Cwm Bach - A South Wales Branch Line

[81A Oldoak]

Coming along nicely Chris.

You say you're laying the track?  Did you decide to fix it straight down onto the baseboard then?

That is my preferred way as I don't think you gain any noise reduction by adding cork/foam etc. under the track.  However I was going to use small bar magnets for uncoupling my Lincs system, the ones MSE supply for Sprat & Winkle which are 41mm long & 4mm thick.  Not sure whether I should go back to the button type or work out a way to lay the 41mm along the rail length under sleepers which as there isn't any cork I'd have to hack at the board. 

 

I think I'll order a trial S&W pack and get some button RE magnets to test.  Thinking about it as the electrical ones work the Lincs ok and have a button size core of approximately 8mm the RE magnets should work ok.

Anyone got any info on which work better BUTTON or FLAT BAR magnets.

 

Regards

Barnaby,

I decided to lay the track directly on the board. On a small layout where speeds are low noise isn't really an issue. 

 

As far as uncoupling magnets are concerned, I have some thin small circular types that fit between sleepers so I reckon I can lay a line of them. We shall see. 

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[hayfield]

Chris

 

I have used the C&L/Exactoscale 3 mm closed cell foam on my 0-16.5 layout, also used Copydex for both fixing the foam to base board, track to foam and ballasting. Sadly still a bit noisy.  But it does raise the track bed up. C&L currently stocking 5 mm thick closed cell foam which may work better

 

I will once I have finished the electrics and point motors try and fill the void under the baseboards (which I think is the main culprit) with either polystyrene or thick foam.

 

If noise is a problem I guess this will work with track laid directly on to baseboards

[81A Oldoak]

Chris

 

I have used the C&L/Exactoscale 3 mm closed cell foam on my 0-16.5 layout, also used Copydex for both fixing the foam to base board, track to foam and ballasting. Sadly still a bit noisy.  But it does raise the track bed up. C&L currently stocking 5 mm thick closed cell foam which may work better

 

I will once I have finished the electrics and point motors try and fill the void under the baseboards (which I think is the main culprit) with either polystyrene or thick foam.

 

If noise is a problem I guess this will work with track laid directly on to baseboards

 

I think you are right about trying to dampen the resonant effect of the frames. As I have been testing the tracks with locos there has been very little noise amplified by the baseboards, doubtless because of the low speeds that are consequent upon such a short layout. The DCC sound will also probably mask any other noise.  I also don't need to raise the track bed and indeed, I may well fill the spaces between the tracks to bring the ground level flush with the top of the sleepers as the impression I am trying to create is one of rather low grade ballasting stained with copious amounts of coal dust. I would have used C&L's timber track with its thinner sleepers had the suppy situation between certain. However, I need to finish  laying the track, fit the point and signal motors, wire up and build the sector plate board before moving on to the narcoleptic task of ballasting.

[alant]

Coming along nicely Chris.

You say you're laying the track?  Did you decide to fix it straight down onto the baseboard then?

That is my preferred way as I don't think you gain any noise reduction by adding cork/foam etc. under the track.  However I was going to use small bar magnets for uncoupling my Lincs system, the ones MSE supply for Sprat & Winkle which are 41mm long & 4mm thick.  Not sure whether I should go back to the button type or work out a way to lay the 41mm along the rail length under sleepers which as there isn't any cork I'd have to hack at the board. 

 

I think I'll order a trial S&W pack and get some button RE magnets to test.  Thinking about it as the electrical ones work the Lincs ok and have a button size core of approximately 8mm the RE magnets should work ok.

Anyone got any info on which work better BUTTON or FLAT BAR magnets.

 

Regards

As you know I have been using the Lincs system for a few years and have previously used the bar magnets that Lincs used to supply originally. These fit between the sleepers and although they were more or less flush with the top of the sleepers (Peco track) when ballasted over the slight hump is not really noticeable.

 

Alan.

[Barnaby]

Yes Alan but.........................

 

Are they the same size as the ones I show in my post in here #216 back 1 page.  I know they work but I now want to lay all my track directly flat onto the baseboard base and they may be just a little too high and require grouting out which I was trying to avoid.

