Simon Says

[JSpencer]

20 years ago I had time, patience and excellent eye sight. Today these 3 parts have gone.

 

Modern life has more people loosing 2 hours a day on public transport. We also have these electronic screens that distract us. I must admit when I grew up, most kids my age were into Commodore and Spectrums while I built kits.

 

Today if I had time, I would have patience, not sure about my eyes though. My current set of glasses magnifies one eye a tad more than the other, a real pain as my horizon is no longer level but sloped. After 2 years, I have never overcome that, but to be able to a perfect horizontal and vertical is critical for accurate model making.

[railroadbill]

Trouble with modern hi-tech extremely well detailed r-t-r is you need good eyesight to find all the bits around the layout that have dropped off after you've "plonked" in on the track. 

[JSpencer]

Trouble with modern hi-tech extremely well detailed r-t-r is you need good eyesight to find all the bits around the layout that have dropped off after you've "plonked" in on the track. 

 

And good eyesight to put then back again. With these modern low energy bulbs, I can see sweet FA and need to wait for a moment when we have a bit of sunshine!

 

I remember a book from the 1980s stating that Mainlines Staniers were as good as RTR could get and that a scratch builder would be hard to match them. Huh look at what we have now!

 

I have 5 kit locos awaiting construction, 2 will use RTR chassis, maybe a 3rd too. Am I confident that I can match Bachmann with a Wainwright livery using bow pens? Not really no.....

[railroadbill]

Interesting looking back at old magazine reviews and seeing what was said (Lima vs Hornby Western for instance!)  However, I think that Mainline and also Airfix were the beginning of  more accurate finer scale commercial models. Possibly  newer moulding techniques of the time allowed this.

 

 

This is how my lining techniques deteriorated (or should I say got simpler), going left to right. Haven't used the bow pen for years (afraid I left it in a tatty state) and the rotring isograph pen kept clogging up. Think these got mentioned somewhere on the P2 thread.  This leaves the excellent Modelmaster transfers (also use Pressfix transfers).

 

 

This is the latest and about my limit these days. But it is a hobby.....

 

Simon talks about the Margate factory in his blog - I've seen pictures of Hornby loco bodies having their single boiler band colour put on by a lady with a brush, in the days before they used printing. So they have moved on rather a lot.

[andyman7]

I've seen pictures of Hornby loco bodies having their single boiler band colour put on by a lady with a brush, in the days before they used printing. So they have moved on rather a lot.

They were applied by hand using a bowpen, but that technique obviously couldn't reproduce the actual complex nature of the boiler bands which can now be achieved through tampo printing.

[jjb1970]

Another terrific blog from SK that articulates thoughts I am sure many of us share. I know some see it as nought more than a marketing exercise and write his blog off as such, but for all that it is clearly part of Hornby's marketing exercise I really do find there is a heartfelt and genuine quality to his blog and that whilst he may include some comments designed to put a positive spin on Hornby's activities his reminiscences and obvious love of model trains really are a joy to read.

[robmcg]

Mr. Kohler's latest musing, this time on 'modelling', RTR and the courage to try something more than 'plonking', now versus the 'good old days', has been posted: Railway modelling but perhaps not as we knew it!

 

Simon of course is too polite to say 'plonking'. Andy Y gets a mention.

While Simon writes with affection for the modelling required back in the 70s and 80s to achieve, or have a go at achieving, something satisfying and nice, I detect in his views (I might be wrong) a suggestion that we must accept that quality models comparable to the very best RTR we have recently had will unlikely be viable in the future.

 

Certainly the paint lining and assembly issues of current RTR offerings is a lottery, and unfortunately these issues relate to the very things an amateur can not fix easily; paint lining and warped parts.

 

Also I suspect that many modellers don't have eyesight or dexterity they had when they were teenagers. Which further increases the appeal of buying....

[railroadbill]

They were applied by hand using a bowpen, but that technique obviously couldn't reproduce the actual complex nature of the boiler bands which can now be achieved through tampo printing.

Saw this in a book on the history of Hornby that I got out of the library but taken it back now, had what was a promotional picture in it of the lining being applied by hand, things have moved on!  Trouble with the modern printing techniques on current models is that if you want to renumber or repaint a loco or stock to get the one you might want, it seems a real shame to remove such highly detailed markings.

 

Simon's blog says that he considers that Margate made "rather nice" toy trains :-)

 

Just a thought, but Hornby Dublo 3 rail locos in the 1950s had correct multiple line boiler bands and lining rather than the single line of Margate Hornby in the 1980s, perhaps they used transfers?

[doublecee]

An interesting read, as always. And subsequent comments here always broaden the discussion, giving us a view from both sides of the fence. His posts certainly appeal to the nostalgic in me. Having spent a fair bit of time at Margate these past 2 years, I do sometimes find myself just stealing away a few moments in the warehouse and imagine what it must have been like in the 70's, with all the machines and tools going full tilt. 

