Bluebell Railway news

[Rich_F]

On 19/01/2023 at 22:43, thegreenhowards said:

The thumper arrived today.

 

 

As an East Grinstead resident it'll be nice to see a Thumper rolling into the town again...albeit from the wrong direction! 😆 

I used to commute to school in South Croydon & I VIVIDLY remember this unit as 'Brighton Royal Pavilion' chugging through South Croydon coming off the Oxted line in Connex livery. 

 

Also good to see Bluebell adapting & buying/using Southern diesel traction. Hopefully this spurs on some new visitors to the line. I'll definitely be walking from my apartment to the railway when the Thumper/33/73 are all active! 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Weeny Works

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I can't help thinking that all these rolling stock movements by road must be expensive, and I wonder about the value of the "visiting engines" practice common in the heritage railway industry and when are so many alternative uses for their limited preservation funds.  I'm not quetioning any particular trip, as some definitely are either necessary or generate additional revenue, but are they really all cost-justified?

I agree and have long suspected the railway press' enthusiasm for Galas based on the number of visiting locos, is probably out of proportion to the number of visitors (and what they spend at the railway concerned).  Some railways actually admit that their Galas are more about putting on an event for their volunteers to rally around, rather than for income.

 

If the Bluebell is focusing on infrastructure spending, good for them; there are a couple of high profile lines who have quite publicly dropped the ball on that over the last few years.

[SR71]

I believe there is some friction between factions at the Bluebell which prevented action being taken that it was perceived would have mitigated the loss. I've not been told this but reading between the lines of what I've been told and what I've seen published.

 

If the bluebell are in trouble then I would guess a fair few other lines are in much worse shape so I think we can expect worse news as we head into the main season. Last year I dropped into Princess Risborough & Chinnor and they had a 57xx sat in the platform from the morning train, in steam, but they weren't running it again that day. Did it burn less sat there all afternoon than it would earn doing another run? I don't know but I was questioning if it should have been steamed at all that day. This kind of thing could be a tipping point for some lines.

 

I think more will go the somewhat infuriating route of the WHR/FR and ticket pre booked excursions rather than a scheduled time table. If it doesn't get enough patrons in advance it doesn't run. The WHR/FR have said they will look at getting some kind of timetable in the public domain for those of us who like to hop on and off but they won't guarantee the trains will run if no one books them.

 

The work at Horsted was going well on platform 5 when I was last there but the canopies in platforms 1-4, that I still thing of as new, are looking tatty and I guess it's future funding for those sorts of things that will suffer.

[phil-b259]

18 minutes ago, SR71 said:

The work at Horsted was going well on platform 5 when I was last there but the canopies in platforms 1-4, that I still thing of as new, are looking tatty and I guess it's future funding for those sorts of things that will suffer.

 

Horsted Keynes is so big that the money (not to mention the logistics) of doing it all in one go simply isn't practical.

 

The project has therefore been broken down into several stages - repairing the station building and the canopy on platform 5 only being the first stage of the works.

 

Providing the funding continues to come in then work will move to the next island platform in due course.

[phil-b259]

25 minutes ago, SR71 said:

I believe there is some friction between factions at the Bluebell which prevented action being taken that it was perceived would have mitigated the loss. I've not been told this but reading between the lines of what I've been told and what I've seen published.

 

When your energy bill goes from £300 per day to more than £1000 per day (even with efforts to constrain energy use) and the cost of coal has doubled its not exactly a surprise the Bluebells finances aren't looking great.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/issue-42-1.pdf

 

Other railways will be having similar problems too...

Edited February 13, 2023 by phil-b259

[Nick C]

15 minutes ago, SR71 said:

The work at Horsted was going well on platform 5 when I was last there but the canopies in platforms 1-4, that I still thing of as new, are looking tatty and I guess it's future funding for those sorts of things that will suffer.

A lot of those kind of projects are funded separately though, through dedicated fundraising and ring-fenced funds. It's the general day-to-day operations that many lines are strugglng with, due to the increases in costs and drop in revenue...

 

Steaming of locos can be a challenge - from what I understand it costs quite a bit just to heat it up in the first place, so it's important to get the best use of it you can once in steam - don't light up just for one day if you can avoid it. At least one line is switching midweek running from Tues-Weds-Thurs to Weds-Thurs-Fri for this reason - then using the same loco at the weekend so it's in steam for 5 days straight - and for some of those weekends the second loco is a Diesel, so only one steam required all week.

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

A lot of those kind of projects are funded separately though, through dedicated fundraising and ring-fenced funds.