 

Thanks

[alant]

I don't currently have any magnets not already placed on my layout so cannot check sizes. As I mentioned though they are more or less the same depth as the sleepers for Peco track. As a guess I think they are probably about 20mm long and 5mm wide by the sleeper thickness height.

 

I fixed my track direct to the baseboard and placed the magnets direct to the baseboard also with a thin layer of ballast/grot over the top.

[hayfield]

I think you are right about trying to dampen the resonant effect of the frames. As I have been testing the tracks with locos there has been very little noise amplified by the baseboards, doubtless because of the low speeds that are consequent upon such a short layout. The DCC sound will also probably mask any other noise.  I also don't need to raise the track bed and indeed, I may well fill the spaces between the tracks to bring the ground level flush with the top of the sleepers as the impression I am trying to create is one of rather low grade ballasting stained with copious amounts of coal dust. I would have used C&L's timber track with its thinner sleepers had the suppy situation between certain. However, I need to finish  laying the track, fit the point and signal motors, wire up and build the sector plate board before moving on to the narcoleptic task of ballasting.

 

 

They have now got the ply sleepers timbers sorted out and I have some thinner ones. It was the plastic timbers I was waiting for (wanted to try copperclad, plastic and ply sleepers). I was a bit disappointed in the lack of sound proofing from the closed cell foam, but the 5 mm may be better. I bought a year ago some really naff ballast, just the job for narrow gauge. Could be good for yard infill once the bigger bits are removed.

 

Enjoying your thread and looking forward to seeing the progress of your layout

[81A Oldoak]

I laid the last point on Cwm Bach today and have just the colliery exchange siding - 1 length of C&L track - and the industrial loco shed siding to lay. Is there a law or some maxim that states that the planned task will always take at least three times longer than expected? Anyway, wiring will start this week provided I can keep my hands off the Lincs couplings that arrived from Richard Syms today. 

[Barnaby]

Good God Chris I'm gasping trying to get my layout to a similar state seeing we started from a blank baseboard together.  I just don't have the time available what with decorating, gardening, car maintenance, Grandkids, TV [MAF 370, government & Pistorius issues] I'll have to only allow myself to watch SKY NEWS the Papers roundup late at night.
Then I get side-lined like with the Lima 4F project.
Tomorrow I must lay some track, tomorrow I must lay some track, tomorrow I WILL lay some track ...................................................
 
Regards
 
EDIT Question:  Chris do you lay down your track first then drill and add power droppers for the track or solder the droppers to the track first.
I intend to follow this procedure.  I'll probably be using copydex to hold both the track and ballast down

0a/  dry lay track and mark dropper hole positions

0b/  drill dropper holes 
1/  solder on droppers
2/  lay down track into adhesive

3/  add bus bar under board for dcc operation
4/  use "snakes" [R/C aircraft control rotational to longitudinal mechanisms] for point control. Probably manual but could be servo controlled as I have a fair bit of my R/C aircraft stuff about.
5/  paint the track like NSE Daz  of Shaftsbury fame.  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46840-shaftesbury-o-gauge-nse-venture/page-6
6/  add the uncoupling magnets
7/  lay ballast
 
Easy to say "lay track" but that's 7 + 2 steps to do.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Barnaby

[81A Oldoak]

Good God Chris I'm gasping trying to get my layout to a similar state seeing we started from a blank baseboard together.  I just don't have the time available what with decorating, gardening, car maintenance, Grandkids, TV [MAF 370, government & Pistorius issues] I'll have to only allow myself to watch SKY NEWS the Papers roundup late at night.

Then I get side-lined like with the Lima 4F project.

Tomorrow I must lay some track, tomorrow I must lay some track, tomorrow I WILL lay some track ...................................................

 

Regards

 

EDIT Question:  Chris do you lay down your track first then drill and add power droppers for the track or solder the droppers to the track first.

I intend to follow this procedure.  I'll probably be using copydex to hold both the track and ballast down

1/  lay down track

2/  drill holes and solder on droppers

3/  add bus bar under board for dcc operation

4/  use "snakes" [R/C aircraft control rotational to longitudinal mechanisms] for point control. Probably manual but could be servo controlled as I have a fair bit of my R/C aircraft stuff about.

