Drummond T9 4-4-0

[Robin Brasher]

This topic is to talk about the models of T9s that have been produced, the prototype engines and the trains they hauled.

[Adams442T]

Might I suggest Robin that a more suitable location for this topic would be under Modelling - Prototype - UK Prototype.

[Robin Brasher]

T9 30120 has just arrived at Swanage Station on Friday 7 March. It is in BR lined black with a cycling lion crest, an eight wheel tender and a narrow cab. On Saturday 28 November 1942 two German Messerschmitt 109s attacked it and it leaked like a sieve afterwards. Further information on page 55 of The Swanage Branch by Andrew P.M. Wright.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Robin Brasher

[Robin Brasher]

Might I suggest Robin that a more suitable location for this topic would be under Modelling - Prototype - UK Prototype.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Robin Brasher

[Andy Y]

I am sorry that I do not know how to relocate the topic.

The admin team have to relocate topics; can you please make sure you post them in the right area to start with?

 

I've moved this to the Southern Railway area now.

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby T9 in LSWR lined Urie Green livery on Corfe Viaduct at Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting in Furzebrook Village Hall on Friday 7 March.  British Railways repainted 120 in LSWR 1918 Urie locomotive green livery before it was withdrawn from service in 1963 so it ran with BR SR Bulleid coaches. It never ran in LSWR colours in this condition.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Robin Brasher

[Richard Lee]

Hornby T9 in LSWR lined Royal Green livery on Corfe Viaduct at Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting in Furzebrook Village Hall on Friday 7 March. 120 wore this livery from 1907 when it was built until it was repainted in sage green livery after 1914. British Railways also repainted 120 in LSWR Royal Green livery before it was withdrawn from service in 1963 so it ran with BR SR Bulleid coaches.

Thank you for that information.  "Southern Counties Branch Line Steam" by Michael Welch, ISBN978-1-85414-359-4, has a couple of colour pictures that include the prototype in that livery on an excursion on the Cuckoo Line, in 1962.  I was curious about about it.

[Guest Belgian]

120 wore this livery from 1907 when it was built until it was repainted in sage green livery after 1914. British Railways also repainted 120 in LSWR Royal Green livery before it was withdrawn from service in 1963 so it ran with BR SR Bulleid coaches.

No it didn't. The model is of a Urie Rebuilt T9, and is in Urie's green livery which replaced Drummond's livery from 1916/7 during the Great War.

 

No. 120 was built in 1899 and rebuilt into the form modelled by Hornby in 1927 when it received Maunsell's Southern Railway Sage Green livery so it never appeared in the livery illustrated until 'restored' by BR in 1962.

 

The engine was attacked by a single German aircraft on 29th November 1942 between Moreton and Wareham on the LSWR main line. Despite 20mm cannon fire it was found that it had no serious damage other than the tender side sheeting and the outer firebox casing. Also two superheater elements were holed together and a lubricating pipe and was severedand both cab lookout windows were shattered. (Information from don Bradley's LSWR Locomotives).

 

No LSWR livery was ever described as 'Royal Green', although one T9 - no. 119 (BR 30119) - was repainted into Bulleid's Malachite Green livery for use on Royal trains after the Second World War.

 

I'm afraid, Robin, that you are becoming notorious for writing so much garbage, but this particular posting takes the biscuit as there is nothing correct in it! Please check your facts before writing and then check again. It is usually regarded as the most heinous of modelling crimes to put incorrect facts on record. Already someone has thanked you for it so now believes that what you have written is true.

 

Sorry, but there it is.

 

JE

Edited March 9, 2014 by Belgian

[aussiebrfan]

009.JPG Hornby T9 in LSWR lined Royal Green livery on Corfe Viaduct at Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting in Furzebrook Village Hall on Friday 7 March. 120 wore this livery from 1907 when it was built until it was repainted in sage green livery after 1914. British Railways also repainted 120 in LSWR Royal Green livery before it was withdrawn from service in 1963 so it ran with BR SR Bulleid coaches.

 

What colour is that grass!!! It's very green, almost to the point of being fluorescent.

[Guest Belgian]

Thank you for that information.  "Southern Counties Branch Line Steam" by Michael Welch, ISBN978-1-85414-359-4, has a couple of colour pictures that include the prototype in that livery on an excursion on the Cuckoo Line, in 1962.  I was curious about about it.

Sadly, Richard, you need to ignore 'that information'. see my earlier posting.