 

 

As seen here

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/news/horsted-keynes-station-appeal/

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/trust/make-a-donation/

 

[SR71]

20 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

When your energy bill goes from £300 per day to more than £1000 per day (even with efforts to constrain energy use) and the cost of coal has doubled its not exactly a surprise the Bluebells finances aren't looking great.

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/issue-42-1.pdf

 

Other railways will be having similar problems too...

 

Agreed Phil. Note I was deliberately careful of my wording in my original post. From my position I don't think you could mitigate it but it would be an understandable cause of friction.

 

28 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Providing the funding continues to come in then work will move to the next island platform in due course.

 

Provided being the key part there. Material costs have gone through the roof so it is certain any planned work in future stages will now cost a lot more than when budgeted.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

If the Bluebell is focusing on infrastructure spending, good for them; there are a couple of high profile lines who have quite publicly dropped the ball on that over the last few years.

Infrastructure spending is essential to the survival of a line.  Neglect it for any length of time and you soon have safety problems, possibly also accidents which would make the regulators quite rightly shut you down.    It's unglamorous work, and the railways are lucky to have volunteers willing to put in so much time and effort on things like clearing vegetation from the line, tasks that aren't even noticed by the average visitor, and some jobs need to be tackled by contractors with appropriate equipment.

 

On the other hand, one loco more or less isn't really what kills a line, as long as there is at least one serviceable to meet your advertised service, though in practice that often means a couple of spares that you can substitute as vintage motive power is vulnerable to failure and as spare parts are not readily available they usually have to be specially made, which is a slow process as well as an expensive one.

 

45 minutes ago, SR71 said:

 Last year I dropped into Princess Risborough & Chinnor and they had a 57xx sat in the platform from the morning train, in steam, but they weren't running it again that day. Did it burn less sat there all afternoon than it would earn doing another run? I don't know but I was questioning if it should have been steamed at all that day.

 

I don't know about the particular case of course, but part of the restoration process/testing may require an engine to be steamed. 

 

And if you've got doubts about the reliability of the loco that you are running, you need a standby.  Unless there's a serviceable diesel, it will need to be in light steam in case it's needed in a hurry (and the punters are often disappointed if you have to substitute a diesel).  If it's already done a trip, keeping it in light steam for a couple of hours longer won't use all that much more coal

[G-BOAF]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Not only that, but the railway reporting a loss does not sound good.

 

I guess its a similar story at the Severn Valley, where they have announced there will be no more loco overhauls once the current ones finish through the works - I suspect the story is similar across all the heritage railways - in terms of cost cutting.

 

Clearly though, someone is looking to the future as there are a lot of track repairs going on.

 

On the Bluebell there has been a big relaying scheme at Vaux end, which has been an issue for a number of years.

 

Its good to read that some of the new volunteers for the Thumper are volunteering for the first time.

 

I'm guessing many heritage railways are in a similar financial situation. Hopefully there are enough reserves to weather the loss (and that capital assets are not disposed off to bridge transient holes).

 

Out of interest what will the SVR do in a few years when things have (hopefully) recovered but they have no locos entering service to replace those going out of service. This seems like an unsustainable strategy...

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

I'm guessing many heritage railways are in a similar financial situation. Hopefully there are enough reserves to weather the loss (and that capital assets are not disposed off to bridge transient holes).

 

Out of interest what will the SVR do in a few years when things have (hopefully) recovered but they have no locos entering service to replace those going out of service. This seems like an unsustainable strategy...

 

I suspect there will be more reliance on their diesel fleet to compensate

[Neal Ball]

8 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

I'm guessing many heritage railways are in a similar financial situation. Hopefully there are enough reserves to weather the loss (and that capital assets are not disposed off to bridge transient holes).

 

Out of interest what will the SVR do in a few years when things have (hopefully) recovered but they have no locos entering service to replace those going out of service. This seems like an unsustainable strategy...

 

If the pause in locos being overhauled is only for 1 year, they will probably be ok - although if they have a major failure, that would affect everything.

 

This story is in the current issue of Steam Railway and if you look at what's in their workshop, there are (I think) 3 locos coming into traffic in the next couple of years.

 

Let's hope the Bluebell weathers the storm and everyone rallies round this year.

[Michael Hodgson]

I think of the Bluebell as being one of the more successful heritage lines, in that seems to have attracted funding in the past for projects like the Kingscote signalling and the preparatory worked needed for the extension to E Grinstead.  I don't know whether that is from better management, from greater passenger revenue, filming income or greater generosity from wealthy individuals in that part of the country. 