5/  paint the track like NSE Daz  of Shaftsbury fame.

6/  add the uncoupling magnets

7/  lay ballast

 

Easy to say "lay track" but that's 7 steps to do.

Barnaby,

I solder the power feed wires to the underside of the rails and drill holes through the board before I lay the track. At the moment, the underside of the boards has a lot of loose feeder wires and also the wires that powers the common crossings on the points hanging loose. The next step will be to install the main bus-bars and solder the track feeds. The Tortoise point motors will go in after that. When I am happy with the wiring and point control, I will probably spray paint the track and adjacent board with a very dark grey, probably Precision Dirty Black, through an airbrush. I've never been convinced with track colour brown. Then the ballast will go on followed by further colouring and weathering. 

 

I don't work on the layout everyday and tend to work in short bursts. Like you, there is a house and garden to maintain, but our grandson lives in the USA so we are rationed to Facetime at the weekend. Cars I leave to the professionals. Then there is Ixion work, church, charity work (I am a trustee of two military charities) and I still work a couple of days at reinsurance in The City.

[Barnaby]

 See it's me I'm too slow by comparison LOL

 

Ok I need to add these steps to my original post then:

0a/  dry lay track and mark dropper hole positions

0b/  drill dropper holes

1/    solder on droppers

2/    lay track into adhesive

Edited April 9, 2014 by Barnaby

[81A Oldoak]

The electrical wiring of Cwm Bach is progressing. This is the centre board that carries the divergences to the colliery exchange line and the run-round loop. The wiring is very simple: red and black for the DCC track power feeds, yellow and brown for powering the Tortoise point motors and blue for switching the track power feeds to the common crossings on the points. The pointmotors are wired in pairs where they are linked in crossovers. The control panel will be small and is shown embedded into the embankment and covered by a piece of removable scenery. The panel will carry nine switches, five for the points and four for the signals and an operating gate on the colliery branch. There will be space for a few more switches if required. Test power leads are temporarily attached and dangling at the moment and I will install the swirches later this week.

[81A Oldoak]

Looking good Chris.  What are you using to connect between the boards?  I have used commercial grade 'D' type connectors and have found them to be reliable. I also fitted plastic backshells, which have integral cable clamps, so that eliminates strain on the solder joints on the connector.  Here is a 9 pin one fitted to a removable signal drive module (red arrow).

 

S3700251 - Copy.JPG

 

It has a servo system that a bought from a trader about 10 years ago and I guess is no longer available.  The signal module detaches from the baseboard and is removed from below.  The assembly has three dowel legs (green arows), so that the signal can be set up on the bench away from the layout.  The article in MRJ 230 is food for though on a modern servo system.  I also have one signal driven by a pendulum system with an acutating solenoid, which also gives a realistic bounce. Again, it is in a removable module.

Very helpful Paul. I use the same type of connector for crossing board joints and have them to be robust and reliable, especially when they are fitted with the covers. The signal drive is very interesting. I intend to use the new Peco servo system, but I like your idea of a completely dismountable unit that includes the signal and drive. The short dowel legs are a clever idea that falls into the "Why didn't I think of that?" category. I may well copy you.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Chris,

 

Great progress and nice work.

 

Glad that I got chance to catch up with the Thread again.

 

I am experimenting with Minx Microdrives

 

http://minxmicrodrives.com/signal-operation/

 

ATB

 

CME

Edited April 22, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[81A Oldoak]

All my signal posts are soldered to a brass base plate (10 thou), which takes the post and the ladder.  A clearance hole for the operating wire is pre-drilled along with four holes in the corners. Then solder the signal and ladder to the plate prior to painting. Position the unpainted assembly onto the layout, allowing for the correct loading gauge clearances and mark the position on the baseboard.  Then draw another set of lines with say 5 to 8 mm clearance all around.  This is the cutting line for the jig saw.  The piece of baseboard so removed is then glued to the servo mounting assembly in the photo. That way, the whole assembly can be offered up from underneath and is a neat fit. The width of the jigsaw blade will act as cleance.  The four holes in the brass base plate are for pinning the signal to the assembly.  I used some '00' - 3/16" screws, but I doubt that you can buy these now!!  When covered with ballast or scenic material, nobody will see the base plate.  Sorry there are no photos to help, but I never had a digital camera when I built my signals.

