Coombe Barton Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Let us not forget that the existing 'pretty seafront' owes its entire appearance to the presence of the railway and that it has changed over time and will no doubt continue to change as engineers evolve better methods of protection from a sea - which as we have seen recently - is as much a threat to Dawlish itself as to the railway which protects it. Looking at Victorian pix of that part of the coast it's interesting to see how much erosion of headlands has occurred, even without the last set of storms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2014 [edit: as I understand it (thx Tim!) the new wall will have a concrete structural core and sandstone decoration. That means that the sandstone is no longer used structurally and it's properties in that field have become much less important. Added benefit is that NR needs less sandstone, hence cutting costs (excuse the pun ) ] The facing will not be sandstone, it will be granite. Had Brunel used sandstone the line would have been long gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Not "seem to indicate", but actually showed another pump in action. Here. See Here. . Would they need concrete all the way up ? But I guess it has to go as far as the tops of the drainage pipes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2014 Would they need concrete all the way up ? But I guess it has to go as far as the tops of the drainage pipes The drainage pipes are being built up section by section, to the required height. A specified distance will be left between the top of the concrete and the bottom of the sleepers, and this will be filled with ballast, to ensure good drainage and ride quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Looking at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81949-washout-at-dawlish/?p=1350108 it's a grey granite in a random pattern. The closest copings appear to be of a different style to the ones further away - is that the station to the photolgrapher's left? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I think that NR would be able to demonstrate that all reasonable endeavours had been gone through, in terms of matching the granite appearance. The root cause of the problem is easily enough laid at the door of Mother Nature. It's not a question of changing the configuration of the low-level walkway at this point, although I'd prefer to see it rebuilt to match the existing higher level walkway on the rest of the Sea Wall - we're simply putting it back like it was before the storms. Then the whole debate about new Sea Walls, verses alternative inland routes, can carry on... Even English Heritage (usually) accepts that you can't do something which is impossible, but they tend to be even more relaxed than that; anyone who doubts it just needs to check out the mis-matched stone used in the Great Court development at the heart of the British Museum; different coloured Portland, which sticks out like a sore thumb, but the Museum was allowed to get away with it. The structural change at Dawlish is interesting; basically they now seem to be creating a solid concrete core on which are to be hung decorative panels of granite. But to most architects (not those in commercial development work) just about the dumbest thing you can do with stone is to cut it into thin slivers and hang it on the outside of a structure as a bit of decoration; either it's structural, or there'll be a material which offers a better solution. And the dominant trend in conservation is that you don't repair things with a pastiche of the old which is designed to fit in without being noticeable - you make it obvious when you have created a modern intervention. Which all suggests to me that the powers-that-be won't actually be that picky about the type of stone work used in the repair - and a close-enough match will be considered, well, close enough. The debate about what happens then will be interesting. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 ... pasty... I still cannot find halfway decent ones over here amongst the philistines... The thing is when you cannot find something on a whole continent you tend to get obsessive about it. Tangent, though a gastronomically vital one: thanks to reading a never previously encountered volume of Mr Bryson's oeuvre last week. He found Pasties offered for sale on Michigan's 'Upper Peninsula'; bought one at Menominee, just before reaching the border with Wisconsin. Apparently due to Cornish miners working in the area in C19th. Tried it, found it was gargantuan size, and tasted right, though somehow wrong in the land of fast food that squirts and dribbles down your chin. So, conveniently available only half a continent distant from NY, NY. Mind, this in 'The Lost Continent', first pub. 1989... And back to rebuilding Devon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NXEA! Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A question for Captain Kernow and Gary H - what is being done about the houses above the railway? I mean it's obvious that they will have been stabilised and assessed etc etc, but when/how will they be repaired? I imagine the most obvious time to do them will be now, but I must confess to not having a clue about how quickly insurance claims are paid out. If it were the case that it will take a long time for the claim to go through and the monies to repair the houses released, how will they be rebuilt with an active and running railway below them? I presume there is a way this can be done without affecting the railway below? I'm not trying to be pedantic on any of these points, moreover I'm genuinely interested in the logistics of these sort of things! And finally, is there any chance that the reopening date of the railway could actually be brought forward? Of course it's a huge job, I'm not underestimating that, but looking at it from the point of view that Network Rail effectively (apart from input from mother nature) have the site to do pretty much what they want with it when they want to as there are no trains over the next couple of months, is there any potential for the timescale to be sped up? I'm sure Devon and Cornwall would be delighted if they could get their railway back early! Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 There is (or was!) a road between the railway line and the houses - where the "spider" is now - so it should be possible to work on the houses without encroaching upon the railway line. As regards the reopening date, I suspect there may be a touch of the Scotty principle at work: "Mr Scott,do you always multiply your estimates by a factor of four?" "Aye, Captain.How else d'ye think I got my reputation as a miracle worker?" - TWOK "Ye dinnae tell him how long it's really gonna take,did ye? Ye'll never get a reputation as a miracle worker..." - "Relics" Though more honestly I think the mid-April date is a worst-case scenario allowing for disruptive weather etc and if they can get the line open before then, they will do so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Not "seem to indicate", but actually showed another pump in action. Here. See Here. . Thanks for two very enlightening photo's. The picture of the wall from that angle make a lot of things clear. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie_pudd Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I was surprised this morning with the rain and rough-ish sea any more concrete was poured , as you can see another busy day for the lads. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2014 Quarries can be re-opened when a special need arises. Beer Quarry (the caves now operated as a tourist attraction) provided stone for many churches and significant buildings in the country. Officially it is closed and worked out but there are two people (IIRC) with authority to work stone if the need arises to repair such a building. Castle-an-Dinas above Penznace was also re-opened on a couple of occasions to provide emergency rock armour during previous storms in order to protect weakened coastal defences. The number and power of storms this winter would probably have rendered that exercise futile this time. Dawlish will be rebuilt using modern techniques and the best match of stone available in a short time. A longer-term solution may need to be negotiated and might also involve a closer match of stone. CK has already alluded to that much. Keep up the grand works chaps - your efforts are very much appreciated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted February 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2014 Re the reopening 'under promise over deliver' is the best way for work done in the public eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 they must be council workers, 2 to try and repair the digger and 3 to watch! Our council employ an extra one to sit in the transit all day, texting and reading the daily paper! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Our council employ an extra one to sit in the transit all day, texting and reading the daily paper! Where I used to live in London, the extra guy paid to sit in the van was essential. Left empty, it would have been nicked within minutes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2014 Quarries can be re-opened when a special need arises. Beer Quarry (the caves now operated as a tourist attraction) provided stone for many churches and significant buildings in the country. Officially it is closed and worked out but there are two people (IIRC) with authority to work stone if the need arises to repair such a building. Castle-an-Dinas above Penznace was also re-opened on a couple of occasions to provide emergency rock armour during previous storms in order to protect weakened coastal defences. The number and power of storms this winter would probably have rendered that exercise futile this time. Dawlish will be rebuilt using modern techniques and the best match of stone available in a short time. A longer-term solution may need to be negotiated and might also involve a closer match of stone. CK has already alluded to that much. Keep up the grand works chaps - your efforts are very much appreciated. Seamless polished concrete might be a better idea. Putting joints in the facing will just create the purchase for the sea to tear it off. This is supposed to be a 21st Century working railway - not a museum piece. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Tangent, though a gastronomically vital one: thanks to reading a never previously encountered volume of Mr Bryson's oeuvre last week. He found Pasties offered for sale on Michigan's 'Upper Peninsula'; bought one at Menominee, just before reaching the border with Wisconsin. Apparently due to Cornish miners working in the area in C19th. Tried it, found it was gargantuan size, and tasted right, though somehow wrong in the land of fast food that squirts and dribbles down your chin. So, conveniently available only half a continent distant from NY, NY. Mind, this in 'The Lost Continent', first pub. 1989... Pasties are the signature food of the Upper Peninsula - common from about Munising, MI to somewhere beyond Ironwood, MI. Unfortunately, that is a bit of a trek for Pete (it's an 12hr drive for me, and I'm at least 6hrs closer than he is). However, the Suomi Restaurant in Houghton, MI is worth it . Adrian Edited February 23, 2014 by Adrian Wintle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2014 A question for Captain Kernow and Gary H - what is being done about the houses above the railway? I mean it's obvious that they will have been stabilised and assessed etc etc, but when/how will they be repaired? I imagine the most obvious time to do them will be now, but I must confess to not having a clue about how quickly insurance claims are paid out. If it were the case that it will take a long time for the claim to go through and the monies to repair the houses released, how will they be rebuilt with an active and running railway below them? I presume there is a way this can be done without affecting the railway below? I'm not trying to be pedantic on any of these points, moreover I'm genuinely interested in the logistics of these sort of things! And finally, is there any chance that the reopening date of the railway could actually be brought forward? Of course it's a huge job, I'm not underestimating that, but looking at it from the point of view that Network Rail effectively (apart from input from mother nature) have the site to do pretty much what they want with it when they want to as there are no trains over the next couple of months, is there any potential for the timescale to be sped up? I'm sure Devon and Cornwall would be delighted if they could get their railway back early! Thanks in advance. As I understand it, the plan is for the houses in Riviera Terrace that were affected by the washout to remain stabilised, in terms of back-filling the hole created by the sea, with materials appropriate to the task at hand. After that, I suspect it will be down to the insurance companies of the individual householders to deal with any repairs to the fabric of the houses themselves (ie. on the assumption that by then, they will not be falling down). There is sufficient space to deal with any building works to the houses, once the railway has reopened. In fact, some of the detached houses right at the end of Riviera Terrace were built relatively recently, with the railway in normal operational status adjacent to them. As for reopening, the railway will reopen when the work is done and all is ready, which will be in line with the public estimates given by Network Rail. I really can't add any more to that, other than to remind everyone again, not to get too focussed on the work that is visible from the webcam, but also to remember that there are many other more minor structural repairs, plus a lot of work on the track and signalling to deal with too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It appears that there is a train scheduled to run today between Barrow hill L.I.P. and Okehampton Anyone know what this is.? Could it have anything to do with the Dawlish repairs, perhaps stone from the quarry.? Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Our council employ an extra one to sit in the transit all day, texting and reading the daily paper! The job title is apprentice - you have to start training with the most vital part of the job. How to appear to be doing something when actually not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Horse Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Loving the informative info CK, but could I ask what is probably deemed a silly question but how did Brunel build this originally. I may be a little thick but even I know he didn't have a load of steel containers to protect him :laugh_mini2: Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Loving the informative info CK, but could I ask what is probably deemed a silly question but how did Brunel build this originally. I may be a little thick but even I know he didn't have a load of steel containers to protect him :laugh_mini2: Thanks in advance These links might prove useful: http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Sea%20Wall%20Guide/SWhistory.html http://www.devonheritage.org/stentiford/Issue_17/AtmosphericRailway/3May2art2.htm http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~imw/Dawlish-Warren.htm This last link is to a .pdf file which can take a while to load: http://www.dawlishcommunitytrust.org.uk/bruneltrail/Rockstone.pdf Edited February 24, 2014 by Pete_S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The job title is apprentice - you have to start training with the most vital part of the job. How to appear to be doing something when actually not. Mmm, working very hard to give the appearance of working when actually not! I've had the misfortune of having those sorts about me on occasions. One chap had been retired for two years before any-one noticed he had gone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2014 It appears that there is a train scheduled to run today between Barrow hill L.I.P. and Okehampton Anyone know what this is.? Could it have anything to do with the Dawlish repairs, perhaps stone from the quarry.? Keith. As it's running from one preservation site to another and is shown as a light engine it might not be. However if the quarry is going to reopen and someone plans to move stuff out by rail it could possibly be power for such trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2014 Moving stone out of Meldon by rail is going to be interesting with no headshunt available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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