The Furness Valley Railroad

[chaz]

"What's so terrible about wires?" Answer: dirty track and wheels, fragile current collectors, unnecessarily complicated chassis, stay-alive units, polarity switching on points etc etc. I won't go as far as to say, yet, that DCC will end up like VHS and CDs, but true wireless control via RC must be the real goal and is surely only a matter of time as we crack the problem of miniaturisation of receivers and batteries. I have some Tam Valley Depot equipment to try in a loco, but I'm held up only by sourcing suitable batteries that don't threaten to explode or spontaneously combust.

 

Regards,

 

Chris 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of your points but I can't help feeling that the battery problems might be perennial.....

 

• too big to fit into small locos (and who wants a solution that only fits some)
• uses up all the space you might have used for a speaker
• charge runs down too quickly
• charges too slowly
• where do you put the aerial on a metal model?
• swapping batteries involves too much handling of locos

 

Perfection is unavailable and any solution to the problems inherent with track pickup will bring its own bag of downsides. So...

 

• I remain to be convinced
• it's too late for the FVRR - I want it running NOW so I have nailed my colours - but I do own a claw hammer.

I must just add that after I finished the wiring of the new hand laid section (as you might expect) the running was very poor. As I had been working on the line dust had been stirred up and it hadn't run for a few weeks. Ten minutes with a Peco track rubber and the running was nigh on faultless. I will be treating the railtops with graphite which should prolong this standard.

 

Chaz

[Jeff Smith]

Battery technology is moving forward quite fast. The general public does not necessarily appreciate this but power density, size and charge times are all improving. Look at drones, phones and even prototype electric aircraft being developed by Airbus. I bought a 32v strimmer recently, the battery is similar in size to a drill battery and the other day lasted for about an hour of edging and trimming!

 

Perhaps a hybrid model could be developed - radio control with battery on-board recharged via live track sections. Track wiring could be simplified without the need for frog switching.....

[BG John]

Battery technology is moving forward quite fast. The general public does not necessarily appreciate this but power density, size and charge times are all improving. Look at drones, phones and even prototype electric aircraft being developed by Airbus. I bought a 32v strimmer recently, the battery is similar in size to a drill battery and the other day lasted for about an hour of edging and trimming!

 

Perhaps a hybrid model could be developed - radio control with battery on-board recharged via live track sections. Track wiring could be simplified without the need for frog switching.....

There seem to be a lot of options, and it's ideal for people who want to play around and develop a system that suits their particular requirements. That's what I'm working on at the moment using Arduinos. I'm just starting to look at finding batteries to fit in particular locos. My first effort will just use 2 or 4 AAA rechargeables, before I get on to Lipos. Charging from a live section of track is practical, and so is induction charging if you don't want live rails. Set it up in places where a loco is likely to be standing for some time.

 

I'm starting in OO gauge, before I convert my O gauge locos, and would like to make my O-16.5 locos RC too, as I build them. If I can manage to get a DIY system that is bigger than the commercially available ones into OO locos, O gauge of any size shouldn't be a problem. I hope to discover if it works in the not too distant future .

[chaz]

I have expressed this thought before somewhere else on the forum....

 

What would suit me would be a battery powered radio receiver that sits in front of a DCC decoder such that the decoder "thinks" it's getting power and the control signal from the track. That way the full functionality of an existing DCC set up would be preserved. Maybe the transmitter could sit behind the DCC set-up, so that existing handsets would be used for control.

 

Chaz

[BG John]

I'm not using DCC, but other people are, so it's possible.

[81A Oldoak]

I have expressed this thought before somewhere else on the forum....

 

What would suit me would be a battery powered radio receiver that sits in front of a DCC decoder such that the decoder "thinks" it's getting power and the control signal from the track. That way the full functionality of an existing DCC set up would be preserved. Maybe the transmitter could sit behind the DCC set-up, so that existing handsets would be used for control.

 

Chaz

Chaz,

That is how Tam Valley is supposed to work and I will try to fit it when I have found a suitable battery. Unfortunately, my Prodigy handset has just packed up and needs replacement.

