Bluebell Railway news

[Bucoops]

I fear for the 309 that is currently back up for sale. Very historically important but not much love for it in preservation circles it would seem :(

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, papagolfjuliet said:

       - No.60, LBSCR Directors' Saloon
       - No.320, LSWR Lavatory 3rd
       - No.1050, SER/SR Composite
       - No.1061, SECR Birdcage Brake 2nd/3rd
       - No.4279, SR Bulleid Saloon Brake 3rd      
       - No.6575, SR Maunsell Corridor Brake Composite

 

My personal list of "must keeps" from those is as above - don't ask me to make a business case though.

[papagolfjuliet]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

 There are any number of locos and coaches which have changed hands multiple times in preservation but are no nearer operating condition than they were 30 years ago.

 

Or, in the case of a certain Castle, further away.

[papagolfjuliet]

Against stiff opposition this is probably my favourite unrestored Bluebell carriage, not least because not counting the two 04 shunters it is the only surviving original Derwent Valley Light Railway vehicle: https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/1601.html

[Oldddudders]

Geoffrey Harrison-Mee is a wheeler-dealer. As he put it to me in the late '80s, "Geoffrey does not give, Geoffrey only trades." I can't remember what it was that I at NSE South Central wanted from NSE South Eastern, but I don't think we got a deal together. He left BR to join Booz Allen & Hamilton circa 1995, but reappeared post-Privatisation running Connex. I had no idea he was at the Bluebell.

 

I note Gordon Dudman, sometime SM at East Grinstead, is also with the Bluebell. He worked for Geoff on TOC Privatisation. 

[Michael Hodgson]

16 hours ago, Northmoor said:

There's plenty of people in the UK who are largely unaffected by the current economic crisis (remember the richest people in the world got richer during the pandemic).  Whether any of those people with money burning a hole in their pockets will wish to buy any rolling stock restoration projects, is another question.  Whether anyone who purchases any of the items being disposed of actually has both the funds and access to the necessary skills to restore them, is another question altogether.  There are any number of locos and coaches which have changed hands multiple times in preservation but are no nearer operating condition than they were 30 years ago.

To coin a phrase, the rich are always with us.

There are as you say always individuals to whom money is not a problem.  Financial downturns are not necessarily bad for these people - only really those of them (typically "nouveaux riches") who over-extend themselves by borrowing too much of other people's money then find themselves stuffed when interest rates rise.  But if you're sitting on a big pile of your own dosh, anything that takes your fancy will be a lot cheaper now than usual, so it's an ideal opportunity to spend money on more of whatever captures your attention, be it a footall club or a steam engine. 

 

And if they buy an asset which they decide to sell after the economy has recovered, they should make a greater profit than doing the same at a different stage in the economic cycle.  That's how come the rich get even richer whilst the rest of us continue to struggle.  Whether or not any particular decrepit unserviceable steam engine is an asset worth the cost of repairs is another matter.

[rogerzilla]

I'd be surprised if Jeremy Hosking makes much, if any, money out of his LSL fleet.  It's probably a money pit, but he can afford it as a hobby.

 

How much do you have to hire out a loco to pay for the next £1m heavy overhaul?  No volunteer labour likely, as it would be done at commercial rates by Riley or similar.

[Chris116]

The normal view is that to make a small fortune owning a working steam engine you needed to start with a large fortune. 

[SR71]

I don't think the new thumper has quite the load capacity the bluebell imagined.

 

 

Track gang on way back from Vaux End this afternoon.

 

Before Airfix man gets back into the cab.

 

 

Fenchurch on 3 coaches shuttling up and down between HK & SP made for a nice trip this afternoon. The railway was pretty full too, I got the last parking space in the regular car park. One engine in steam and a short run made for a different feel to the railway I really enjoyed.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, SR71 said:

One engine in steam and a short run made for a different feel to the railway I really enjoyed.

That's how I knew, and loved, it midweek in the 1970s.

[SOUTHERNUT]

Absolutely brilliant to see that NG’s 73/1 (JB) 73133 / E6040 out shopped in authentic and prototypical BR Blue, with small yellow warning panels, and BR double arrows. It’ll soon be at BBR. Such a great asset, with true Southern Region railway history. Rededicated this week at Eastleigh, complete with name plates and crests. Matches the BBR 4 VEP perfectly. 
 

