Wagons - to carry 10.0.0 - tare 6.4.0 - what does it all mean ?

[meil]

Actually we (i.e. UK) have been using decimal currency since 1849 - that is why the Florin or 2/- was introduced.

 

So we had the best of both worlds a decimal system and a duodecimal system. So we had 1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12 and 1/20 of a pound.

[doilum]

2 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Yes, I know. I qualified at university as a mechanical engineer so had to work in metric, but I can't envision it. If you told me that something is 15cm long, it means nothing. First, engineers don't use centimetres; we use metres and millimeters so I have to convert it to 150mm. That doesn't help much, but I know that 150mm is about six inches, and I know what that looks like!

 

Metric works on a base of ten, but nature doesn't. There are four seasons in a year; the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, and the Earth 365 1/4 days to orbit the Sun.

 

When I was a student - a mature student - I was amazed at how many of my much younger companions simply couldn't work with fractions. And when we came to do long division . . !

 

Each system has its pros and cons.

The more interesting question is WHY you / I cannot envision it. For those aged over 55 there is perhaps the excuse that we were originally taught to measure and think imperially and then translate into a metric equivalent. Those under this age will have been educated in a metric only system. Dad was a primary school head and came home in late 1971 with a box full of wooden rulers. The education office had issued stocks of new metric rulers, weights and jugs with an instruction to destroy all imperial measuring devices. We were never short of paint stirrers. In 1979 the JMB examination board stopped accepting geography answers that were not given in the correct metric units. Forty years ought to be enough time!

Perhaps the problem is that we were / are not taught to guesstimate distance, volume and weight an advantageous skill for persons young and not so young.

[Wickham Green too]

The great thing about using Imperial measurements is the difficulty of getting the decimal point in the wrong place !

[Steamport Southport]

34 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

The great thing about using Imperial measurements is the difficulty of getting the decimal point in the wrong place !

 

However you still got mistakes with feet and inches.  

 

 

 

[ikcdab]

8 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Going back to wagon tare weights, and differences between supposedly identical wagons, another factor may have been of a wooden wagon was weighed when wet, the water absorbed by the wood would add to the tare weight.

Really..? I assumed that's why they were painted,  to stop the wood absorbing water....

[billbedford]

They were only painted on the outside. The floor and inner face of the planks were not painted. 

[JohnH]

24 minutes ago, billbedford said:

They were only painted on the outside. The floor and inner face of the planks were not painted. 

And many, in BR days, often had planks replaced that were left unpainted.

 

[ikcdab]

11 minutes ago, JohnH said:

And many, in BR days, often had planks replaced that were left unpainted.

 

Yes but even so, wood becoming heavier because it gets wet and then presumably gets lighter as it dries out, is so frequent that it cannot possibly affect the painted tare weight, unless they weighed the wagons after every rain storm.....

[doilum]

The tare weight of the wagon was a matter of trust between the colliery and the coal merchant. There were potentially significant gains to be had from whoever owned the wagon. Does anyone know if there were regulations requiring wagons to be reassessed during their working lives?

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, meil said:

Actually we (i.e. UK) have been using decimal currency since 1849 - that is why the Florin or 2/- was introduced.

 

So we had the best of both worlds a decimal system and a duodecimal system. So we had 1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12 and 1/20 of a pound.

By my count (admittedly not all at the same time and excluding groats and fractions thereof) there have been coins of value:

 

1/4d (1/960)

1/2d (1/480)

1d (1/240)

1/2p (1/200)

1p (1/100)

3d (1/80)

2p (1/50)

6d (1/40)

1/- or 5p (1/20)

2/- or 10p (1/10)

2/6 (1/8)

20p (1/5)

5/- (1/4)

50p (1/2)

£1 (1)

£2 (2)

 

Were there ever any guinea or half-guinea coins?

 

[Barry O]

Yes there were Guinea coins .. not sure if they were legal tender after the late 1800s..