 

I always loved the pictures that appeared in the catalogues of the time of staff testing and building product. And I do recall the picture of handlining in one of the catalogues from the late 70's. I'll have to go down to my office and have a dig through to see which issue it was used in.

 

With regards to the modelling question, all I can say is that I am not a modeller. I currently don't have the time or the patience. And I think the learning curve plus the time invested in trial and error would see me lose interest too quickly. The most adventurous I get is applying the detail kits as supplied. So, I for one am grateful for the fact that I don't have to do anything other than add a little weathering when possible.

 

I admire all of you who take modelling to the nth degree, wether you are scratch building from materials or 3d printing, and whilst it may not be as prevalent as it was in the days of old as described by SK, I do think that those skills are still the beating heart of the hobby and should be embraced and encouraged. 

 

Im always happy to see the latest RTR model hit the shops, but its the builders and micro engineers who never cease to amaze and impress me. 

 

As always, and insightful view on the hobby from the other side of the fence.

[darrel]

I have to agree that some of us modellers have been spoiled by what's available ready to run. Maybe we have become lazy. The great British locomotives collection has been a God send for me cheap models that I can hack away at, detail and repaint safe in the knowledge that if I make a mess of it I have only wasted £8.99 not a locomotive worth over £100 I have learned how to use an airbrush because of them.

I even built up the courage to scratch build a wagon.

[stovepipe]

I have a strong suspicion that a great many of the locomotive kits bought 20 to 30 years ago are still sitting around in drawers unmade or only partly made, the skill level and/or tools required being beyond the purchaser. Of course in the visible end of the hobby today we do see amazingly well made kits and scratchbuilds, and all respect is due to those builders, but this is not I suspect where the majority of us are.

 

Certainly no-one should be put off from trying - I'm going to have a go at a first brass kit this winter - but the common issue to be faced is getting the thing finished to a standard acceptable to the builder. The sheer quality of what's available RTR and the standards of scenic, building and rolling stock modelling achieved these days, (utilising in many cases the better quality products we have today), is likely to make the gap between my own efforts appear much wider. Looking back at old modelling magazines from the '70s the standards seemed more attainable then, but in these days our expectations are greater, in pretty much all areas of life.

 

There have been a number of new frontiers in modelling that weren't on the horizon 20-30 years ago. Ok perhaps not modelling in the traditional sense, but we shouldn't discount the amount of creative effort going into these new(er) areas - DCC, automation, wireless control, sound, 3D-printing, shape cutting, cad design, graphic design, 3D scanning, etc. The resources we have at our fingertips, to research our areas of interest, communicate and collaborate with others, and manipulate and print all kinds of information in a huge variety of ways, is unprecedented. Certainly there are different skills today than in the past, but they are not mutually exclusive. It's all modelling of one kind or another isn't it?

[Jol Wilkinson]

 I currently don't have the time or the patience. 

 

Patience;  "the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious".

 

From that definition I would say that patience is largely required by those that rely on others, especially the RTR manufacturers, to provide their modelling wants and needs.

 

Whenever anyone says "you must have patience to do that" if I say my hobby is model making, I prefer to say that it also needs concentration, dedication and a little skill. 

[Andy Hayter]

I have a strong suspicion that a great many of the locomotive kits bought 20 to 30 years ago are still sitting around in drawers unmade or only partly made, the skill level and/or tools required being beyond the purchaser. Of course in the visible end of the hobby today we do see amazingly well made kits and scratchbuilds, and all respect is due to those builders, but this is not I suspect where the majority of us are.

 

 

 

Well I agree that I have several drawers full of unmade kits, but in my case the problem has been lack of available time - a problem now solved, and gradually the drawers are beginning to empty.  As in LNWRmodeller's post above - patience.

[railroadbill]

railroadbill, on 22 Oct 2014 - 14:33, said:

As a final thought on Hornby steam models, the Simon says blog mentions the 3 1/2 gauge Rocket and the 00 live steam locos. However, some 0 gauge course scale locos were revived under the Bassett Lowke label some years ago, and one of these was a live steam mogul.  Not sure but I think the Bassett Lowke name was with Corgi then, and might well have been after the Hornby takeover?  So could this have been a third Hornby group  live steam loco?

Here is the Bassett Lowke model...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191396197053?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Just out of interest I checked and it had gone for £370.  Don't know if that's good or not but very low tech compared to the Hornby oo live steam...

 

Also noticed that the Simon says blog comes up with the Airfix e-mail newsletter as well now.

[Ozexpatriate]

Mr. Kohler's latest blog is out: Double Take!

 

I think that RMweb readers should find it very interesting.

 

In it Simon addresses the hot and contentious topic of model duplication.

 

First though he addresses a concern he clearly had with a very specific comment made here on RMweb, but not I believe in this particular thread.  If anyone doubts that Simon spends a lot of time reading RMweb, doubt no more, and I think the observations he makes are well worth reading for all of us.

 

Simon closes with an open invitation for people to seek him out at the Warley exhibition. Hopefully some of us will have the opportunity to do so.

