Hornby 2-HAL

[Ian Hargrave]

Whilst not disputing your own experiences I would like to make a few points. First of all places like this forum demand more and more detailing and delicate parts. The older representations of outside valve gear were much thicker and more robust (honestly trying to dismantle an old Triang Duchess is fun!). However to attain realism both Hornby and Bachmann have slimmed things down. If Hornby were to make the motion thicker for the sake of robustness people would moan it was spoiling the model.

 

Similarly, with the best packaging in the world. Parcels get thrown about and mishandled / dropped. The throwing of a parcel onto the platform labelled as 'fragile' on the Titfield Thunderbolt probably isn't far from the truth. Now moulding details onto the main body increases robustness, however once again you run into people moaning about the quality of the model and how everything should be seperately fitted. Basically it is, in my opinion, a case of robustnestness against seperately fitted parts. A balance must

 

Hornby will replace a model that is defective and I assume they collect statstics (as any company would) on the rate of failure. Burying heads in the sand seems unlikely as of course faulty models cost them money. As effectively they've paid for the production of two models and only sold one.

 

I hope you write to Hornby and express your concerns and hopefully you have better luck next time

Thank you and I appreciate what you say but I remain unconvinced. Hornby do know ,they have been made aware many times over.Delicate parts need not be fragile and need not be the subject of poor assembly quality.However,we are wandering off topic of the 2HAL and perhaps we should continue the dialogue elsewhere

[jonathan452]

Oh I forgot to mention. The body sides are unusually floppy, seems like thinner styrene so be careful to anyone who is tinkering with it.

Not just Hornby but the new iPhone 6 as well by all accounts.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2767465/On-bend-er-Just-days-iPhone-6-Plus-launched-come-reports-bends-leave-pocket-long.html#ixzz3EF5wkrVc

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[Ian Abel]

Not just Hornby but the new iPhone 6 as well by all accounts.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2767465/On-bend-er-Just-days-iPhone-6-Plus-launched-come-reports-bends-leave-pocket-long.html#ixzz3EF5wkrVc

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Based on the TV news video of the prat in Oz who was first to get one and in rushing to open the package for TV watched it jump out and crash on the concrete, I guess I'm still fine with the tight packaging Hornby provided for the 2-BIL - assume the 2-HAL is identically packaged as it sounds like it is...

iPhonesand other new technology aren't always much better in terms of issues, needing fixing, replacement, etc., we're not alone with potential QC issues I think...

[bigherb]

Well the sun came out for bit today so some better pictures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nicely done pipework at the inner ends especially the tank fillers which correctly fit into the collectors on the roof and not dive into the roof a millimetre away from the collectors Bachmann take note.

If you take the body off make sure the brackets on the ends that hold the body to the frame on the prototype fit outside the body other wise they make the buffer droop down, I only noticed it in the picture.

After a good running in last night it now really is a silky smooth runner, on the whole a very well presented model.

The only down side is if you want to fit front couplings something is awry with the coupling pockets a standard NEM coupling won't lock in, I shortened the length of the pocket by cutting off a bit off the end so the coupling will slide further in and lock which actually then gives quite a nice coupling distance.

If you want to remove the bogies they are the normal Hornby clip fit but are very tight too get off, it is easier to remove the body (only two easily released clips at each end) to get at the bogie release lugs.

[Xerces Fobe2]

So soon after the Blue 2BIL, but what a great looking model! I guess a "Farewell to the 2BIL/2HAL" tour my well become a regular feature on certain NLL layout! 

[Phatbob]

 

I hope you write to Hornby and express your concerns and hopefully you have better luck next time

 

Thanks for the good wishes.  Oh yes!  Hornby have received a frank expression of my views on their recent performance.  I wouldn't burden the readers of this forum with my complaints without also making them to those responsible.  There wouldn't be much point in that.

The learning point here folks is to check everything before you leave the shop these days.  that's not how it should be, but seems to be how it is.

[RFS]

 

The only down side is if you want to fit front couplings something is awry with the coupling pockets a standard NEM coupling won't lock in, I shortened the length of the pocket by cutting off a bit off the end so the coupling will slide further in and lock which actually then gives quite a nice coupling distance.

