chaz Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) I can't decide whether or not to have a backscene on the peninsular. I don't think it is wide enough to put one down the middle and model a different scene on each side. If I omit the backscene the station can be operated from either side but is visually problematic, especially for photographs. Erecting a backscene along one side - probably with a long row of low-relief buildings would definitely improve the look but would rule out operating from both sides - any thoughts? Chaz Edited January 15, 2017 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2017 Good neat work on the baseboard Chaz. As for the backscene I would think a low one wouldn't get too much in the way of operating but you would lose the view of the train from that side. It would be like operating an exhibition layout you can operate from the rear but the best view is from the front. Could you have a simple skyscene on paper or canvas and just put it up for photo shoots? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen 28 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I agree with Don, a movable backscene for photography to preserve the option to view the peninsula from either side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 I agree with Don, a movable backscene for photography to preserve the option to view the peninsula from either side. Well, a movable backscene is possible but the peninsular is about eight feet long so that idea doesn't really appeal. Apart from anything else it would give me a storage problem. It would be possible to do a shorter one but this would limit the possible viewing angles to straight on or nearly so - oblique angles show up the ends. I was assuming that there would be no backscene with the obvious all-round advantage but now that I have seen the baseboards I don't think this is an option. "Could you have a simple skyscene on paper or canvas and just put it up for photo shoots?" Yes Don BUT you immediately run into the same problem I have had from time to time with Dock Green - how do you support such a thing and keep it flat enough not to need a Photoshop rescue job? If I do fit a backscene to one side it will be removeable in sections, like the one on Dock Green, so that it doesn't get in the way of any work carried out towards that side. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) If I fit a backsene it will run down the left hand side in this view. Operating headroom is better on the right. The backsceen can run round that curve in the foreground and stop at the pillar. IF I do it it will comprise a long row of buildings - very shallow flats and varying in height - and I can arrange them so that they are pegged into holes and supported at the back by timber uprights. This will make them easy to remove either singly or in groups. As I think about this it becomes more and more appealing. After all the rest of the layout can only be viewed from the front. Chaz Edited January 15, 2017 by chaz 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Can you hinge the backscene, so it folds down when you don't want it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Chose a preferential side for operating from and use high scenery (and no back scene) on the other side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2017 I would go for the backscene down one side. For me the views across the peninsular would be degraded by seeing the baseboards across the aisles from it. With a backscene each bit would be seen on its own with no other views. The mainline is compressed and wound round the room in reality there woul be no way you could see two stations at the same time as they would be miles apart. With no backscene on the peninsular it would be possible and would destroy the illusion. My earlier answer was in response to the fact that you had chosen to have both sides viewing and was concerned about photos. I have seen the same effect done in a garden railway where by careful screening of plants each station was hidden from anyone operating one of the others maintaining the illusion. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 I would go for the backscene down one side. For me the views across the peninsular would be degraded by seeing the baseboards across the aisles from it. With a backscene each bit would be seen on its own with no other views. The mainline is compressed and wound round the room in reality there woul be no way you could see two stations at the same time as they would be miles apart. With no backscene on the peninsular it would be possible and would destroy the illusion. My earlier answer was in response to the fact that you had chosen to have both sides viewing and was concerned about photos. I have seen the same effect done in a garden railway where by careful screening of plants each station was hidden from anyone operating one of the others maintaining the illusion. Don I must admit Don that before I made up the baseboards (benchwork?) I had thought it would be good to be able to view the scene from both sides but as soon as I saw that large area I realised that a backscene would be a much better option. If most of the operation is carried out from the "good side" (the comfortable side with more headroom) the only reason for going round to the other side will be to set up or break down trains in the staging area. Without a backscene the staging area would be the backdrop - not pretty! Maintaining the illusion is good. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Chose a preferential side for operating from and use high scenery (and no back scene) on the other side. Yes, I think you are right, but the scenery will be buildings. The station is in the centre of a town. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Can you hinge the backscene, so it folds down when you don't want it? Yes I could but if I put half-relief buildings along it these would be rather vulnerable when it's folded down - the aisle on the staging side is not that wide. Thinking about the backscene - the only time it I won't want it is when I am working rather than operating. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted January 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2017 How about a white roller blind that you can then do more of your silhouette printing onto that was so successful in the mountain area. There are 8' examples on eBay for about £30. You could even push the boat out and have two so that you can take your photos from either side rather than restricting them to just one. I'm sure if you supported it well you could even attache low relief elements to the blind itself (as long as you don't then try to roll it up completely!) which would take care of them being delicate when the back-scene isn't there by lifting them up above your head. Only thing you'd miss out on is something that curves around the end so you'd be restricted in your end on shots. Not something I've tried myself... just trying to think a bit out of the box. Kind regards, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) How about a white roller blind that you can then do more of your silhouette printing onto that was so successful in the mountain area. There are 8' examples on eBay for about £30. You could even push the boat out and have two so that you can take your photos from either side rather than restricting them to just one. I'm sure if you supported it well you could even attache low relief elements to the blind itself (as long as you don't then try to roll it up completely!) which would take care of them being delicate when the back-scene isn't there by lifting them up above your head. Only thing you'd miss out on is something that curves around the end so you'd be restricted in your end on shots. Not something I've tried myself... just trying to think a bit out of the box. Kind regards, Neil It's an interesting idea Neil, which hadn't ocurred to me. I'm not sure that the ceiling is high enough to make it workable though. I think I will probably go for a long row of building flats with some relief details and keep the top edges simple to Photoshop - and then put in a digital sky in photos. The painted wooded-hills effect will appear behind other parts of the line - on the opposite wall to the one where