Chris

[chaz]

Chaz,

That is how Tam Valley is supposed to work and I will try to fit it when I have found a suitable battery. Unfortunately, my Prodigy handset has just packed up and needs replacement.

Chris

 

 

So if that's a success you could change over to radio control one loco at a time? 

 

Chaz

[BG John]

There's no reason why you can't mix track powered DC or DCC, and battery powered radio control. I'm planning to wire part of my OO layout for DC, even though it will be mostly dead rail RC. I've got a Heljan Railbus I won't be brave enough to convert to RC for some time, that only needs to run on the main line, and I can use this part of the layout to run other DC locos that I'm testing (and O-16.5 as long as I stop before the tunnels and platform!!). The track controller will effectively be an RC loco receiver that's fixed to the baseboard, and controlled just like any normal RC loco. I'll just need to remember to clean that part of the track!

[chaz]

I spent the last two or three days making up the card-weave base for the rock cut which will separate Stoke's Ferry from Coal Mine Junction.

 

 

I started by cutting some ribs out of corrugated card, joining them together with halving joints.

 

 

I put the sides on card bases so they can be lifted off of the layout to be worked on.

 

 

Above, a view along the cut once the weave was added.

 

 

A view from the front. You have to imagine the top of the bank with bushes, shrubs and trees and the steeply sloping cut with rock castings. I will need to deal with the ends - once I have figured out how to blend the cut.

 

 

And this last shot shows why I wanted to do this. A train looks good snaking through the cut.

 

Chaz

Edited August 11, 2017 by chaz

[chaz]

An experiment...

 

 

Sue bought some hessian sacks from B & Q and I thought I would try a sample to see if it would be effective at stiffening the card weave. I coated the weave with a 50:50 PVA and water mix, pressed on the hessian and then "painted" it with a further going over with the mix. It worked a treat - the following day it had dried to quite a stiff shell.

 

 

I need road access to the foundry building so I have started a road crossing at the end of the cut. I used thin plywood cut so that the easily bent grain direction is along the road.

 

 

The end of the rocky slopes will need blending in probably with a low vertical rock face.

 

Chaz 

 

 

[81A Oldoak]

So if that's a success you could change over to radio control one loco at a time? 

 

Chaz

Correct. The locos are isolated from the track.

[chaz]

Correct. The locos are isolated from the track.

 

 

I think I have said to you before that I would like to see the set-up working once you have it sorted. 

 

Incidentally you could replace the Prodigy system very cheaply with a Roco Multimaus set - German dealers sell these off very cheaply (they break up sets for the contents and sell off the DCC).

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I thought that it wouldn't look natural if the scenery stopped dead at the road and foundry so I have extended the cut to the right of the road. I hope to imply that the ground was levelled to build the foundry by adding slopes in front and behind.

 

 

I started, as before, with a card base and some profile ribs.

 

 

The picture above shows the card weave added to the extension and also to the end of the back part of the cut. That's the easy bit done - now the hard work starts, turning this into a realistic landscape.

 

 

Last snap shows how the road rises away from the crossing. The road will be modelled turning behind the foundry building with either a rock face or a stone or crib wall to close off that far end.

 

Chaz

 

 

[chaz]

Taking a break from scenery to make some progress with the Kitwood Hill Models turntable kit.

 

 

It's very satisfying to assemble a kit which fits together so well that the parts will hold together dry (with no glue).

 

 

 

The rail provided in the kit is steel. I had my doubts about soldering this but it proved to be no problem using my usual liquid flux and 145 solder. 

 

Chaz

 

 

 

 

[chaz]

Turntable progress

 

I should just say that I don't intend to cover the steps that the excellent instructions, that come as a PDF download, do. I will mention a point or two that might be helpful.

 

 

First, a snap of the electronics I am going to use. On the left a Tam Valley "Dual Frog Juicer" which will deal with the necessary polarity reversal of the turntable track. On the right a Lenz decoder which I will use to drive the motor if it proves viable - I will test it shortly and if it still works set its address as 99. The decoder was taken out of a 7mm brass tank loco' when it was given sound.

 

 

I chose the wood panels for the edge of the well. I found these a loose fit so I pushed some paper slips to tighten the joint at their base while the aliphatic glue hardened.

