RMweb Premium James Makin Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the update Dave, I'd thought I read it was the scanning part that was holding you back, or is it in addition to the livery copyright issues? I wonder if there would ever be a sizeable appetite for those interested in an unpainted Class 59 (which would naturally superseed all before it) to paint themselves available sooner (or even just a great chassis to mate with a Lima body) before the a full-fat DJM painted example could arrive in a more realistic three/four/five years time once you've got the full range of permissions, development etc? Naturally you'd want commitment from a large number of customers possibly pre-ordering (easier said than done) but if it's just the Aggregate Industries livery holding you up then I (naively) wonder if there's another way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the update Dave, I'd thought I read it was the scanning part that was holding you back, or is it in addition to the livery copyright issues? I wonder if there would ever be a sizeable appetite for those interested in an unpainted Class 59 (which would naturally superseed all before it) to paint themselves available sooner (or even just a great chassis to mate with a Lima body) before the a full-fat DJM painted example could arrive in a more realistic three/four/five years time once you've got the full range of permissions, development etc? Naturally you'd want commitment from a large number of customers possibly pre-ordering (easier said than done) but if it's just the Aggregate Industries livery holding you up then I (naively) wonder if there's another way! Well the problem is that all the licences held by A.I. Are the bread and butter liverys at the moment. Basic design started on both gauges models, but until we can secure the missing permissions, I don't know of anyone who would put up £120k + on a model that would take a huge time to pay back, if ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well the problem is that all the licences held by A.I. Are the bread and butter liverys at the moment. Basic design started on both gauges models, but until we can secure the missing permissions, I don't know of anyone who would put up £120k + on a model that would take a huge time to pay back, if ever. Had you been granted permission before the parent company change happened or do you normally start designing the models before you get all permissions Dave? Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 In this case, I started before, thinking it would be a matter of simply asking. Indeed, I was informed that others didn't even bother doing that, so I ummed and arrrrd a bit and decided discretion was the better part etc etc, and asked. Unfortunately I had started work on the models, but I learned a valuable lesson, which I won't repeat again, even if it means not doing the loco ( any loco). Luckily for me, everyone is in the same boat on a class 59 at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2015 Dave Arc are owned by Hanson (which is owned by Heidelberg Cement). FY is owned by AI (which is owned by Holcim). Lafarge are competitors to both, but trying to merge with Holcim (not a takeover). So as a minimum Arc/Hanson should be open to discussions. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Whilst I wish DJM every success, I am somewhat glad this project is on hold. My wallet could do with a rest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Dave, Do you have the permission for the National Power Livery sorted out? National Power are now owned by RWE (German Company) That's the livery I'm waiting for. Regards, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Disappointing to read but presume the risk is to great with a potential limited livery release, I was so looking forward to this model, I wonder if that is why Bachmann never pursued it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Dave Any chance of some CAD images please? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2015 Dave Any chance of some CAD images please? Pete According to Dave's last status update, he's on holiday until the 16th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Dave Any chance of some CAD images please? Pete Yes would really love to see some CAD images of this model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Give the guy a break! He's already stated that the development work he had completed - before the realisation that lack of livery permissions was a critical road block - was not in a viewable condition. He has given a timescale from the livery owners for resuming negotiation to secure permissions, without which permissions he has made it very clear no-one would risk any money on proceeding with this project. He has a very full portfolio of other models in active development demanding attention. The only sensible thing to do in this circumstance is to cease work on the class 59 completely and 'park it'. (That's my opinion, but ask yourself: if it was my own business and money at risk would I spend a moment of time or any money on a project which cannot proceed at the moment, when I have plenty of other work with pay back potential underway keeping me 100% occupied? Keep in mind too that the livery owners may not want to play, and there are no guarantees that they ever will be. However disappointing this may be to folks wanting a new class 59 model, 'someone else' outside the model making trade effectively holds the keys to this development proceeding... FWIW, if he can bring this off I'll have one. I like heavy freight, and one of these on a dusty train of hoppers will look very handsome.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Give the guy a break! Sorry if I've read your post in the wrong context. But you seem to make it look like Pete & I have been pestering Dave for images. Dave had stated that CAD work had already begun on the Class 59's at the start of the post. I don't see any harm in Pete just asking for an update and me agreeing to Pete's post. It had nothing to do with the liveries.