the girder bridge is a strong possibility - it will be difficult on the long side to the left of Stoke's Ferry as the slope of the ceiling will probably rule it out. However this is all in the future - I have no intention of doing much to the peninsular until Stoke's Ferry is finished. I may lay the wye and put some temporary staging tracks down as a way of making operating more interesting. Chaz Edited January 16, 2017 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) I have made up one of the EDM harp switch stands but have yet to try it on a switch. But I have a question. Should it swing from one side to the other, or from vertical (for straight on) to tilted (for curved route)? Can you tell me? Chaz Edited July 3, 2017 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJon30 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) When I assembled them they swing from side to side, which is the approximate throw of the points. I suppose the middle position would be for a 3 way point? I soldered a larger "foot" to enable them to be pinned down to the extended ties. I have used the 2 tone paint scheme with white for main and red for secondary. The public like to see them move when the layout is at a show. Rgds Andrew Edited January 18, 2017 by AJon30 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) When I assembled them they swing from side to side, which is the approximate throw of the points. I suppose the middle position would be for a 3 way point? Harp stands.jpg I soldered a larger "foot" to enable them to be pinned down to the extended ties. SVMRC 2.jpg I have used the 2 tone paint scheme with white for main and red for secondary. The public like to see them move when the layout is at a show. Rgds Andrew "When I assembled them they swing from side to side, which is the approximate throw of the points." I think, looking at the flangeway of the turnout in your photo, that my points might well have a smaller throw. "I suppose the middle position would be for a 3 way point?" Unfortunately the picture you posted above showing a three-way stub point at Strong doesn't show a harp stand, but I think you are right. "I soldered a larger "foot" to enable them to be pinned down to the extended ties." I will certainly need to do the same. "The public like to see them move when the layout is at a show." Good point, however the FVRR will never go to a show... Was the full throw from one side to the other typical of prototype practice or did they use from vertical to one side (let's call it half movement)? Can anybody answer this with any certainty? Wikipedia doesn't know. Chaz Edited January 19, 2017 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJon30 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Quickly looking at pictures of real life harp stands a certain percentage do look like the stand straight up for "straight ahead". (the one in the background). The problem is trying to get a shot of the same location with the switch in both positions. The throw is relative to the position of the operating arm locating hole. Rgds Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Quickly looking at pictures of real life harp stands a certain percentage do look like the stand straight up for "straight ahead". (the one in the background). Harp stands 3.jpg The problem is trying to get a shot of the same location with the switch in both positions. The throw is relative to the position of the operating arm locating hole. Rgds Andrew Excellent - thanks for that. "The one in the background" in the picture you posted reassures me that a vertical and angled indication is OK. In fact looking carefully - there are two in the background both showing a vertical flag. Yes, I'm sure you can alter the throw by moving the hole but if you go too far up the lever (necessary if the throw of the point blades is small) then the operating wire will not line up with the gap in the harp frame. When I have the first one installed I will photograph its two indications. Chaz Edited January 19, 2017 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fitting an Omega loop should adjust for throw differences - and, if the Harp is latchable, possibly provide a point blade holding closed force? Regarding the three-way turnout - an interesting point-blade arrangement. Is this just because it is a non-staggered three-way? Are the two-way ones similar or with regular planed point blades? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fitting an Omega loop should adjust for throw differences - and, if the Harp is latchable, possibly provide a point blade holding closed force? Regarding the three-way turnout - an interesting point-blade arrangement. Is this just because it is a non-staggered three-way? Are the two-way ones similar or with regular planed point blades? That is a stub point. There are no normal point blades planned to fit against stock rails. Instead the stock rails are moved to align with the one of the three pairs of stock rails of the three referent routes. They pre-date the blades turnouts and are usually only used where speeds are low and probably not on passenger lines. One thing this does is answer the question of whether the three position can be used for a three way. However I am not sure how that would work with a bladed three way where the two sets of blades are seperately operated. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJon30 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Dolores depot on the Rio Grande Southern has a 3 way stub switch on the main line used by passenger trains However if you are up for a challenge for scratch building, there is always this: Rgds Andrew 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Wow! a 12in to the foot fiddle yard! There's a prototype for everything! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen 28 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 If I fit a backsene it will run down the left hand side in this view. Operating headroom is better on the right. The backsceen can run round that curve in the foreground and stop at the pillar. IF I do it it will comprise a long row of buildings - very shallow flats and varying in height - and I can arrange them so that they are pegged into holes and supported at the back by timber uprights. This will make them easy to remove either singly or in groups. As I think about this it becomes more and more appealing. After all the rest of the layout can only be viewed from the front. Chaz Sounds like this may be the best compromise, especially as it shields the storage yard from view. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fitting an Omega loop should adjust for throw differences - and, if the Harp is latchable, possibly provide a point blade holding closed force? Regarding the three-way turnout - an interesting point-blade arrangement. Is this just because it is a non-staggered three-way? Are the two-way ones similar or with regular planed point blades? "Fitting an Omega loop should adjust for throw differences" Yes, you are quite right but a loop can only absorb excessive movement, it can't increase movement that is insufficient. "...if the Harp is latchable, possibly provide a point blade holding closed force?" Yes again. The instruction slip that comes with the castings suggests that it can be used to drive the blades or can be driven by the blades. The latter is my option as all my turnouts are powered by Tortoise point motors. So I have to file off the latches. "Regarding the three-way turnout - an interesting point-blade arrangement. Is this just because it is a non-staggered three-way? Are the two-way ones similar or with regular planed point blades?" It's a stub point - it doesn't have blades. The switch stand bends the approach track so that it lines up with one of the three routes. The rails are supported underneath (as indeed point blades are) and are kept to gauge by two or three steel bars bolted through. The two way stubs work on exactly the same principle. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Progress today with the deck planking. I must admit with a job like this I am torn between little-and-often and get-it-over-with. Chaz Edited July 3, 2017 by chaz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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