 

It seems to have been a leader in recognising the need for adequate covered storage of restored rolling stock and a better working environment for volunteers engaged in restoration, and in not littering the lineside with too many rusting blots on the landscape, as eyesores can tend to discourage the average punter (and more particularly his wife) taking the kids out for a ride behind a steam engine. 

 

As to the deferral of locos, it takes a long time to restore big steam anyway, and a year or two delay is not long when compared to the work in rescuing the locos from Barry.  Building working replicas seems to be faster!

 

It is very disappointing if the line is indeed suffering more difficulty than others from the effects of lockdowns, or from the type of factional squabbling and petty politics that tends to beset voluntary organisations.  I hope the cutbacks are no more than a temporary setback, whereby the company is having to be financially prudent and moderate its expenditure to keep within its means.  I fully expect some smaller preserved standard gauge lines to go to the wall, but I trust that all of the biggest and best-known ones will recover in time - Bluebell, GCR, KWVR, NYMR, SVR, no aspersions intended on numerous other excellent lines.

[Neal Ball]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I think of the Bluebell as being one of the more successful heritage lines, in that seems to have attracted funding in the past for projects like the Kingscote signalling and the preparatory worked needed for the extension to E Grinstead.  I don't know whether that is from better management, from greater passenger revenue, filming income or greater generosity from wealthy individuals in that part of the country. 

 

It seems to have been a leader in recognising the need for adequate covered storage of restored rolling stock and a better working environment for volunteers engaged in restoration, and in not littering the lineside with too many rusting blots on the landscape, as eyesores can tend to discourage the average punter (and more particularly his wife) taking the kids out for a ride behind a steam engine. 

 

As to the deferral of locos, it takes a long time to restore big steam anyway, and a year or two delay is not long when compared to the work in rescuing the locos from Barry.  Building working replicas seems to be faster!

 

It is very disappointing if the line is indeed suffering more difficulty than others from the effects of lockdowns, or from the type of factional squabbling and petty politics that tends to beset voluntary organisations.  I hope the cutbacks are no more than a temporary setback, whereby the company is having to be financially prudent and moderate its expenditure to keep within its means.  I fully expect some smaller preserved standard gauge lines to go to the wall, but I trust that all of the biggest and best-known ones will recover in time - Bluebell, GCR, KWVR, NYMR, SVR, no aspersions intended on numerous other excellent lines.

I think you are spot on.

 

As well as a member I am a shareholder of the extension to EG. Obviously that was quite a feat to get there and if the railway can do that, they can weather this particular storm.

 

It was very interesting being back in the UK last Summer, where we traveled from one heritage railway to the next. Out of all of the railways we visited the one I was not impressed with was the Severn Valley. It appeared neglected and unfriendly. By comparison we were staying at Bewdley, which was a very friendly and welcoming town.

 

Hopefully all railways survive the current crisis, only time will tell.

[papagolfjuliet]

21 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Reading Bluebell Times and I must say I'm a little concerned about the turnover of PLC leadership. The 'new' (appointed 18 months ago) director, Geoff Mee, has resigned.

 

AIUI he left because his proposal to weather the economic storm by selling the stock in the new OP4 vintage carriage storage shed - built with funds raised specifically for the purpose of providing secure undercover storage for vintage carriages - went down with the membership about as well you'd expect.

 

You'll find him outlining his plan to - essentially - shaft everybody who donated to OP4 on Page 3 here: https://www.bluebell-railway.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/issue-41.pdf

Edited February 14, 2023 by papagolfjuliet

[thegreenhowards]

I donated to OP4 and personally I think it would be quite sensible to sell some of the coaches and locos which we are never going to have the time or resources to restore in order to fund the restoration of some of the others. I would also like to be able to display some of the coaches awaiting restoration if that was ever possible. I certainly don’t think they should be sold to bridge a revenue shortfall / cost overrun though if that was the intent.

 

Andy

[willjam39]

I dont know what was/is in OP4 but the idea of selling bits that aren't going to get to the top of the queue to those who would restore and use them seems sound. A good example is the USA tank which was very unlikely to be restored by the railway but has now left to be looked after by someone who will start the job. 

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I donated to OP4 and personally I think it would be quite sensible to sell some of the coaches and locos which we are never going to have the time or resources to restore in order to fund the restoration of some of the others. I would also like to be able to display some of the coaches awaiting restoration if that was ever possible. I certainly don’t think they should be sold to bridge a revenue shortfall / cost overrun though if that was the intent.