 

 

Simon (of Kitwood Hill Models) suggests in his instructions that the underside of the decking pieces should be bevelled to allow them to butt against the rails. I used a block plane to do this.

 

 

I adopted Simon's suggestion of using Peco SL100 track, removing half of the sleepers and using the remainder, adjusted to fit between the wood ties, to maintain the gauge. I clipped the side decking pieces in position so that they held the track straight and centred. I found that some pieces of cereal-box card between the decks and the ties helped to keep them level in spite of the chairs on the Peco sleepers.

On the right are my spiking tools.

• Needle file - I find the square end of this the best thing if the spikes need pushing home.
• Pin chuck with 0.7mm drill
• small brass drilling jig
• pliers with the end of the jaws ground  smaller

 

Drilling the hole for a spike. The hand that I am using to take the picture would normally be holding the brass strip firmly in the web of the rail.

 

Chaz

Edited August 27, 2017 by chaz

[chaz]

Turntable progress

 

In this picture I have inverted the well to show the wiring.

 

 

Some notes

• pieces of pine glued to base to avoid fixing screws coming through the base - it's also easier to put screws into pine than plywood
• Lenz decoder (a 1014 - obsolete but perfectly good for this job and, until now, languishing in a drawer) fixed in place with a square sticky bud
• green and orange wires from the right are the DCC connection
• green and orange (from tags 1 & 2) run to the input of the Tam Valley board
• violet wires run from the output of that board to the plungers and then via PCB slip rings to the track
• green and orange loops (to tags 3 & 4) connect to the red and black of the decoder
• grey and orange (on tags 5 & 6) connect the motor to the decoder

 

A quick test shows the turntable to run slowly, smoothly and almost silently. Certainly if the loco being turned has sound on the motor noise will not be apparent at all.

 

More later.

 

Chaz

[BG John]

Is the motor directly driving the turntable? The no load speed appears to be 0.6 RPM, so it's certainly nice and slow. How do you stop it in the right place?

[chaz]

Is the motor directly driving the turntable? The no load speed appears to be 0.6 RPM, so it's certainly nice and slow. How do you stop it in the right place?

 

 

Yes, direct drive. there is a substantial coupling inside that plywood support structure linking the output spindle from the gear box with the spindle fixed to the direct drive plate that is a snug fit between the girders.

 

Yes the rated speed is 0.6 RPM which, if anything looks a little fast to my eye. There is no indexing so the table must be aligned by eye but as I will be "driving" it with the DCC handset with as much control over speed and direction as if I were driving a loco I don't imagine this will be too difficult. I have set the address of the decoder to 99 so there should be no clash with loco numbers.  

 

Chaz

[BG John]

I think I'll need to build a smaller, probably 5" diameter, turntable for the O-16.5 layout I'm planning. If all goes well the layout will only be for radio controlled locos, so no innocent amphibians will be harmed! I was intending to use an Arduino controlled stepper motor, but it would make operation more challenging if the operator had to align it by eye. There's no rush to decide though, so I'll see how you get on with yours .

[chaz]

Making progress with planning Dixon

 

I have always preferred planning layouts full size on paper. I have made a start on “Dixon”, the western terminus of the Furness Valley line.

 

 

To help me to plan out the connections to the turntable I put the disc that I had cut from the baseboard back in place, supported on tabs of plywood. This gave me an accurate centre to which I could align the approach tracks and spurs.

 

 

The card with the red border represents the two road engine house with the centre lines of the tracks drawn in. The line from Stoke’s Ferry sweeps round the pillar on the right and the connection from the turntable connects just out of shot on the right.

 

———————————————————————————

 

I decided to lay out some stock on top of the drawn track layout to assess the look. 

 

• Looking the other way, the two Broadway C-16s are “inside” the shed. 
• Beyond them the Bachmann ten-wheeler is standing on a track that comes out of the back of the shed and may be connected into the yard - I haven’t decided on that.
• The three pieces of brown card are the footprints of buildings.