[it's-er]

Yes, this new 'Simon says' is interesting. When Hornby announced their GER/LNER J15 last December, Bachmann put out a statement, or made us aware, that they had been developing a J15 but would not now proceed in light of Hornby's intended introduction. But I've not heard before of the converse over the D11 Director - that Hornby were intending to announce a D11, but stopped further work when Bachmann announced theirs. That is news to me.

 

John

[railroadbill]

Another entertaining read.  Find it interesting to look back into the past and be told the reasons why certain things happened, the 2 Kings or HSTs being produced, for instance, by someone who was deeply involved at the time. Also that the Hornby 08 was produced although there was already a Bachmann one because Hornby is a complete railway system and needed key items available within the brand.

 

Very good, I keep looking forward to Simon's writings.

[The Stationmaster]

An excellent blog from him and very interesting (but no mention of the most recent possible duplications (which haven't happened in at least one case) and that perhaps helps to show the reality of his relationship with Hornby - just as he says it is.  (and I agree with his views about the 'King' and the D10XX, the LIma versions definitely 'caught' their subject far more effectively).

[JSpencer]

Interesting blog,

 

One error though, Bachmann did just upgrade their BR 4MT, they actually tooled up an entirely new model.

[Ozexpatriate]

That Simon took such efforts to apologize for his October 31 blog being published the following Monday, I had anticipated a November 28 blog, but it has not appeared. Perhaps we'll see one on Monday, not that there's any rush mind you.

[Free At Last]

Is THIS not it?

[Andy Y]

For anyone who doubts that Simon is completely unfettered whilst writing his column I think this should remove all doubt.

 

 

 

I was aware that Hornby had in their plans a Class 71 and an Adams Radial but I had no idea that they were going to announce both at this years ‘Warley’. This was a tremendous break from tradition and even more so when they announced the LMS Period 3 Suburban coaches, as well as the 21T Hopper and the LMS Horse Box! From my point of view I can just about understand the rationale of releasing information in respect of the two locomotives but I am a little bewildered as to why the rolling stock.

 

I happen to agree with this perspective as even just one loco announcement would have been a break with convention and would have probably generated as much newsfill accompanied by a 'more to come on 17th December' approach. The poor old rolling stock gets drowned by the weight of loco-centric froth. It starts to create an expectation that Hornby would then announce an equal volume of newsworthy content at a future Warley which for whatever reason may not be practical.

[The Stationmaster]

For anyone who doubts that Simon is completely unfettered whilst writing his column I think this should remove all doubt.

 

 

I happen to agree with this perspective as even just one loco announcement would have been a break with convention and would have probably generated as much newsfill accompanied by a 'more to come on 17th December' approach. The poor old rolling stock gets drowned by the weight of loco-centric froth. It starts to create an expectation that Hornby would then announce an equal volume of newsworthy content at a future Warley which for whatever reason may not be practical.

While I agree with that I think the 'new brooms' might also see Warley in a different light as being well stocked with members of their market and thus an opportunity to go straight to the end consumer where he can be found in abundance.  That could well of course diminish the year end 'froth fest' and its impact so it could be a double edged sword.

 

One thing it ought to do is however keep Hornby's name as much in the headlines as anyone else announcing at Warley and it will probably do that in the magazines, but interestingly it doesn't for various reasons seem to have had that effect on here (possibly because of what was announced?).  Also of course this year there was an element of being 'jumped' by various duplicate announcements and they might have thought it a good idea to respond to those and show just how advanced they already were on those things as well as providing something more (i.e. the rolling stock) as well to show they were still doing their own thinking about the market and bringing forward new developments.

 

Let's not forget that Hornby's show presence is now much reduced - hence perhaps their reasoning to make it a bit more special when they are there?   Also the marketing 'new broom' might still be learning about their market and watching how other companies approach it?

[Ian Hargrave]

Talking of the Hornby presence at the Warley Show,one wonders what brought about the reversal of policy not to attend shows.

[Dunsignalling]

For anyone who doubts that Simon is completely unfettered whilst writing his column I think this should remove all doubt.

 

 

I happen to agree with this perspective as even just one loco announcement would have been a break with convention and would have probably generated as much newsfill accompanied by a 'more to come on 17th December' approach. The poor old rolling stock gets drowned by the weight of loco-centric froth. It starts to create an expectation that Hornby would then announce an equal volume of newsworthy content at a future Warley which for whatever reason may not be practical.

This is pure supposition, but one possible reason for the rolling stock announcement is that someone at Hornby knows or suspects that the items in question may be under development elsewhere and doesn't want Hornby to be the second to announce them as they were with the Radial and Class 71.

 

For the same reason, I don't think any of the items Hornby are holding back to announce on Dec.17th will duplicate anything else we already know about.

 

Hornby still present themselves as the market leader in OO trains and, as such, the sensible course would be to reveal everything that might suggest they are playing catch-up in one go.

 

John