If you want to remove the bogies they are the normal Hornby clip fit but are very tight too get off, it is easier to remove the body (only two easily released clips at each end) to get at the bogie release lugs.

 This is silly - Hornby really have slipped up here.  Got mine today and indeed no NEM coupling will fit in the trailer coach's NEM pocket because it's too long! No problem with the pocket on the powered coach though.  Do Hornby actually test these things first? Looks like I'll have to cut a bit off, or perhaps use a sliver of plasticard to make a tight fit!

 

Also one of the fuse boxes for the powered bogie was loose in the box - fortunately easily glued back on (like the pick up shoe beam on my 2-BIL),

[roundhouse]

 This is silly - Hornby really have slipped up here.  Got mine today and indeed no NEM coupling will fit in the trailer coach's NEM pocket because it's too long! No problem with the pocket on the powered coach though.  Do Hornby actually test these things first? Looks like I'll have to cut a bit off, or perhaps use a sliver of plasticard to make a tight fit!

 

Also one of the fuse boxes for the powered bogie was loose in the box - fortunately easily glued back on (like the pick up shoe beam on my 2-BIL),

Just use some canopy glue to hold the coupler in.

 

I use this to stop them drooping (Kadees) where a NEM box is a slopy fit. The canopy glue, being similar to PVA wood glue can be peeled off / out unlike Superglue etc.if you wish to change the coupler at a later date.

[Trevellan]

My 2HAL arrived from Kernow this morning, and very nice it is too. No bits broken or missing, although there is a small mark on one bodyside, easily covered by weathering. It ran nicely straight out of the box, so no complaints from me. I will be coupling the unit to a 2BIL, trailer-to-trailer, so I may have to fettle the coupling pockets a bit. A minor niggle and far better than me trying to build a kit!

[Xerces Fobe2]

Just ordered mine and will run as a 6 car with a 2 HAL tagged on the end of the 2 x 2BILs - Maybe some temporary hybrid formations too!

 

Here is some info regading BIL/HAL reformations that a published on another thread on RMweb a little while ago

 

2-BIL

Units 2028/56 had BL Motor coaches and 1939 HAL trailers

Units 2069, 2100 and 2133 had BIL motor coaches and post –war all-steel HAL trailers

 

2-HAL

Unit 2626 had a BIL trailer

Unit 2653 had a post-war all steel HAL trailer

 

Source:  Ian Allan Combined Volume circa 1970

 

XF

[phil-b259]

 This is silly - Hornby really have slipped up here.  Got mine today and indeed no NEM coupling will fit in the trailer coach's NEM pocket because it's too long! No problem with the pocket on the powered coach though.  Do Hornby actually test these things first? Looks like I'll have to cut a bit off, or perhaps use a sliver of plasticard to make a tight fit!

 

Also one of the fuse boxes for the powered bogie was loose in the box - fortunately easily glued back on (like the pick up shoe beam on my 2-BIL),

 

Given the motored end is not a problem I suspect the issue simply is someone made a mistake when designing the relevant bogie which has a shorter wheel base (9ft IIRC) than the bogie with the traction motors underneath the guards van and requires the NEM coupling pocket to be extended to compensate. If you recall this is new on the HAL model and a result of complaints about the 2BIL featuring the longer (10ft IIRC) 'motor' bogies at both outer ends.

 

In any case the situation is easily sorted by either snipping a small amount off the front of the coupling pocket* or applying some glue** to the coupler to hold it in the pocket instead of it clipping in.The downside is that this then means the motored end coupling sticks out further than the other end - however that is easily sorted by snipping a similar amount off the motored end and securing that coupler with glue** too.

 

* I have had no problems with, the shorter length coupling this produces on 2nd radius setrack curves. Incidentally I have also done this with lots of 00 releases including the likes of Hornby's King Arthur and Schools releases as the tension locks tend to stick out far too much for my eyes. Further shortening of the coupling can be obtained by also using Bachmann tension locks as they have extra material around the area where the hook pivots which can be removed thereby allowing the coupling to be pushed further back into the socket as it were.

