proved enough. The excess piece of the throw tie could be bent up and down a couple of times and it would just snap cleanly off. I did pack below the tie with strips of card before cutting to prevent the downward pressure breaking the solder joint where the point blade meets the throw tie.

 

Next step will be to have a go at installing the harp switch-stands that I bought from Paul Martin (EDM Models).

 

Chaz

 

PS - Of course all future turnouts will have the shorter throw ties!

Edited December 19, 2016 by chaz

[chaz]

 

Amazing detail and craftsmanship. I love the contrast between the foreground modelling and graphic backdrop. A really inspirational layout.

 

I thought I would add a more recent shot of the same view that includes the trees added in front of the line - better than the patches of bare ground?

 

 

it also includes the weathering of the bridge's steelwork.

 

Chaz

Edited December 19, 2016 by chaz

[81A Oldoak]

 

I thought I would add a more recent shot of the same view that includes the trees added in front of the line - better than the patches of bare ground?

 

 

it also includes the weathering of the bridge's steelwork.

 

Chaz

Looking very nice Chaz.

[Fettster42]

Really I'm quite dissapointed that this is in your loft so unlike Dock Green we wont get to see this in the flesh. The modelling is incredible.

 

Leigh

[Loconuts]

Really I'm quite dissapointed that this is in your loft so unlike Dock Green we wont get to see this in the flesh. The modelling is incredible.

 

Leigh

 

Having seen Chaz's work in the flesh today I can say it is better than the photos and all I can say is that I am sorry it will not be appearing at a show near anyone. The only criticism is that the loft hatch is a bit tight. I think I need to diet.

[chaz]

Really I'm quite dissapointed that this is in your loft so unlike Dock Green we wont get to see this in the flesh. The modelling is incredible.

 

Leigh

 

Thanks for the very positive comment, Leigh. I did spend some time thinking about whether the FVRR should be portable. In the end I reluctantly conceeded that I would be forced to make too many compromises if I had to get it all down through the hatch and the ladder. It may be that a smaller, portable version might be attempted when the main layout is more complete (say in a couple of year's time)....a small branch line. Some of the buildings I will have "in the roof" could be fitted so that they lift off.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Having seen Chaz's work in the flesh today I can say it is better than the photos and all I can say is that I am sorry it will not be appearing at a show near anyone. The only criticism is that the loft hatch is a bit tight. I think I need to diet.

 

Strange, I've never found any problem getting through the hatch.

 

Better than the photos? Thanks for that. Only one thing is definitely better in the photos and that's the river. But we must all live with the fact that our water doesn't move....

[Donw]

Strange, I've never found any problem getting through the hatch.

 

Better than the photos? Thanks for that. Only one thing is definitely better in the photos and that's the river. But we must all live with the fact that our water doesn't move....

 

I have seen a layout using real water (across a baseboard join too!) but real water doesn't look right as its movement doesn't scale. However in MRJ a layout was featured which used glycerine (IIRC) and the builder had worked out a means of making the tide go in and out but obviously adds a lot of complications.

I think water is one of those areas where compromise has to be accepted. Your water looks pretty good to me 

 

Don

[chaz]

My Christmas pressy last year was the Banta kit for Strong depot...

 

http://www.micromark.com/strong-depot-model-kit-o-scale,9041.html

 

I didn't build it then as I had nowhere to put it but now that I need it for Stoke's Ferry I am treating it as my Christmas project this year.

 

If you are interested I will post some of the steps as I go. If you want to see more just click "like" - if nobody does I will just post a few photos of the finished building.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

First there is a box like structure to put together at one end. So that the other parts fit well it's important that this is put together square. Here is the first joint set up square.

 

 

The wall piece is held tightly against a steel block...

 

 

...by four very strong magnets. I run aliphatic glue, which is very runny and penetrates well, along the joint and then leave it to set. the label on the bottle says "10 minutes"  - I got on with preparing other parts, so it had well over half an hour.

 

The next step is to assemble some other parts which make up the box.

 

 

The accuracy of the parts is excellent and the fit really good but they do need a little help if they are to set square. In the photo above you can see that I have moved the steel block and the magnets to the second wall. The four ribs that will support two bay windows are in place and I have placed an engineer's square against the wall I glued first. The whole assembly, including the square, is held snugly together with two long elastic bands.

 

Here I am running in the glue...

 

 

You may recall that earlier in this topic I explained that I shortened the metal tube applicator on my bottle of glue. It is very prone to clog up but with it shortened it can be cleared, either with a length of steel wire or, if the clogging is really bad, with a 0.7mm drill in a pin-chuck.

 

Here's the "box" with the glue set and the rubber-bands etc removed.

 

 

The next two walls are in place but dry - no glue yet. This was to test the fit, which you can see is excellent. This is due to two things - the tabs and slots in the kit are really accurate and will serve to hold parts in place while glue is added and my efforts to get the first bit of the assembly square have worked.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A comment about the steel block and the magnets (which I bought from Phil' of Hobby Holidays)

 

You do need to be very careful when placing or removing the magnets. The force exerted is very strong and they will jump into place. The impact of this is quite enough to snap thin wooden or plastic parts if they are not well supported. As much care needs to be taken when removing the magnets - sliding them sideways is often more controllable than pulling them off.

 

Incidentally, the steel block has been milled on all six faces and all the corners are accurate right angles.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I also did a couple of tests yesterday to check whether the glues I am planning to use would work on painted surfaces.

 

 

I had painted two scrap pieces of wood siding with Tamiya acrylics as a colour test. I glued two other wood scraps to these, one with fast PVA and the other with aliphatic. Both glues seem to work well on the painted surfaces.

 

Chaz