Simon Says

[Legend]

Interesting thoughts on the Hornby Catalogue. Actually I think the best ones are pre Simon. I'm thinking 74 and 80 in particular. Actually instead of good bad and ugly I'd call the recent one Bland , bland and bland. Yes high quality paper, very polished production, I'm sure the marketers are going on about the continuity between catalogue illustration and that of front of box on model. I'm sure they'll further say thing like enhancing the brand........but the end result for me is boring. All these side views!

 

So how about something completely different?

 

A large layout as centrepiece of catalogue to both inspire youngsters and more experienced modellers , who will probably go for the nostalgia.

 

Pictures of models on the layout. More three quarter views .

 

The illustrations should be accurate and represent what will actually be produced. There should be full description proof read so no mistakes. Too many times locos appear in catalogue but turn out quite different. 28xx and Hall spring to mind. Still not certain what we are getting in the Hall.

 

Many of us 50 something's remember the catalogues of 60s and 70s and the hours we spent pouring over them. Time to tap into that nostalgia factor whilst appealing to newer modellers. Thought we might get something new this year, but looks like maybe not!

[Legend]

Talking of the Hornby presence at the Warley Show,one wonders what brought about the reversal of policy not to attend shows.

Might be more selective. Note they are not mentioned in model rail Scotland. Maybe that ones too far?

[doublecee]

Gently steering the conversation away from from stuff that's been talked to death on two other threads, its great to get an insight into what goes into the annual publication. 

I think my overall faves are 1980 and 1981's Ticket to Ride. At 10 years of age and 11 respectively, they blew me away. 

 

Ive collected every catalogue since 76, even when I wasnt hobbying (1985 - 2012). Some were sought and bought, some were just given, as if being considered a gentle nudge from loved ones to get back into it.

 

I am in full agreement about the one that SK deems as the Ugly one. It was pretty horrid looking, but they made up for it in subsequent years. Like many of you, I do look forward to seeing what this years issue will bring... 

 

The link to his post works, however it wasnt showing up in his Blog Index. I deleted all cookies and then it appeared. So that may explain why you may not be able to see it.

[jjb1970]

I find it more than a little perplexing that Hornby corporate comms often seem to be poor verging on dire yet SK's blog is one of the best examples of a manufacturer (or a consultant on a manufacturer web site) communicating with customers and an object lesson in what a blog should be. I am hoping that the recent issues with Exeter may give them a kick up the pants and it was nice to see them issue an apology but they could do an awful lot worse than to make SK their global communications director or whatever the correct title might be.

[Ian Hargrave]

I find it more than a little perplexing that Hornby corporate comms often seem to be poor verging on dire yet SK's blog is one of the best examples of a manufacturer (or a consultant on a manufacturer web site) communicating with customers and an object lesson in what a blog should be. I am hoping that the recent issues with Exeter may give them a kick up the pants and it was nice to see them issue an apology but they could do an awful lot worse than to make SK their global communications director or whatever the correct title might be.

I get the impression he's happy just as he is right now. They do need a firmer guiding hand,though.

[andyman7]

I'll second 1980 and 1981 as being the best, helped by that enormous layout built to showcase the product range. Ironically, the track plan for the layout revealed it would have been rather awkward and illogical to operate - but of course it wasn't really designed for running, but rather a way to cram just about every product in!

Simon refers to the 1985 catalogue being one of the rarer ones despite its shortcomings - but that is simply down to the fact that as a semi-reprint of the previous year's offering coupled with the low point being reached in sales at that point, there simply are't that many about. The 1985 Scalextric catalogue is also quite hard to find!

[Unknown Warrior]

For anyone who doubts that Simon is completely unfettered whilst writing his column I think this should remove all doubt.

 

I happen to agree with this perspective as even just one loco announcement would have been a break with convention and would have probably generated as much newsfill accompanied by a 'more to come on 17th December' approach. The poor old rolling stock gets drowned by the weight of loco-centric froth. It starts to create an expectation that Hornby would then announce an equal volume of newsworthy content at a future Warley which for whatever reason may not be practical.