 

Great to see that the owner has also resisted pressure from certain elements to paint it in a non prototypical British Railways green livery. Painting it green would have been just the same as painting a beautiful bullied pacific in Southern Olive Green… sacrilege.

The wipac headlights and missing head code boxes don’t really detract the overall appearance…just superb to have it at BBR.
 

If nothing else, having the 73/1 at BBR proves to the visiting public that railway history in the South continued beyond the 1960’s. 

 

Well done to NG. . 
 

 

 

[NIK]

On 15/02/2023 at 22:45, Chris116 said:

The normal view is that to make a small fortune owning a working steam engine you needed to start with a large fortune. 

Hi,

 

An air industry quip is 'how do you make a small fortune in the air business? - start with a large fortune and buy an airline'.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, SOUTHERNUT said:

Absolutely brilliant to see that NG’s 73/1 (JB) 73133 / E6040 out shopped in authentic and prototypical BR Blue, with small yellow warning panels, and BR double arrows. It’ll soon be at BBR. Such a great asset, with true Southern Region railway history. Rededicated this week at Eastleigh, complete with name plates and crests. Matches the BBR 4 VEP perfectly. 
 

 

Great to see that the owner has also resisted pressure from certain elements to paint it in a non prototypical British Railways green livery. Painting it green would have been just the same as painting a beautiful bullied pacific in Southern Olive Green… sacrilege.

The wipac headlights and missing head code boxes don’t really detract the overall appearance…just superb to have it at BBR.
 

If nothing else, having the 73/1 at BBR proves to the visiting public that railway history in the South continued beyond the 1960’s. 

 

Well done to NG. . 
 

 

 

Very nice indeed. I take your point about the lamp housings and the missing headcodes but I wonder if a removable dummy headcode panel could be fitted inside the windscreen.

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, SOUTHERNUT said:

Great to see that the owner has also resisted pressure from certain elements to paint it in a non prototypical British Railways green livery. Painting it green would have been just the same as painting a beautiful bullied pacific in Southern Olive Green… sacrilege.

I don't follow this. The JAs appeared and proved the design concept - in green from new. I imagine some early JBs also wore green for a period. As a heritage railway, the Bluebell might well have preferred green, given that those early green locos shared rails with steam in the early '60s.

 

No Bulleid pacific was ever painted olive green in service, so the comparison is invalid. 

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I don't follow this. The JAs appeared and proved the design concept - in green from new. I imagine some early JBs also wore green for a period. As a heritage railway, the Bluebell might well have preferred green, given that those early green locos shared rails with steam in the early '60s.

 

No Bulleid pacific was ever painted olive green in service, so the comparison is invalid. 

The JBs didn't appear until 1965 so I think it would be unlikely that any were painted green from new.

[SOUTHERNUT]

Correct, IIRC, all JBs were out shopped in the livery shown above. My point re the Bulleid was that no one would tolerate a post war built loco, such as a West Country or a Battle of Britain, running in Southern Olive Green because they never did. So why should a diesel be painted in green, when they ran in rail blue from the start. It is amazing how some railway enthusiasts seem to conveniently forget that for three years there were rail blue diesels, electrics, EDs such as the JB, multiple units, together with some blue and grey coaches running around with steam locos, at the end of steam. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjJibOEvJf-AhXbh1wKHQG9D1UQtwJ6BAgiEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dqruu7-k27P0&usg=AOvVaw0clIUZqB1EulX3qX5GvjZ3

 

Railways didn’t end when steam finished. That JB lasted so many years longer in main line use than most steam locos ever did. 

[Chris116]

4 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

An air industry quip is 'how do you make a small fortune in the air business? - start with a large fortune and buy an airline'.

 

Regards

 

Nik

Freddie Laker would agree with that.

[60526]

I'm told that it is electric blue, not BR blue? Would have been nice to see a green 73 but this loco never was green. Looks nice. Can anyone confirm that there is another 3 73's at Eastleigh, all stored I understand. 

[SOUTHERNUT]

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=400

 

looks like JBs were rail blue. Best change the subject now before I get told off. 

[rodent279]

5 hours ago, 60526 said:

I'm told that it is electric blue, not BR blue? Would have been nice to see a green 73 but this loco never was green. Looks nice. Can anyone confirm that there is another 3 73's at Eastleigh, all stored I understand. 