• The scene at the far end of Dixon yard.
• The two boxcars are on a spur which may service a loading bay with a canopy.
• The baggage car is on a spur which will be used for spare passenger cars. 
• #24 has just brought in a three car passenger train and is about to run round them and will carry on to the turntable and servicing area.
• I borrowed the depot building from Stoke’s Ferry to see how how a building that size would look.

 

The station area from the operating side. The boxcar just in front of the depot building is standing on a spur which continues behind the camera. It connects to the main track which the three passenger cars are on.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Well, Simon of Kitwood Hill Models has taken my turntable away to investigate why it's movement becomes so jerky when a Bachmann loco is on the deck. He has promised to try and fix it - it's important to him to try and sort out the problem as mine is not the first of this particular model to have this problem.

 

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In the meantime I have made some progress with the track for Dixon. 

 

 

That's a LH switch, fresh off the Fast Tracks jig and plonked onto a tie-rack to try it into position.

 

 

Later here are three switches soldered up, glued to their tie-racks and laid in position. The switch in the foreground will lead to a loop and a couple spurs, the middle one will be the connection to the turntable. The most distant switch will lead to the team track. The Bachmann truck was being used to check the smoothness of the passage through the crossings. Track making is at a halt until a batch of code 83 rail arrives from Devon.

 

 

A view from the other side of the three switches. There is still a lot to do to them, they need painting, wiring and fixing down and the Tortoises need installing.

 

The Bachmann ten-wheeler, #25, is in pieces having a Soundtraxx Econami decoder fitted. More on this later.

 

Chaz 

Edited September 18, 2017 by chaz

[chaz]

Gulp! I have just taken delivery of a Banta laser-cut kit for Phillips depot, which I will use as the depot building at Dixon. Have a look at...

 

http://www.bantamodelworks.com/BSC4099.html

 

The model is a larger version of the "Strong" depot that I have installed at Stoke's Ferry. It seems good to have a style for the depots on the Furness Valley. I think one of the directors of the FV must have been to Maine and admired the depots on the two foot SR&RL.  

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Well, Simon of Kitwood Hill Models has taken my turntable away to investigate why it's movement becomes so jerky when a Bachmann loco is on the deck. He has promised to try and fix it - it's important to him to try and sort out the problem as mine is not the first of this particular model to have this problem.

 

 

Oops!

 

Simon tells me that the jerking problem with the turntable was caused by the paint I put on the circular rail in the well.

He tells me that once he had cleaned it back to bright steel the movement became smooth.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Just thought I would report that Simon delivered the turntable back to me yesterday.

 

The action is now silky smooth even with the weight (considerable) of a Bachmann ten-wheeler sitting on it. Next job is to lay the the approach tracks. These will need some packing as the rails on the TT are a little higher that my hand-laid track - more on this soon.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Well a bit of a marathon but I have the eight switches for Dixon soldered up and ready to lay. 

 

 

In the photo the eight are laid out in their approximate positions. The crossover in the foreground is to release the loco of an arriving passenger train. I would have preferred a wye junction so that the entire train could be turned but there proved to be insufficient room for this. However this does mean I can justify a turntable - hoorah!

 

 

Three of the switches in this shot have laser-cut tie racks. The other five will have the rail spiked to balsa ties in between the PCB ties.

 

 

There is the splendid Kitwood Hill Models turntable back in place with a Bachmann ten-wheeler sitting on it, for test purposes. Anyone who owns one of these will know just how heavy they are. The turntable needs a few finishing touches but is impressively smooth and with a Lenz 1014 decoder driving it can be made to move so slowly you have to look quite carefully to see it is moving at all. Not that I want to go quite that slowly but it should mean there is no problem lining it up. It can be inched into position.

 

 

The track coming directly towards the camera is the team track. The switch part way along it connects a kick-back spur. It looks tight but in fact there is room for an "S" curve to take the spur to the right of the pillar with the curves no sharper than 24 inches. The bottom part of the pillar will be disguised as a warehouse.

 

As you can see there is quite a lot of plain track to hand-lay to complete the station, mostly code 83 spiked to balsa ties with one or two spurs laid in code 70 (for economy - just like a real railroad - well, I was given some code 70.) I'm going to be busy for the next month or two.

 

Chaz

Edited October 15, 2017 by chaz