Normally the announcement of the Radial would have grabbed my attention, but Hornby had already been upstaged by Oxfordrail. The most important thing for me was Hornby remembering that there was a major railway company called the London, Midland and Scottish! Yes I do recall that there was A LMS CCT last year, but that was the first new LMS release from Hornby since 2007!

 

For me the announcement of the LMS Suburbans was the top news. I only hope that a push pull set wil be added to the lineup! The horse box and hopper wagon were an added bonus!

[Robin Brasher]

I have regularly purchased the Tri-ang, Tri-ang Hornby and Hornby catalogues since about 1957 but the 2014 catalogue is the first year that I have not bought either a Hornby or a Bachmann catalogue.  This is because it is taking two years for many items to appear after they have been announced with the NRM M7, and the GNR N2 being examples and I am considering buying catalogues every two years. I have not seen the 2014 catalogue but I assume that the Drummond 700s would just be pictures of the prototypes and the models would come out in 2015 by which time there would be pictures of the models in the catalogues.

 

I did not think Hornby had much idea of the correct coaches for their locomotives when I saw in their 2012 catalogue that suitable rolling stock for an LNER Commonwealth of Australia was BR(Ex-LMS) coaches and BR (Ex-LMS) coaches for Merlin and Coronach which were BR late crest (Ex-LNER engines).  I pointed this out on this site and was reported to the administrator by someone who said that Coronach operated from Carlisle and usually hauled Ex-LMS coaches and the site could be sued for libel for having my statement there. I was duly reprimanded by the administrator. Perhaps Hornby had done more research on suitable coaches for Coronach in their catalogue than I had given them credit for. 

 

I thought Hornby-Dublo had made the same mistake by pairing a  BR (Ex-LNER) late crest Mallard with crimson and cream BR (Ex-LMS) coaches in a train set in their 1958 catalogue but perhaps they were right as well.

[Ozexpatriate]

Is THIS not it?

Thank you for the link.

 

It wasn't posted at the usual time when I looked late on Friday night my time (early Saturday GMT). I had clicked on the "Simon Says" link on the Hornby front page. This works now.

 

I thought this was a fascinating reminisce by Mr. Kohler and I look forward to more of Simon's remembrances like this.

 

I think my overall faves are 1980 and 1981's Ticket to Ride. At 10 years of age and 11 respectively, they blew me away.

I'll second 1980 and 1981 as being the best, helped by that enormous layout built to showcase the product range.

The 1981 "Ticket to Ride" catalogue is without a doubt my favourite.

[Ozexpatriate]

I did not think Hornby had much idea of the correct coaches for their locomotives when I saw in their 2012 catalogue that suitable rolling stock for an LNER Commonwealth of Australia was BR(Ex-LMS) coaches and BR (Ex-LMS) coaches for Merlin and Coronach which were BR late crest (Ex-LNER engines).  I pointed this out on this site and was reported to the administrator by someone who said that Coronach operated from Carlisle and usually hauled Ex-LMS coaches and the site could be sued for libel for having my statement there. I was duly reprimanded by the administrator. Perhaps Hornby had done more research on suitable coaches for Coronach in their catalogue than I had given them credit for. 

 

I thought Hornby-Dublo had made the same mistake by pairing a  BR (Ex-LNER) late crest Mallard with crimson and cream BR (Ex-LMS) coaches in a train set in their 1958 catalogue but perhaps they were right as well.

Commonwealth of Australia was consistently listed in the Hornby catalogue as "BR" despite it depicting the chrome 4491 and LNER lettering and liveried in garter blue as it entered service in 1937. It hardly seems libelous to suggest that the Hornby catalogue might contain factual errors when it demonstrably doesn't even represent some of their products very accurately.

 

The original release of the new Schools tooling was fraught with changes to running numbers, names and details in multiple catalogues.

 

I distinctly remember a catalogue (I can't remember which one) that paired BR coaches with a "GWR" liveried 14xx. Now of course that 'did' happen in BR days with GWR equipment that was not repainted but it is misleading to suggest this is 'normal' to a novice.

 

 

A large layout as centrepiece of catalogue to both inspire youngsters and more experienced modellers , who will probably go for the nostalgia. ...

So long as the layout photographs do not feature a gent relaxing at home with his tie still on and son in Sunday best.

