Bluebell Railway news

[Dunsignalling]

35 minutes ago, 60526 said:

Did I see it right? £800k to restore brake Pullman Car 54? I know that some paid chippies were involved and Covid got in the way, but how could they substantiate spending £800k?

 

It would depend what state it was in to begin with, and what proportion might have been missing or unrestorable...

 

If old high quality timber needs like-for-like replacement, things can get very expensive indeed. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[BlueLightning]

48 minutes ago, 60526 said:

Did I see it right? £800k to restore brake Pullman Car 54? I know that some paid chippies were involved and Covid got in the way, but how could they substantiate spending £800k?

 

Does that incluse the costs of converting it for disabled access though? I don't expect those lifts the Blubell use are cheap.

 

Gary

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, SR71 said:

Flying Scotsman visit on a knife edge again;

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/read-this/flying-scotsman-undergoing-repair-work-4240600

 

Fingers crossed for all involved.

Good grief that is an annoying website.

[60526]

I 've just read the BB website, the restoration cost has come from a ring fenced fund within the Bluebell Railway Trust and a contribution from the Department of Transport towards the wheelchair access. I don't know if anyone saw Fingall when it was first restored, but it was a work of art, I don't know how much of that was original. Others can drop in here, but I know that all the seats and tables have been specially made for car 54, whether by volunteers or contractors I do not know.

I did once travel and have a meal in the 3rd class Pullman Christine, but we walked through the 1st class coach Fingall on the way out and there is a difference in quality.

Edited August 4, 2023 by 60526

[Neal Ball]

On 04/08/2023 at 16:15, 60526 said:

I 've just read the BB website, the restoration cost has come from a ring fenced fund within the Bluebell Railway Trust and a contribution from the Department of Transport towards the wheelchair access. I don't know if anyone saw Fingall when it was first restored, but it was a work of art, I don't know how much of that was original. Others can drop in here, but I know that all the seats and tables have been specially made for car 54, whether by volunteers or contractors I do not know.

I did once travel and have a meal in the 3rd class Pullman Christine, but we walked through the 1st class coach Fingall on the way out and there is a difference in quality.

We’ve done the Pullman service on the Bluebell before and the quality of the carriages is exceptional. Probably the best around, I can easily see that sort of money being spent.

[Neal Ball]

On 04/08/2023 at 13:29, SR71 said:

Flying Scotsman visit on a knife edge again;

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/read-this/flying-scotsman-undergoing-repair-work-4240600

 

Fingers crossed for all involved.

The loco is due to visit the railway on 23rd August….. 

 

Good luck to the FS team who are working on it.

 (I think it’s Riley and son, but not 100% sure)

[60526]

9 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

We’ve done the Pullman service on the Bluebell before and the quality of the carriages is exceptional. Probably the best around, I can easily see that sort of money being spent.

I wonder what the likes of Richard Salmon and Dave Clark (and other volunteers come to think of it) would say if they were given £800k to spend on other unrestored coaches in the collection. Keep the LBSCR saloon out of this conversation.

[Neal Ball]

2 minutes ago, 60526 said:

I wonder what the likes of Richard Salmon and Dave Clark (and other volunteers come to think of it) would say if they were given £800k to spend on other unrestored coaches in the collection. Keep the LBSCR saloon out of this conversation.

I know them both very well, I’ll ask the question!

[97xx]

£75k came from from the Department for Transport’s Heritage and Community Rail Tourism Innovation Competition, principally dedicated to provision of wheelchair access.

 

Surprised to see a figure of £800k - where did this number come from?  I recall reading nearer £520k so far.

[60526]

On 07/08/2023 at 06:33, 97xx said:

Surprised to see a figure of £800k - where did this number come from?  I recall reading nearer £520k so far.

The £800k came from an article on "Bluebell clear-out continues with Churchill and Royal Pullmans" in the September 2023 edition of Trackside magazine. - it goes on, some £300k more than budgeted and completion will come four years later than anticipated. It's a good magazine this, from the start it has tended to highlight the preserved railways more than auctions and swanning off on foreign steam trips. The article quotes Paul Churchman.

[Neal Ball]

2 minutes ago, 60526 said:

The £800k came from an article on "Bluebell clear-out continues with Churchill and Royal Pullmans" in the September 2023 edition of Trackside magazine. - it goes on, some £300k more than budgeted and completion will come four years later than anticipated. It's a good magazine this, from the start it has tended to highlight the preserved railways more than auctions and swanning off on foreign steam trips. The article quotes Paul Churchman.

 

In my mind I was thinking the cost was around £500k but then when you quote Paul, I guess it has some basis.

 

Last time I saw Trackside magazine I thought it was very good.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

It looks like they're selling off things that aren't likely to be restored by the Bluebell any time soon so maybe they're going to groups who might be able to restore them sooner.  So in a practical way it makes sense. You never know, things might be offered on long term loan. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by The Evil Bus Driver

[97xx]

I do wonder if we are getting "£300k over budget" incorrectly added to the £500k recently reported - i.e. perhaps the budget (if there ever was one) was £2-300k and it's gone way over, but I would doubt £800k is really likely.

 

However, just guessing!

[60526]

8 hours ago, 97xx said:

I do wonder if we are getting "£300k over budget" incorrectly added to the £500k recently reported - i.e. perhaps the budget (if there ever was one) was £2-300k and it's gone way over, but I would doubt £800k is really likely.