 

You can use double sided tape to fix the signal assembly to a piece of wood or thick card and it is then easier to hold for painting.  I spray painted mine, being lattice / rail posts; Halfords grey acrylic primer and an enamel white top coat with an air-brush.

Paul,

You can see my signals at post #118 on this forum. I use double-sided copper-clad paxolin board for the bases of my signals as it makes it easier to solder the brackets on which the operating cranks are mounted. However, I may remove the cranks and brackets and drive the operating rod directly from the servo as you have done. I need to build a new signal with a shorter length goods arm so may use that to experiment.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[81A Oldoak]

This is something of a non sequiter, but while searching for something on Google earlier today I found a copy of letter written by me that was published in MRJ 178 in 2007. Here is the text, which readrs may find interesting.

 

“A promise unfulfilled”

You are most certainly not alone (Editorial MRJ 177) in finding rakes of unimproved RTR rolling stock hauled by so-called factory-weathered locomotives a bore and once again you have found a resonant nail and hit squarely on the head. I have been esperiencing a growing feeling of ennui at such spetacles at exhibitions and even, dare I say it, on my own 4mm scale layout.

 

My Abersoch layout is based on the Cambrian Coast line in the 1955-65 period and built to the oxymoronic  fine scale 00 standard with scratchbuilt points, buildings and scenery, so I feel “ I have kept the promise”. A few weeks ago I ordered the new Bachmann Ivatt 2MT as it represented one of the engines shedded at Machynlleth. The locomotive duly arrived. The lined green livery was immaculate, the level of detail superb and the running good after lubrication and running-in. And yet I was disappointed because it all seemed too easy.

 

Fortunately, a few years ago I discovered an antidote to this condition. It is called 7mm scale. I love building locomotive kits and it has been gratifying to see how my standards have improved over time. I recently completed the construction of a scrathbuilt signal box for the layout of a South Wales colliery branch that I keep threatening to build. I have also recently acquired a Unimat 4 lathe as I have a hankering to build a 7mm scale locomotive from scratch. All of these stirrings have arisen from growing dissatisfaction with what the IT types would call turn-key 4mm scale modelling. All that is needed now is to tear up the 4mm scale layout and use the space for that 7mm scale branch line. It is time to gird up the loins, stiffen the sinews and summon up the blood.

 

Yours etc,

 

Seven years later it is gratifying to report that the 4mm scale layout, well half of it, has gone and that the South Wales line in the form of Cwm Bach is actually under construction. And then there came Ixion. Proof indeed as Guinness and Heinz have said in the past that good things do come to those who wait.

[N15class]

This is something of a non sequiter, but while searching for something on Google earlier today I found a copy of letter written by me that was published in MRJ 178 in 2007. Here is the text, which readrs may find interesting.

 

“A promise unfulfilled”

You are most certainly not alone (Editorial MRJ 177) in finding rakes of unimproved RTR rolling stock hauled by so-called factory-weathered locomotives a bore and once again you have found a resonant nail and hit squarely on the head. I have been esperiencing a growing feeling of ennui at such spetacles at exhibitions and even, dare I say it, on my own 4mm scale layout.

 

My Abersoch layout is based on the Cambrian Coast line in the 1955-65 period and built to the oxymoronic  fine scale 00 standard with scratchbuilt points, buildings and scenery, so I feel “ I have kept the promise”. A few weeks ago I ordered the new Bachmann Ivatt 2MT as it represented one of the engines shedded at Machynlleth. The locomotive duly arrived. The lined green livery was immaculate, the level of detail superb and the running good after lubrication and running-in. And yet I was disappointed because it all seemed too easy.

 

Fortunately, a few years ago I discovered an antidote to this condition. It is called 7mm scale. I love building locomotive kits and it has been gratifying to see how my standards have improved over time. I recently completed the construction of a scrathbuilt signal box for the layout of a South Wales colliery branch that I keep threatening to build. I have also recently acquired a Unimat 4 lathe as I have a hankering to build a 7mm scale locomotive from scratch. All of these stirrings have arisen from growing dissatisfaction with what the IT types would call turn-key 4mm scale modelling. All that is needed now is to tear up the 4mm scale layout and use the space for that 7mm scale branch line. It is time to gird up the loins, stiffen the sinews and summon up the blood.