 

The current catalogues do contain a lot of diorama shots, but there's no 'how to build a layout' section like there used to be in the old days.

 

Many of us 50 something's remember the catalogues of 60s and 70s and the hours we spent pouring over them. Time to tap into that nostalgia factor whilst appealing to newer modellers. Thought we might get something new this year, but looks like maybe not!

I miss the potted histories that used to be published in the catalogue, not that I need them for myself*, but as a youngster poring over the catalogues was a way of learning about the history of the railways and contributed to my interest in the grouping period.

 

* Hopefully though you never know.

[Dunsignalling]

I have regularly purchased the Tri-ang, Tri-ang Hornby and Hornby catalogues since about 1957 but the 2014 catalogue is the first year that I have not bought either a Hornby or a Bachmann catalogue.  This is because it is taking two years for many items to appear after they have been announced with the NRM M7, and the GNR N2 being examples and I am considering buying catalogues every two years. I have not seen the 2014 catalogue but I assume that the Drummond 700s would just be pictures of the prototypes and the models would come out in 2015 by which time there would be pictures of the models in the catalogues.

 

I did not think Hornby had much idea of the correct coaches for their locomotives when I saw in their 2012 catalogue that suitable rolling stock for an LNER Commonwealth of Australia was BR(Ex-LMS) coaches and BR (Ex-LMS) coaches for Merlin and Coronach which were BR late crest (Ex-LNER engines).  I pointed this out on this site and was reported to the administrator by someone who said that Coronach operated from Carlisle and usually hauled Ex-LMS coaches and the site could be sued for libel for having my statement there. I was duly reprimanded by the administrator. Perhaps Hornby had done more research on suitable coaches for Coronach in their catalogue than I had given them credit for. 

 

I thought Hornby-Dublo had made the same mistake by pairing a  BR (Ex-LNER) late crest Mallard with crimson and cream BR (Ex-LMS) coaches in a train set in their 1958 catalogue but perhaps they were right as well.

I've stopped buying catalogues altogether - you can get a far more accurate picture of what Hornby, Bachmann et al are producing (and when) by going on-line.

 

I find Hornby's computer generated images of models that do not yet exist particularly tiresome, especially when they differ significantly from the model that finally emerges.

 

John

[Paddy]

I used to buy the Hornby catalogues but found the recent ones were nothing more than list of the models to be made available. I know this is the purpose of a catalogue but for £8 I want to see more inspiration, dioramas etc. as per the older ones. The current content of the catalogue could be delivered in a much cheaper format or even free online.

 

No doubt the catalogue generates a healthy revenue for Hornby but they need to try harder to justify the purchase price IMHO.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Paddy

[Robin Brasher]

I don't think that there is much point in putting a model in a catalogue until the model has reached the engineering prototype stage because it is unlikely to be produced in that year. For instance the Hornby 700s in the 2014 Hornby Catalogue will not be available until 2015 at the earliest.

[papagolfjuliet]

Interesting thoughts on the Hornby Catalogue. Actually I think the best ones are pre Simon. I'm thinking 74 and 80 in particular. Actually instead of good bad and ugly I'd call the recent one Bland , bland and bland. Yes high quality paper, very polished production, I'm sure the marketers are going on about the continuity between catalogue illustration and that of front of box on model. I'm sure they'll further say thing like enhancing the brand........but the end result for me is boring. All these side views!

 

So how about something completely different?

 

A large layout as centrepiece of catalogue to both inspire youngsters and more experienced modellers , who will probably go for the nostalgia.

 

Pictures of models on the layout. More three quarter views .

 

The illustrations should be accurate and represent what will actually be produced. There should be full description proof read so no mistakes. Too many times locos appear in catalogue but turn out quite different. 28xx and Hall spring to mind. Still not certain what we are getting in the Hall.

 

Many of us 50 something's remember the catalogues of 60s and 70s and the hours we spent pouring over them. Time to tap into that nostalgia factor whilst appealing to newer modellers. Thought we might get something new this year, but looks like maybe not!

 

Couldn't agree more, although for my money the '81 "Ticket to Ride" catalogue was the best of the lot. That year's Scalextric catalogue was also a thing of beauty; I still own a copy, and I haven't bothered with Scalextric for thirty years.