 

** I have had no problems using PVA mixed with black acrylic paint so if the couplings nerd to be removed at some stage its pretty easy to do and leaves the pocket intact.

[Bill]

A 2HAL arrived today.

It is a really lovely model Hornby have done brilliantly.

But I agree does need much care in its handling as the bodies seem to be as fragile as the roofs on the Hawksworths

I ordered direct from Hornby, which is unusual for me.

But they offered free postage -

A very expensive form of free postage as they sent it via DHL..

And promptly got hit up by Customs Canada for a small fortune.

So it is back to 'guess who models' for my next purchase...

The only other surprise was that dinky little SYP -

Which I guess I'll just kind'a have to live with...

We'll I now hope they finish off what they have started and produce the 4 COR - which along with a 4 SUB would make them a fortune if the 2HAL is anything to go by.

[Guest Centurion]

In taking it apart to respray to blue I know what has happened to the gent who had a faulty one. Its an unusual design, the lugs on the bottom of the glazing are the only thing that really holds the body onto the chassis. If these have broken or if the glazing has completely detached this would explain why it has fallen apart.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Reading again about Hornby quality issues how about BRM/RMweb or a respected modeller from RMweb getting a pre release version of forthcoming models to give then a "test drive" from a customer perspective and then feeding issues back to Hornby for resolution before the final model is released?

 

I appreciate that the way the current manufacturing process works this might prove challanging however it would enable Hornby to interact with their customer base more effectively, reduce quality issues and help reduce negative comments about Hornby and their products. The 2BIL and 2HAL are good models slightly tarnished by avoidable mistakes so come on Hornby let's work together to make your models, great models!

 

XF

[Ian Hargrave]

Reading again about Hornby quality issues how about BRM/RMweb or a respected modeller from RMweb getting a pre release version of forthcoming models to give then a "test drive" from a customer perspective and then feeding issues back to Hornby for resolution before the final model is released?

I appreciate that the way the current manufacturing process works this might prove challanging however it would enable Hornby to interact with their customer base more effectively, reduce quality issues and help reduce negative comments about Hornby and their products. The 2BIL and 2HAL are good models slightly tarnished by avoidable mistakes so come on Hornby let's work together to make your models, great models!

XF

Problem with that rather attractive suggestion is that half of us would be trampled in the rush. No,that isn't the way to QC mass production.You are talking about product development rather than sorting problems which occur during production at the factory and subsequently.Hence effective training of skilled workforce,followed by more rigorous oversight and testing before and during packaging process.On arrival in UK,a much more effective process needs to be in place.It quite obviously isn't at present.Being cynical,it is being avoided because there is a workforce of skilled operatives out there who are doing the job for Hornby on an unpaid volunteer basis.....namely you and I,the customers.

One further problem here is that if we are to effect an improvement,it will in all probability add to the purchase price of the product.Personnel to expedite necessary improvement need to be paid.

[phil gollin]

.

 

I am rather amazed at the lack of reaction to the outer coupling problem (strictly speaking only to the non-powered end).

 

Is this the first Hornby model to be supplied without couplings (maybe the "space battle car is similar) ?

 

It seems obvious that Hornby knew of the non-power end problem and instead of correcting the fault they decided to ignore it and send the model out with the fault and no couplings.   Why didn't they either correct the fault or produce a "special" long shanked coupling for the non-power end ?

 

Here we are with another Hornby production fault which everyone seems to be trying to tip-toe around.

 

.

[SRman]

The Brighton Belle comes without any end couplings. In fact, without any end coupling pockets or mounts of any kind.

For the BIL units, and the HAL which is yet to arrive for me, I use Kadee #19 or #20 couplings (#20 for the BIL with the older-style slim buffers). I'll have to decide which to use on the HAL when it does come.

[Xerces Fobe2]

A response from Hornby about these issues at least it would indicate they are listening to their customers - Andy Y  Any chance you could have a word?