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Will we get to see CAD images soon? (since you stated they are already in development) As soon as I have something tangible and viewable I'll post here. ... Hope this helps, but if not, please keep checking the 'timeline' page of my web site to look for individual model progress. Www.djmodels.co.uk ...Like the N gauge one the OO class 59 is temporarily on hold....The new company ( if the takeover goes through) have asked me to wait 6 months before re approaching them,... Well the problem is that all the licences held by A.I. Are the bread and butter liverys at the moment. Basic design started on both gauges models, but until we can secure the missing permissions, I don't know of anyone who would put up £120k + on a model that would take a huge time to pay back, if ever. There's the information from the thread. He had started work. Since he hasn't posted CAD views here, presumably the project hadn't advanced far enough to show something Dave considers 'tangible and viewable' before the project was placed on hold, awaiting what he sees as the commercially vital livery permissions which the owners have requested he re-approach them for in 6 months time: which could be the latter half of July 2015. Until then, as I read it, 'nothing to see here'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I don't need a 59, but it's fascinating to see. The process and problems behind a model release Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi Tony, Like the N gauge one the OO class 59 is temporarily on hold. ARC, Bardon, Yeoman, Mendip and versions thereof come under the Aggregates Industries banner. No manufacturer currently has a licence to produce these liveries until........ Unfortunately no one at A.I. Wants to say yes, because they are in the middle of the takeover, and no one at what will then be the parent company wants to say anything until they have their feet under the table and things have settled down. Model railways therefore come way down on their list. Its a very interesting takeover, appearing as if the respective UK brands (Tarmac and AI) within the bigger holding brands are appearing to change. With LaFarge-Holcim recently agreeing to sell the Tarmac UK group to CRH plc of Ireland it appears that AI shall remain in the enlarged LaFarge-Holcim, subject to satisfied competition regulators, very recently Anglo American sold their 50% stake in Tarmac-LaFarge. Surprised though that AI is unwilling to sign off the license, seeing as now it is confirmed they are to remain in LaFarge-Holcim, they are still giving me and others in academic access to their sites - as well as they have just signed a £5 million deal with GBRf and re-liveried a 66 (66711). I guess I am asking, have your sources been keen for you to re-approach them? Would very much like an AI 59 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Its a very interesting takeover, appearing as if the respective UK brands (Tarmac and AI) within the bigger holding brands are appearing to change. With LaFarge-Holcim recently agreeing to sell the Tarmac UK group to CRH plc of Ireland it appears that AI shall remain in the enlarged LaFarge-Holcim, subject to satisfied competition regulators, very recently Anglo American sold their 50% stake in Tarmac-LaFarge. Surprised though that AI is unwilling to sign off the license, seeing as now it is confirmed they are to remain in LaFarge-Holcim, they are still giving me and others in academic access to their sites - as well as they have just signed a £5 million deal with GBRf and re-liveried a 66 (66711). I guess I am asking, have your sources been keen for you to re-approach them? Would very much like an AI 59 Hi mate, All permissions now in place except 1 that has 2 liveries to 'yay or 'nay' and I have permission to laser scan one at my convenience whenever I wish ( on 48 hours notice). Once I get the last permission ( who for now will remain nameless) I'll get right on with the scanning, and use my photo surveys of the 0/1 and 2''s to polish the edges up and produce something tangible on here. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCML100 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't need a 59 but it 100% needs an upgrade on the current Hornby offering and wish all the best for Dave & DJ Models. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 That's great news Dave! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Anything should be better than the Hornby model as they couldn't even get the right light/body unit for the liveries they applied. It will be great to have a modern spec model with lights, detail, possibility of sound and guts, cant wait will have to start saving for a couple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 A decent, well DJM standard Class 59.....oh yes please ! I assume DB are being funny with their license......National Power only then for the /2 ? Great Western Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 ... It will be great to have a modern spec model with lights, detail, possibility of sound and guts, ... Well that caught my eye! All I can think of is the entrails of various wildlife splattered across the front after a long fast run. Alternative explanation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Great news that AI is sorted, looking forward to watching this one develop and putting in an order once a livery I fancy pop's up. All the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCClark Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hi Dave Brilliant news as I have three on order and was getting concerned. We are all desperate to see you succeed in your new venture and look forward to some brilliant products Regards John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Excellent bit of news Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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