[Robin Brasher]

One of my favourite pictures was the Diamond Jubilee set on page 5 of the Hornby 58th edition catalogue of 2012. Later that year Princess Elizabeth was due to take a special to Swanage and I asked Hornby for permission to reproduce the picture on an Isle of Purbeck Model Railway poster.  Hornby gave me permission and sent me an image to use without the writing.  I put the posters on the notice boards on all the Swanage Railway stations and in lots of shop windows in Swanage. I waited at Harmans Cross to take a picture of the prototype but Princess Elizabeth failed and Bittern disguised as LNER blue Dominion of New Zealand took its place.

[Oakydoke]

From Simon Say's....

 

".....If the tradition is changing then what of the annual Hornby catalogue, something that is eagerly anticipated and collected by so many enthusiasts each year? Will the annual catalogue be a thing of the past, filed away under ‘Out of date and old fashioned’? Could it be that such a tradition would morph into being a collection of virtual pages on a virtual Hornby site? Nothing tangible but just a digital imitation of what in the past was a collectable Hornby item in itself. Personally I do not believe that will happen just yet but if it did what a shame because the production of every Hornby catalogue has its own hidden story known to only a very select few."

Does this nostalgia piece about the annual catalogue, with the preamble I've quoted above, suggest that a break in tradition is on the cards, or has been mooted in Margate?

[Hilux5972]

I certainly hope not. I so enjoy opening the new catalogue every year and reading through it time after time. There's something about the smell of a fresh page that I can't resist.

[Forester]

From Simon Say's....

 

 

Does this nostalgia piece about the annual catalogue, with the preamble I've quoted above, suggest that a break in tradition is on the cards, or has been mooted in Margate?

 

Hornby reduced the price of the 2014 catalogue from £8.00 to 50p on Black Friday and didn't sell them all. That suggests a break with tradition may already have occurred.

[stewartingram]

Personally, I don't see the point of a catalogue nowadays, and I certainly don't see the point of buying one! What is wrong with the internet web page? Up-to-date (or at least, as much as they update it, certainly better than the printed copy). No storage space needed either.

I don't even bother with the likes of an Argos catalogue any more......

 

Stewart

[JSpencer]

1980s catalogue has the strongest nostalgia for me. Me and my dad nearly built the Layout contained there in too.

 

I can understand Simon's concern about the 17th December announcement . Bachmann had announced previously the Brighton Atlantic, while keeping the NRM Atlantic under wraps for a few more weeks. This lead to the main 25th announcement being rather empty handed.

 

Accepting that Hornby had no choice to announce the duplicates at Warley, I can understand Simon's concern about announcing new coaches and wagons. On the other hand, pre wetting everyone's appetite with test samples of new products is good I think as it is a show whereby others are doing the same. December 17th will provide the full program and even if there are no additional new locos, I don't think I will be disappointed.

 

Is the catalogue dead? Not yet but the world is changing and resting in tradition can sometimes be a killer. Hornby also still do much CAD work in the UK. If people doing the Cads are train buffs, there is much hope yet. Let us not devalue them.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I don't think Simon would have mentioned or hinted the possibility of the catalogue being discontinued, if it hasn't already been considered by Hornby.

 

With regard to the annual Christmas announcement, is it possible that the model press are now seen as much less influential as a marketing vehicle and that the usual press only event and the resulting embargo charade, is not the most effective way of creating interest or a buzz. Witness the internet forum activity around that time. In comparison, magazines coming out weeks later are a bit "last weeks news".

 

The same goes for the timing. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Day, does it matter any more?

There might be better ways to release the news.

 

.

[Ozexpatriate]

With regard to the annual Christmas announcement, is it possible that the model press ...  is not the most effective way of creating interest or a buzz. Witness the internet forum activity around that time. In comparison, magazines coming out weeks later are a bit "last weeks news".

I don't think Simon was talking about the trade press when he says:

I cannot help thinking that to lose the Hornby pre Christmas announcements would disappoint many who look forward to the excitement and expectation associated with such an annual occurrence.

I think he is talking about the internet forum activity like we do.

 

The same goes for the timing. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Day, does it matter any more?