 

JE

[N15class]

If this is going to discuss the T9 you really want to read illustrate history of LSWR locos. Drummond issue.

 

But i think it will be more a thread about what to do with Hornby loco and coaches. It is shame as their history was interesting. There are also some nice models of them in larger scales too. I would love to have my hard drive so I could show my friends 7 1/2 inch version.

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for that information.  "Southern Counties Branch Line Steam" by Michael Welch, ISBN978-1-85414-359-4, has a couple of colour pictures that include the prototype in that livery on an excursion on the Cuckoo Line, in 1962.  I was curious about about it.

 

If this is going to discuss the T9 you really want to read illustrate history of LSWR locos. Drummond issue.

 

But i think it will be more a thread about what to do with Hornby loco and coaches. It is shame as their history was interesting. There are also some nice models of them in larger scales too. I would love to have my hard drive so I could show my friends 7 1/2 inch version.

There are several books, chapters and articles about T9s. These include The Book of the T9 4-4-0s by Richard Derry, Locomotives Illustrated 44 October-November 1985 The Drummond 4-4-0s and Double Singles of the LSWR, Preserved Locomotives fourth revised edition by H C Casserley and a Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives by J H Russell. I would be interested to see any pictures of models in any scale and pictures of the prototype.

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for that information.  "Southern Counties Branch Line Steam" by Michael Welch, ISBN978-1-85414-359-4, has a couple of colour pictures that include the prototype in that livery on an excursion on the Cuckoo Line, in 1962.  I was curious about about it.

Thank you. I have revised my post.

[alfsboy]

006.JPG006.JPGT9 30120 has just arrived at Swanage Station on Friday 7 March. It is in BR lined black with a cycling lion crest, an eight wheel tender and a narrow cab. On Saturday 28 November 1942 two German Messerschmitt 109s attacked it and it leaked like a sieve afterwards. Further information on page 55 of The Swanage Branch by Andrew P.M. Wright.

Thats interesting .My father was a fireman on the Southern  during the war .He was straffed by some Messerscmitts while on the foot plate and also straffed by an FW190 during one  the infamous tip and run attacks on Dover  .He was shot  at while walking down Dover  high street .As he died when I was young I'll never know .My Granny told me all this but she knew her Luftwaffe  close up and personal being from Dover and living in London during the B of B and the Blitz.

[Robin Brasher]

No it didn't. The model is of a Urie Rebuilt T9, and is in Urie's green livery which replaced Drummond's livery from 1916/7 during the Great War.

 

No. 120 was built in 1899 and rebuilt into the form modelled by Hornby in 1927 when it received Maunsell's Southern Railway Sage Green livery so it never appeared in the livery illustrated until 'restored' by BR in 1962.

 

The engine was attacked by a single German aircraft on 29th November 1942 between Moreton and Wareham on the LSWR main line. Despite 20mm cannon fire it was found that it had no serious damage other than the tender side sheeting and the outer firebox casing. Also two superheater elements were holed together and a lubricating pipe and was severedand both cab lookout windows were shattered. (Information from don Bradley's LSWR Locomotives).

 

No LSWR livery was ever described as 'Royal Green', although one T9 - no. 119 (BR 30119) - was repainted into Bulleid's Malachite Green livery for use on Royal trains after the Second World War.

 

I'm afraid, Robin, that you are becoming notorious for writing so much garbage, but this particular posting takes the biscuit as there is nothing correct in it! Please check your facts before writing and then check again. It is usually regarded as the most heinous of modelling crimes to put incorrect facts on record. Already someone has thanked you for it so now believes that what you have written is true.

 

Sorry, but there it is.

 

JE

Thank you for the information. I have amended my post. I would point out that my statement about the attack on 120 was based on an eyewitness account by Stan Brown when he saw two German Messerschmitt ME 109s flying in low over Wool station from the north. He went on to say that the locomotive had been riddled with bullets and cannon shells from end to end. She was leaking water like a sieve.

 

On page 14 of The Book of T9s by Richard Derry he states that royal green livery appeared for passenger classes late in 1895. It was ...applied to T9s when they were built. On page 8 of HMRS Livery Register no 3 LSWR and Southern L Tavender describes the Drummond passenger engine livery 1895 to October 1917 as royal green although he does list a number of alternative descriptions for the colour.

[Robin Brasher]

00 gauge Wills T9 kit in Southern olive green livery crossing Corfe Viaduct on the Swanage Railway. The kit has a wide cab although the prototype has a narrow cab. The model represents the T9 after 24 September 1932 when the E prefix was removed from the number and before 1 May 1940 when it was repainted in unlined Maunsell green with Bulleid lettering. It could also represent the locomotive in the early 1990s when it carried this livery.