[talisman56]

Problem with that rather attractive suggestion is that half of us would be trampled in the rush. No,that isn't the way to QC mass production.You are talking about product development rather than sorting problems which occur during production at the factory and subsequently.Hence effective training of skilled workforce,followed by more rigorous oversight and testing before and during packaging process.On arrival in UK,a much more effective process needs to be in place.It quite obviously isn't at present.Being cynical,it is being avoided because there is a workforce of skilled operatives out there who are doing the job for Hornby on an unpaid volunteer basis.....namely you and I,the customers.

One further problem here is that if we are to effect an improvement,it will in all probability add to the purchase price of the product.Personnel to expedite necessary improvement need to be paid.

 

The same sort of thing that earned a certain computer software megalith an unofficial slogan in its early days: "Microsoft: The World is Our Beta Tester".

[tetsudofan]

Earlier today I was messing around coupling a couple of coaches together and noted that the Bachman "pipe" coupling that comes with the Bachman Mk.1 coaches looked as though it had a rather long tongue looked a bit on the long side so I plugged it into the HAL trailer pocket and bingo - it fitted with the little pips showing at the inner end of the box. Connected the other end of the coupling to the driving coach and bingo:

 

 

 

Sitting behind the 2-HAL are a couple of Bachmann GWR coaches with standard couplings which give a similar gap between the coaches as that of the HALs with the "pipe" coupling.

 

 

All my BILs run as 4-coach trains and as I run on dcc I decided to run the rakes as Power Car - Trailer Car - Power Car - Trailer and using the same decoders (Hattons DCR-8PIN-Direct) have found that the units operate very smoothly. The first BILs I did are connected by Hornby Roco couplings which gives about the same gap between the units as the HALs with the Bachmann "pipe":

 

 

 

When I set up the Blue BILs I decided to use one Hornby Roco coupling and one "real" Roco coupling and got the gap between the units a little closer:

 

 

I did try two Roco couplings between the units but this got the buffers touching on the curves. Maybe one I'll try two Roco couplings again an see how the perform through the pointwork.

 

Must admit that I have not yet tried the HALs through the pointwork as decoders have not yet been fitted to the HALs - but they do run ok on an oval of Hornby R608 curves on my analogue test track. Have not yet run mixed rake of HAL/BILs either.

 

Keith

[PrestburyJack]

The Brighton Belle comes without any end couplings. In fact, without any end coupling pockets or mounts of any kind.

I'm planning running my BB as 2 * 4 car units, will have to look at this.

[SRman]

If you do that, Gary, please post some photos of the coupling arrangement you come up with, and also of the pair of units (perhaps in the Brighton Belle thread).

I had wanted to run my two BELs as a 10-car set for a temporary setup ... my layout, when complete, is intended to allow for storage of 9-car EMUs (2 x 4 CEP + MLV), or locomotive plus 8 coaches as a maximum. Of course, this will also allow for 4 x 2 EPBs and 4 x 2 BIL/2 HAL sets.

Note the cunning way I have brought us back on topic!!  

[tetsudofan]

Further to yesterdays posting my two 2-HALs were dcc'd today (using the Hattons DCR-8PIN-Direct) and set on the same dcc address (that of the leading HAL). The Bachmann "pipe" coupling was attached to the trailer car of the BR version and the power car of the SR version. The 4-car set was then sent off to the fiddle yard to see how the coupled units negotiated the pointwork:

 

 

 

Sent the train round a few times and no problems were encountered negotiating the point work using the Bachmann "pipe" couplings between the units. No problems with the buffers interlocking etc as can be seen below:

 

 

 

The BR/SR pair will remain coupled until the arrival of the next BR version (R3290) at which time the BR versions will be paired.....with, maybe, the SR version being paired with the SR 2-BIL......but not yet decided on that.

 

 

What would be nice next would be a Bulleid 4-DD DoubleDecker.....but then, maybe, pigs will fly one day.....

 

 

Keith

[Pete 75C]

What would be nice next would be a Bulleid 4-DD DoubleDecker.....but then, maybe, pigs will fly one day.....

 

Now that would be nice...

[Southernman46]

They have already................so you never know..............

http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/images/uploads/blog/f111c/image001.jpg