There might be better ways to release the news.

Current timing is pure pragmatism. December 17 occurs well before the holiday shutdown. With New Year's and Christmas Eve announcements they had to have staff flip the switch on the website during their holiday. Plus the earlier announcement does seem to mitigate embargo issues, though this year, given Warley, that's not such a big concern.

 

Doubtless Hornby has something left to announce, but clearly a big part of their programme for 2014/15 was announced at Warley in the 'clone war'.

[Legend]

Having collected everyone since 1965 and re acquired ones I'd managed to butcher over time , I think it would be a shame for the catalogue to disappear completely, although I agree the internet is the best place for news. I think it does need some new inspiration , however, as previously posted, the current versions are very professional but bland and instantly forgettable. I mean can you honestly distinguish one from the other over the last 5 to 8 years? Also forget 200 pages, a 64 pager like the good old versions containing accurate information would be a good publication. Many people do use them as a reference point , so it would be a shame to lose it.

[Ozexpatriate]

More catalogue musings from Mr. Kohler are now available: "Catalogue of reasons"

 

I've not read it yet, but it's colourful and looks interesting.

 

EDIT:

 

Now having read it, I enjoyed this blog. In it Simon responds directly to comments made here (and perhaps elsewhere) on many aspects of the catalogue, including side-on images, the use of Photoshop and what a catalogue should be.

 

I absolutely agree with Simon's wish that  "I would hope of these seasoned modellers is that they could try and imagine as if they are seeing a Hornby catalogue for the very first time and from a layman’s or even a child’s point of view". Honestly I still do! I've not forgotten how that feels.

 

I think that idea is the source of several comments suggesting that the catalogue should contain layouts*, 'how to' sections and more in the way of potted histories of the railway. None of these items are relevant to "seasoned modellers", but add greatly to the appeal for a newcomer to the hobby to fuel (as Simon says) the "excitement and anticipation that unfolded for them as they turned the pages of their very first Hornby catalogue".

 

* Not exhibition layouts, but the kind of layouts people can build purely with Hornby products.

 

Side-on photographs don't trouble me. Two things (perhaps three, depending on how you count them) frustrate me about the current catalogue (on-line and in print):

 

1. Livery descriptions

( i ) They are frequently too vague when no 'Photoshopped' image has been prepared and a sepia toned photograph from 'life' is used. Examples such as "GWR green" are not specific enough for 'seasoned modellers'. We really care about such details.

( ii ) They are sometimes wrong. This is perfectly acceptable in the printed copy if changes to the product are made post production of the catalogue, It is not acceptable in the on-line catalogue which can be changed at any time. (It happened at least three times in 2014 when product introductions did not match what was showing in the on-line shop when new stock arrived.)

 

2. Misleading recommendations for which coaches go with which locomotives or time periods

Personally I think including such recommendations for which coaches/wagons 'go' with which locomotives is a terrific idea for the newcomer to the hobby and very much in spirit of what Simon says when he speaks of youngsters with their very first Hornby catalogue. It frustrates me when such recommendations are wrong, or represent a corner case that may have existed in real life (like recommending crimson and cream BR coaches with a GWR liveried 14xx) but doesn't properly inform a newcomer to the hobby.

 

When Hornby don't make suitable coaches for a locomotive, such recommendations should not be made. 

 

Having said that I understand that getting all the details right is hard, and if the author and proof-reader happens to be the same person, inadvertent mistakes will certainly happen. We all do such things all the time in our posts here and this is the primary reason why virtually every one of my posts here gets edited after the first post.

 

I'd like to thank Simon for another sincere and interesting blog post.

[JSpencer]

It is true as a kid I was inspired by the wide varity of locos and liveries on that layout in 1980s catalogue.

 

It was not my first though, I had 2 others before then.

 

This of course poses a problem. The range is much more vast today, and the bulk is super detailed high priced items. People returning to the hobby looking for influence will not be bothered by that. A friend of mine has returned to railways after 20 years, cannot believe the quality and started directly with P4!

 

But kids, and other newcomers are more likely to be shocked by the prices and quickly decide it is out of reach before getting to the railroad items towards the end.

 

How can we ensure that it remains a peoples hobby just as much as serious modelers?