[Robin Brasher]

T9 120 at Harmans Cross Station on 7 March 1993. It arrived on the Swanage Railway in December 1990 and stayed there until 23 March 1994. Opinion is divided as to which is the best livery. For me lined black with the cycling lion totem suits the engine when pulling the crimson and cream Wessex Belle set and the British Railways goods trains on the Swanage Railway. It does not look out of place with the British Railways Southern Region green coaches. A locomotive in Southern Railway olive green hauling British Railways rolling stock looks wrong to me.

[jwealleans]

This is the Hornby LSWR liveried T9 on the Ormesby Hall layout 'Corfe'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by jwealleans

[Robin Brasher]

This is the Hornby LSWR liveried T9 on the Ornesby Hall layout 'Corfe'.

This is a model of Corfe Castle in LSWR days. I like the period costumes. I live in Swanage and I am also modelling Corfe Castle Station as it was after Grouping. Thank you for the lovely pictures.

[Graham_Muz]

A couple of pictures to highlight the differences
 

T9 Class no. 119 from the first batch built was used by both the LSWR, SR and BR(S) for royal train duties and post 1946 was the only member of the class to be painted in lined malachite green. This is a Hornby model.
 

T9 Class No. 729 from the second batch coupled to a 3500 gallon 6 wheel tender. Again this is a Hornby model but repainted.
 

T9 Class no. 312 from the final batch, note the wider cab and splashers and no secondary splasher for the coupling rods. Built from a Wills white metal kit (although Hornby have also produced the wide cab variant.)

 

Further information on the Drummond T9 and his other 4-4-0's can be found on my blog here

[Robin Brasher]

A couple of pictures to highlight the differences

 

t9-119_1.jpg

T9 Class no. 119 from the first batch built was used by both the LSWR, SR and BR(S) for royal train duties and post 1946 was the only member of the class to be painted in lined malachite green. This is a Hornby model.

 

t9-729_1.jpg

T9 Class No. 729 from the second batch coupled to a 3500 gallon 6 wheel tender. Again this is a Hornby model but repainted.

 

t9-312_2.jpg

T9 Class no. 312 from the final batch, note the wider cab and splashers and no secondary splasher for the coupling rods. Built from a Wills white metal kit (although Hornby have also produced the wide cab variant.)

 

Further information on the Drummond T9 and his other 4-4-0's can be found on my blog here

Thank you. I always find your posts and blogs very helpful.

[Robin Brasher]

 

T9 30120 at Swanage Turntable this afternoon. Unfortunately it was not working probably due to a broken injector. You can see from the picture that it is a preserved locomotive because this T9 probably did not visit Swanage in British Railways cycling lion days and because of the position of the small totem. On the preserved engine the totem is mounted centrally. In British Railways days the cycling lion totem was mounted higher up. Please see the top picture on page 50 of The Book of the T9 4-4-0s by Richard Derry.

[Guest]

008.JPG

 

T9 30120 at Swanage Turntable this afternoon. Unfortunately it was not working probably due to a broken injector. You can see from the picture that it is a preserved locomotive because this T9 probably did not visit Swanage in British Railways cycling lion days and because of the position of the small totem. On the preserved engine the totem is mounted centrally. In British Railways days the cycling lion totem was mounted higher up. Please see the top picture on page 50 of The Book of the T9 4-4-0s by Richard Derry.

Great picture! I assume this was taken on Saturday?? As she was in action on Sunday!

Managed to get a few shots of her at the LSWR Weekend: 

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby T9 729 at the Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group layout at Furzebrook Village Hall. It ran well with six Maunsell coaches and I am planning to find out the maximum load. The model represents the T9 in Maunsell green after the E prefix was removed on about 28 April 1932 and before the T9 was repainted in wartime black around 26 June 1943. It was at Nine Elms shed by August 1937 and after 1 July 1940. For further information please see the Book of T9 4-4-0s by Richard Derry pages 196-199.

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby T9 30285 with 71A shed plate hauling a rake of Hornby Maunsell coaches on the Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group's layout. The locomotive was maintained at Eastleigh shed from 6 December 1951. There is a picture of the prototype at Eastleigh on 14 August 1956 in the same livery in the Book of T9 4-4-0s by Richard Derry on page 69. 30285 is similar to 30120 which is currently on the Swanage Railway.