 

Baz

[hmrspaul]

There were gold half guineas. I've one somewhere!

 

Paul

[jim.snowdon]

8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The great thing about using Imperial measurements is the difficulty of getting the decimal point in the wrong place !

Which is why on engineering drawings all dimensions are sometimes quoted in millimetres, even though numerically they may run to six digits. No decimal point is required, anything finer than 1mm being lost in the tolerances.

 

Jim

[Michael Hodgson]

Crowns (which used to be 5/- or 25p) have been issued in more recent times with a £5 value and are legal tender.

 

Maundy money comes in unusual denominations, both before and after decimalisation.

[jcm@gwr]

Plus Sovereigns and half-Sovereigns.

[Wickham Green too]

9 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Which is why on engineering drawings all dimensions are sometimes quoted in millimetres, even though numerically they may run to six digits. No decimal point is required, anything finer than 1mm being lost in the tolerances.

But when you quote the length of a railway carriage - or similar - in mm you really ought to qualify that as "At Room Temperature" !

 

( I've grabbed a drawing - which happens to be a class 143 'Pacer' - and it's 31092mm long ................... sorry, but my eyes glaze over at the thought an' I can't envisage that ! ......................................... at least the three-car class 150 is easy : 60300mm is simply divisible by 300 so approx. 201 ft. )

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

( I've grabbed a drawing - which happens to be a class 143 'Pacer' - and it's 31092mm long ................... sorry, but my eyes glaze over at the thought an' I can't envisage that ! ......................................... at least the three-car class 150 is easy : 60300mm is simply divisible by 300 so approx. 201 ft. )

 

1 ft = 304.8 mm (exactly, by the definition of the inch) so nearer 197 ft than 201 ft. The Pacer is 102 ft to a gnat's whisker so I presume was designed in imperial units.

[Compound2632]

14 hours ago, doilum said:

The tare weight of the wagon was a matter of trust between the colliery and the coal merchant. There were potentially significant gains to be had from whoever owned the wagon. Does anyone know if there were regulations requiring wagons to be reassessed during their working lives?

 

I don't know about regulations but I would suppose the wagon would be re-weighed after overhaul. So that takes us back to the question of frequency of maintenance (rather than repair).

[doilum]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Crowns (which used to be 5/- or 25p) have been issued in more recent times with a £5 value and are legal tender.

 

Maundy money comes in unusual denominations, both before and after decimalisation.

There are four silver coins of 1,2,3&4 p values. The largest (4p) is about the size of a single modern penny.

[LMS2968]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

1 ft = 304.8 mm (exactly, by the definition of the inch) so nearer 197 ft than 201 ft. The Pacer is 102 ft to a gnat's whisker so I presume was designed in imperial units.

Are gnat's whiskers imperial or metric?

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Are gnat's whiskers imperial or metric?

 

A gnat's whisker is an artefact whose width can be expressed as a numerical value multiplied by a unit; the measurer is free to choose their preferred length unit.

[Fat Controller]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I don't know about regulations but I would suppose the wagon would be re-weighed after overhaul. So that takes us back to the question of frequency of maintenance (rather than repair).

If you look at sites such as Paul Bartlett's, you'll often see that the freshest paint on an otherwise 'tired' wagon is the tare weight. 

[Compound2632]

BTW I don't buy the suggestion that significant fluctuations in tare weight could be due to water absorption. An increase of 1 qtr would require the absorption of nearly 3 gal.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Compound2632

[Wickham Green too]

38 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

Are gnat's whiskers imperial or metric?

Depends whether its a British or European gnat.

 

The similar Midges Whisker - which is a particularly Scottish measurement - always comes in multiples of 'swarm' ................. and tends towards European.

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Depends whether its a British or European gnat.

 

The similar Midges Whisker - which is a particularly Scottish measurement - always comes in multiples of 'swarm' ................. and tends towards European.

 

Gnats know no borders.

 

Whereas midges, in my experience, are fervent Scots Gnats.