 

Andy

 

1 hour ago, willjam39 said:

I dont know what was/is in OP4 but the idea of selling bits that aren't going to get to the top of the queue to those who would restore and use them seems sound. A good example is the USA tank which was very unlikely to be restored by the railway but has now left to be looked after by someone who will start the job. 

 

Whilst I agree, the unrestored items are not likely to provide huge funds to fill the shortfall.

 

Leaving Covid aside, the issues seemed to start when Flying Scotsman was booked to appear and the income and expenditure budget was set accordingly. When it was cancelled the railway had a huge void and it seems hasn't been able to get out of it.

 

The Bluebell has always maintained standards that are higher than other railways of a similar standing and long may that continue. The standard of restoration is exemplary.

 

This current issue might last a couple of years until we all find a "new normal" (another one!).

 

Personally I dont like the events such as "Steamlights" or the Ice Rink - but at the moment if that gets sufficient extra income then that is all for the greater good.

 

Good luck Bluebell.

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, willjam39 said:

I dont know what was/is in OP4 but the idea of selling bits that aren't going to get to the top of the queue to those who would restore and use them seems sound. A good example is the USA tank which was very unlikely to be restored by the railway but has now left to be looked after by someone who will start the job. 

 

A significant factor with the USA tank was its usefulness' to the Bluebell. Like most shunting engines it rode poorly at higher speeds and had limited coal + water capacity. Although the terriers and P tanks also suffer from this because they were built as 'main line' engines they are able to travel faster and are kinder to the track.

 

I would be opposed to selling the family silver as it were - the breath of the Bluebells ex SR coach collection is a huge asset to the railway. Instead I would suggest deals like the one the Bluebell did with the Mid Hants are a better solution. In that case a Bulleid open 3rd coach dating from 1947 was loaned to the Mid Hants for 25 years and they in return committed to restore it so as to augment their collection of operational Bulleid stock

Edited February 14, 2023 by phil-b259

[papagolfjuliet]

Last time I looked, and this is going back a while, the stock stored in OP4 was as follows:

       - No.33, SER/Pullman kitchen car "Constance"
       - No.60, LBSCR Directors' Saloon
       - No.320, LSWR Lavatory 3rd
       - No.494, LSWR Corridor 3rd
       - No.676, LBSC 4-wheel Brake 3rd
       - No.1050, SER/SR Composite
       - No.1061, SECR Birdcage Brake 2nd/3rd
       - No.2515, SR Bulleid Saloon Brake 3rd
       - No.2773, LSWR Box Van
       - No.4279, SR Bulleid Saloon Brake 3rd
       - No.5498, LSWR Ventilated Luggage Van
       - No.6575, SR Maunsell Corridor Brake Composite

 

[Neal Ball]

47 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

A significant factor with the USA tank was its usefulness' to the Bluebell. Like most shunting engines it rode poorly at higher speeds and had limited coal + water capacity. Although the terriers and P tanks also suffer from this because they were built as 'main line' engines they are able to travel faster and are kinder to the track.

 

I would be opposed to selling the family silver as it were - the breath of the Bluebells ex SR coach collection is a huge asset to the railway. Instead I would suggest deals like the one the Bluebell did with the Mid Hants are a better solution. In that case a Bulleid open 3rd coach dating from 1947 was loaned to the Mid Hants for 25 years and they in return committed to restore it so as to augment their collection of operational Bulleid stock

 

But of course there are some items that will simply never be restored. It would be better to move them on and get some funds.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Neal Ball
typo

[Hal Nail]

18 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

It would be better to move them on and get some funds.

I'm not convinced there is a market for unwanted stuff at the moment. Certainly not enough to bail out every struggling railway.

[papagolfjuliet]

Quite so, and while I imagine that there would be queues around the block for 80100 I doubt whether the same is true of most of the unrestored carriages and indeed six of the seven vehicles on the Bluebell's 2022 carriage disposal list recently went for scrap.

[SR71]

I hope they don't start selling. It's hard enough finding places for all the red/blue boxes. I'm not sure how I'm going to sneak a whole coach into the spare room!

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I'm not convinced there is a market for unwanted stuff at the moment. Certainly not enough to bail out every struggling railway.

There's plenty of people in the UK who are largely unaffected by the current economic crisis (remember the richest people in the world got richer during the pandemic).  Whether any of those people with money burning a hole in their pockets will wish to buy any rolling stock restoration projects, is another question.  Whether anyone who purchases any of the items being disposed of actually has both the funds and access to the necessary skills to restore them, is another question altogether.  There are any number of locos and coaches which have changed hands multiple times in preservation but are no nearer operating condition than they were 30 years ago.