The words came from the Chairman, so I would doubt it. Just take a look at the website description - https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/car54.html

The body has been off the chassis, so chassis repairs, new headstock, hot riveting, replacement ends, a complete new set of tables and chairs has been made for it, the internal panelling has either been replaced or restored etc etc, it all adds up.

[97xx]

Wires are slightly crossed it seems - Car No. 54 is approaching £600k in total.

[Bucoops]

I can certainly believe it is measured in the £100k range - significant amounts done by contractors and a huge amount done. Done very, very well I might add. 

[Oldddudders]

18 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Done very, very well I might add. 

My limited experience of the Bluebell in recent years certainly bears that out in spades. No doubt some other railways also boast quality restorations to delight the passenger. 

 

At the other end of the scale, to my mind, is a railway in the SW that puts names on locos that did not have them in BR ownership, while offering passengers accommodation either in Mk1s or ex-DMU trailers. Lovely seaside views no doubt balance that for younger families, older enthusiasts maybe less so.....

[Dunsignalling]

18 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

My limited experience of the Bluebell in recent years certainly bears that out in spades. No doubt some other railways also boast quality restorations to delight the passenger. 

 

At the other end of the scale, to my mind, is a railway in the SW that puts names on locos that did not have them in BR ownership, while offering passengers accommodation either in Mk1s or ex-DMU trailers. Lovely seaside views no doubt balance that for younger families, older enthusiasts maybe less so.....

Different target markets, altogether. The Bluebell is a heritage railway founded by enthusiasts and pursues historical authenticity as far as practically possible. Restoration costs and timescales reflect that.

 

The Paignton & Dartmouth is a commercial tourist attraction and couldn't justify doing things the way the Bluebell does. Its priorities are offering entertainment for the masses and those views. Spurious names on engines is just part of that package. Any appeal to the "cognoscenti" is incidental.

 

John

[Neal Ball]

Re: Pullman car 54

 

This might give a clue to how much might have been spent - bear in mind part of which was grant money:

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/car54.html

 

Overall though it gives more seats in the carriage than those that will be disposed of.

 

[Oldddudders]

 

[Hippel]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Done very, very well I might add. 

Back in May, I had a driver experience at Horsted Keynes on their 09, very enjoyable. Part of the experience was a personal conducted tour of the carriage workshops there. The vehicles in there were very well looked after.

 

Paul

[The Evil Bus Driver]

41 minutes ago, Hippel said:

Back in May, I had a driver experience at Horsted Keynes on their 09, very enjoyable. Part of the experience was a personal conducted tour of the carriage workshops there. The vehicles in there were very well looked after.

 

Paul

They're a good bunch in there. Absolute artists when it comes to restoration. 

[rasalmon]

On 06/08/2023 at 16:05, 60526 said:

I wonder what the likes of Richard Salmon and Dave Clark (and other volunteers come to think of it) would say if they were given £800k to spend on other unrestored coaches in the collection. Keep the LBSCR saloon out of this conversation.

It wouldn't go very far... a volunteer restoration of something like the Maunsell Restaurant Car is expected to come in at around £150,000 (of which we've now raised £140k).  But we're restoring that as volunteers, so money is not the issue, it's available volunteer manpower.  If everyone stopped posting on here and instead spent the equivalent time volunteering on their nearest heritage railway there'd be much less to winge about and much more to celebrate. 
A Pullman is twice as complex as the restaurant car.  Add in full time staff costs, and you soon get to such an apparently huge amount.  But it's still less than VSOE/Belmond would spend/have spent on an overhaul.
But remember that this money includes a substantial donation received to enable the restoration of a Pullman, a grant from the DoT for adding wheelchair access.
We'd love to be given £800,000 for other coaches, but we'd have to sub-contract the work out.  We looked into that recently, and to restore a couple of 6-wheeler Victorian carriages we'd be looking at £600k, even with us completing the internal restoration.  But the reason that money is worth spending for a Pullman is that a) the majority of the cost has been granted/gifted to the project and b) the commercial return of running the Pullman Train makes the expenditure worthwhile, since it's a highly marketable and profitable service which subsidises the rest of the Bluebell's operation (or put another way, stops the railway going out of business).
 

[rasalmon]

On 14/08/2023 at 12:47, 97xx said:

I do wonder if we are getting "£300k over budget" incorrectly added to the £500k recently reported - i.e. perhaps the budget (if there ever was one) was £2-300k and it's gone way over, but I would doubt £800k is really likely.

 

However, just guessing!

Given that Paul, as well as being Chairman, is also C&W Director at present, he's unlikely to have got his figures wrong.
Yes, the initial budget was OF COURSE set.  The donation and grant together came to about £400k and the Bluebell Trust additionally contributed another £100k.  The overspend is largely down to additional costs of contractor/staff time as the project has run on beyond its expected completion date, in part due to Covid, in part due to it being a bigger task than initially envisaged.  e.g. the original bogies were decided as being too expensive to overhaul, but the replacements haven't been cheap to do either.  300 new 7/8" diameter hot rivets in the underframe.  New headstocks.  New springs. New coach ends, new timber roof, new inner ceiling. New brasswork, new table lamps, new seats.  The marquetry panelling was going to be overhauled by contractors, but they couldn't do it, so that was done using in-house staff, taking the rotten plywood off the back of the marquetry and fixing it to new plywood.  Not something I'd want to tackle.  The result is superb!
Photos from a couple of years ago.  I've not been able to get inside to take photos more recently.

[Bucoops]

Regarding the marquetry, are Dunn's still going? Not seen them mentioned in quite some time.