 

Yours etc,

 

Seven years later it is gratifying to report that the 4mm scale layout, well half of it, has gone and that the South Wales line in the form of Cwm Bach is actually under construction. And then there came Ixion. Proof indeed as Guinness and Heinz have said in the past that good things do come to those who wait.

I have always felt that there has never been enough modelling in "model railways" I even in 4mm went completely away from RTR. In the 70's 80's and 90's there was never much for the LSWR modeller. I found the call of 7mm to great. Well it was either that or going back to flying crashing model planes. Now I am in Brazil I have to do even more of the basics even when building a kit. Non of this quick phone call business and 3 days later turning up. The wheels I ordered a while ago are at the end of thier 5th week in Sao Paulo, 20 emails later they are at least through customs.

 

Edit: bad spelling

Edited April 22, 2014 by N15class

[keefr2]

I'm really enjoying following your layout build Chris, but have to say I'm somewhat confused by your 'A promise unfulfilled' post. You appear to have been so dissatisfied with your 4mm layout due to the increasing standard of RTR models, that you went 7mm scale to make it 'less easy' because you would have to do more actual modelling, & then tore up your 4mm layout. But then you finish with "And then there came Ixion. Proof indeed as Guinness and Heinz have said in the past that good things do come to those who wait." Surely however, with the now increasing availabilty of high standard RTR 7mm models, you will eventually have come full circle and be back with the dissatisfaction of it being 'too easy'?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Keith

 

edit: spelling

Edited April 22, 2014 by keefr2

[N15class]

I read it to mean that there was no modelling in taking locos etc out of a box.

 

Maybe I am wrong but I am sure Chris will let us know.

[81A Oldoak]

I read it to mean that there was no modelling in taking locos etc out of a box.

 

Maybe I am wrong but I am sure Chris will let us know.

Nail, head. And ready-to-plant buildings take it a step further. Basically, I like to make, modify and improve things. The Ixion locos were designed to provide a small, easy and inexpensive entry to 0 gauge and I have yet to see one running on a layout straight out of the box. However, if the high quality ready-to-use models now available in whatever scale attract new entrants to our great hobby then that is a good result. 

[Barnaby]

I agree totally with that statement Chris. mind you I think you are sitting on the fence while being on both sides of it too  

I find the RTR kit allows me to get something ready sooner than if I had to build it all, I'm notoriously long winded in my build progress. 

I intend to have a working hoist but initially It will be static, then when I have my layout running I can re-visit various subjects to motorise them.  I probably will have need of a tippler and or conveyor chute systems too.  I'm hoping that I will be able to mechanise these off board and add them when proven while still allowing me to PLAY TRAINS.  I also intend to have a large goods shed/warehouse which will allow HAND OF GOD access to remove or add loads so again providing some load movement.

 

Regards

[keefr2]

mind you I think you are sitting on the fence while being on both sides of it too  

That's what I thought too! No offence intended Chris,just confused me a bit - but then that's easily done! I look forward to seeing more of your excellent modelling as the layout progresses!

 

keith

[81A Oldoak]

That's what I thought too! No offence intended Chris,just confused me a bit - but then that's easily done! I look forward to seeing more of your excellent modelling as the layout progresses!

 

keith

As Barnaby says, I may sit on the fence, I may stand either side of the fence, but I never take offence. Railway modelling is fun and that's all that counts. Now, I must take a photo of something to get this thread back on track.

[Osgood]

And I suppose you expect us to believe this Hudswell Clarke is an RTR product do you?  Come on - what do you take us lot for?  

 

[Barnaby]

Two brilliant statements there one from Chris and one from Osgood

Chris:  As Barnaby says, I may sit on the fence, I may stand either side of the fence, but I never take offence. Railway modelling is fun and that's all that counts. Now, I must take a photo of something to get this thread back on track.

 

Osgood: And I suppose you expect us to believe this Hudswell Clarke is an RTR product do you?  Come on - what do you take us lot for?  

 

HC.jpg

 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Barnaby