No ED's were ever electric blue. Not in the BR era anyway.

[Michael Hodgson]

23 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very nice indeed. I take your point about the lamp housings and the missing headcodes but I wonder if a removable dummy headcode panel could be fitted inside the windscreen.

The headcode box served an operational  purpose back in the day when it was there.  These days it wouldn't.  A dummy box would result in a very slightly poorer view from the cab so its absence is a marginal improvement in safety.  As a dummy it wouldn't be "the real thing" for historical accuracy amd personally I think it has cleaner lines without one, so I really don't see any point.

[rodent279]

11 hours ago, rodent279 said:

No ED's were ever electric blue. Not in the BR era anyway.

 

I stand corrected-according to the SREMG website:-

 

Quote

The JAs were out-shopped in green with small yellow warning panels although soon the warning panels were removed for a time and a light coloured band applied at solebar level, then the warning panels were later reapplied. As to the shade of green and the light coloured band be warned published accounts vary. The green has been described as Brunswick Green or a lighter shade being either malachite or BR(S) coaching stock green. The light coloured band has been described as grey or light green. Photographic evidence indicates the JAs wore light green with a grey band. The shade of green is likely to be that also carried by the class 71s and one thing is for sure is that the JAs carried the coach roundel rather than the BR emblem. The JBs were initially painted in the pleasant "electric" blue - as also worn by the contemporary AC electrics - with a light grey band at solebar level and small yellow warning panels. Published accounts are inconclusive whether all JBs were out-shopped in electric blue or just the early ones.

 

I have to say, looking at a few photos from quick, non-exhaustive trawl of flickr, none particularly jump out at me as being in the distinctly lighter shade that is electric blue.

[St Enodoc]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The headcode box served an operational  purpose back in the day when it was there.  These days it wouldn't.  A dummy box would result in a very slightly poorer view from the cab so its absence is a marginal improvement in safety.  As a dummy it wouldn't be "the real thing" for historical accuracy amd personally I think it has cleaner lines without one, so I really don't see any point.

Yes, I realise all that but it would look nice from the outside. Historical accuracy is compromised anyway by the lamp clusters and I don't think the reduced sightlines would be of any significance at all on Bluebell - still considerably better than some of our steam locos running in reverse, for example.

 

We try to use authentic headcodes for our steam locos so I think that on the ex-SR diesel and electric fleet (not just E6040) a suitable local headcode would be interesting. I'm not suggesting a working box with rollers, by the way, just some flat boards with selected codes that could be clipped behind the windscreen.

[Oldddudders]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

JAs probably were (1962)

I don't think so. I stopped spotting numbers about 1963, but my Winter 1961/2 ABC shows I saw 4 of the JAs in that era. Blue would have stood out among green Cromptons etc. The only place down South to see the light blue was Euston - from 1965. 

 

JAs and JBs are visually very similar, apparently even to traincrew. I recall circa 1970 a Control colleague being in despair, when crews failed to couple a pair of EDLs at Stew Lane, due to one being a JA, the other a JB!

 

The dark blue era was drab. All the 1967 Bournemouth line stock was delivered in all-over blue, which hardly sold the image the new much-accelerated service provided. VEPs at least had the orange curtains to offset the paint, but it was some years before grey was permitted. I think 7808, used on the Vic-Gatwick services, was the first blue-grey unit I saw - from Croydon Control window. 

[St Enodoc]

Just now, Oldddudders said:

I don't think so. I stopped spotting numbers about 1963, but my Winter 1961/2 ABC shows I saw 4 of the JAs in that era. Blue would have stood out among green Cromptons etc. The only place down South to see the light blue was Euston - from 1965. 

 

JAs and JBs are visually very similar, apparently even to traincrew. I recall circa 1970 a Control colleague being in despair, when crews failed to couple a pair of EDLs at Stew Lane, due to one being a JA, the other a JB!

 

The dark blue era was drab. All the 1967 Bournemouth line stock was delivered in all-over blue, which hardly sold the image the new much-accelerated service provided. VEPs at least had the orange curtains to offset the paint, but it was some years before grey was permitted. I think 7808, used on the Vic-Gatwick services, was the first blue-grey unit I saw - from Croydon Control window. 

Thanks Ian. I just deleted that post as I misread the statement I was replying to.