Richard Pike Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Hi Dave, Have you considered 59003 in GBRf livery, I am sure that would be a popular seller and another livery option to keep the project on track if still having issues with permissions on your original proposed liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted May 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 3, 2015 I'm looking forward to this one, remarkably this is just about the last mainline diesel that hasn't been done to modern standards. Once DJM bring this out then it is going to be hard for anybody to do much in the way of mainline diesel locomotives without duplicating models already done well by somebody else. Which is quite amazing really, even most of the one off prototypes and demonstrators have been done. However, there are plenty of MU trains for DJM and others to have a look at...and a good 86 or 87 would be very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm looking forward to this one, remarkably this is just about the last mainline diesel that hasn't been done to modern standards. Once DJM bring this out then it is going to be hard for anybody to do much in the way of mainline diesel locomotives without duplicating models already done well by somebody else. Which is quite amazing really, even most of the one off prototypes and demonstrators have been done. However, there are plenty of MU trains for DJM and others to have a look at...and a good 86 or 87 would be very nice. I guess it depends on ones definition of done well. There is a lack of at least one quality mainline diesel model that has me rethinking my ideas. -------- [edited to add - I shouldn't have posted this, as this sort of discussion has nothing to do with the DJM Class 59, if people feel it is a discussion that should occur then I will consider participating elsewhere, but not here] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted May 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2015 Some could be improved for sure and perhaps the one that does look below par is the Bachmann 25. I also think the Bachmann 55 could be improved. Some of the various Heljan models could be improved but in many cases are so niche it is unlikely there would be enough demand to do another RTR model I think. The problem for manufacturers interested in diesels is that to use the diminishing returns analogy most existing tooling and mechanisms are now good enough that even if better tooling is produced I think many will not rush to replace the models they already have and the potential investment returns must be affected. Obviously manufactuers will do stuff already done and in some cases either the ongoing demand will be high enough for this not to matter or companies will see it as an essential part of their range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Reading the J94 page, I never realised that DJModels is funded on a policy of one model pays for the next. Sorry for coming late to that! That is an impressive way to use your own home to fund your passion. Hats off to you. But, considering how long a certain Pacer made by another manufacturer took and how much longer we shall wait for their next product under a similar policy...I start to wonder... Where in the line up is the Class 59 in financial approval between the J94 steam locomotive, the Raven Q6 steam locomotive and the Hudswell Clarke 24t locomotive? Though I am in no rush to see the Class 59, nor is the livery I want (AI Agg. Silver and GBRf) expected (yet until perhaps a limited edition?), I do wonder where it fits into the scheme of manufacturing. As it looks like it takes at a minimum two years to bring a model to the market and perhaps another to get a financial return to pay for more tooling at £70k a pop. Thus if the Class 59 is 4th on the list we are looking into the 2020s? Of course I have not counted the N and O gauge toolings which no doubt add into the one model pays for the next. I hope I am wrong, but, if I am not, I shall still have one! It would just be nice to know whether the Class 59 is a medium term plan or long term? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 HI 159220 If you have something to say about Realtrack why not post on our part. Cant think what we have said we would do but didnt !!! yes things to longer than we thought but thats life. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 HI 159220 If you have something to say about Realtrack why not post on our part. Cant think what we have said we would do but didnt !!! yes things to longer than we thought but thats life. Regards Arran I think that for their first model, Realtrack did fantastically well and produced a very worthy model of the year. Time is irrelevant for such quality I think. As to the 59, it fits in there somewhere, it's just a shame I'm still being held up by 1 crucial licence holder that holds 2 livery / logo licences. This is crucial to get the model rolling, without that I'm not spending out on laser scanning of the real thing as to do so would be folly. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted May 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2015 But, considering how long a certain Pacer made by another manufacturer took and how much longer we shall wait for their next product under a similar policy...I start to wonder... Not sure what you mean about the time delay? Didn't think there was a delay - it was held back for some small things to be corrected. Would you rather it had come sooner but been wrong? You could always decide to try this for yourself! If you have a house - you have a way to secure the funding Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 So 4 years on another manufacturers Pacer? with 4 Versions Class 144, 4 Versions Class 143, 2 Seating layouts, 4 different colours of seats, DCC Fitted, Sound Fitted, Passengers Fitted. Yes it took over 4 years! Dave at DJM is trying to bring out products that hopefully the Big Boys won't! this with the Chinese takes time. Is it only DJM & the Pacer Manufacture who have had delays!!!! If it is just them two I would agree but it seems 'EVERYONE' has delays including another company who announced Mk2 coaches a long time ago. Cut Dave some slack OR do some models your self, I will pass on the Chinese phone number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Im a little confused, as now Dapols facebook page says they have scanned a class 59 - who's doing what ??? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Im a little confused, as now Dapols facebook page says they have scanned a class 59 - who's doing what ??? Jon Dapol initially announced a N gauge Class 59. DJM then announced a N gauge and OO gauge Class 59. TBH I still don't see why DJM is duplicating an N gauge one? Smaller market, similar features etc. I feel it would have been better if DJM just made the OO gauge one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium James Makin Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2015 Im a little confused, as now Dapols facebook page says they have scanned a class 59 - who's doing what ??? Jon Jon this would be because I've just started following Pugsley's lead and bashing a Bachmann 66 chassis under a Lima 59, doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Just think of the satisfaction you'll have had from building it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2015 I am about to do the same. Cant wait any longer. I have a Bachmann 66 and a Lima 59/0 put aside for about 5 years now. I should probably start my S kits wagons to go with it to ensure they get released rtr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Dapol initially announced a N gauge Class 59. DJM then announced a N gauge and OO gauge Class 59. TBH I still don't see why DJM is duplicating an N gauge one? Smaller market, similar features etc. I feel it would have been better if DJM just made the OO gauge one. Purely speculation of course, but maybe both parties felt they could beat the other to it as far as the N one is concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=120#.VW33ZEY7NRc " Dapol are pleased to announce that a Class 59 was laser scanned at the Tor Works near Shepton Mallet. A full photographic and measurement survey was also conducted to enable Dapol to produce an extremely accurate model of the Class 59. From the laser scan and measurement data, Dapol intend to have full CAD/CAM files generated in approximately the next 10 weeks.Dapol would like to thank Hanson Industries for their invaluable cooperation and access to the prototypes during the course of the day." WTF? How do they have the "go ahead" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=120#.VW33ZEY7NRc " Dapol are pleased to announce that a Class 59 was laser scanned at the Tor Works near Shepton Mallet. A full photographic and measurement survey was also conducted to enable Dapol to produce an extremely accurate model of the Class 59. From the laser scan and measurement data, Dapol intend to have full CAD/CAM files generated in approximately the next 10 weeks. Dapol would like to thank Hanson Industries for their invaluable cooperation and access to the prototypes during the course of the day." WTF? How do they have the "go ahead" Signed the deal mate. Simple really. Apparently it's exclusive too, which is disappointing. Be nice to see within 12 months though as this is what I'm looking at if mine goes ahead. Can't say as much as I'd like to on this one I'm afraid, but obviously it pays not to be too open about progress and stumbling blocks on forums despite what the vocal minority seem to want. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sorry to hear that Dave, I can understand why you left them. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Right, full steam cutting up Lima models now! Is the deal "exclusive" from an N gauge point of view Dave or does it cover all scales? Perhaps you can still do the OO one? Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ...if mine goes ahead. If? Is it now a deceased announcement? Is there some suggestion this is no longer happening? I didn't quite understand the above post and Pete Harvey's reply. Is there some 'in' joke, since someone thought it funny? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Can't say as much as I'd like to on this one I'm afraid, but obviously it pays not to be too open about progress and stumbling blocks on forums despite what the vocal minority seem to want. Cheers Dave Dave - with respect - surely when you are a manufacturer communicating with your customers and how you communicate with them is part and parcel of your job? Customer service and all that. I totally understand the wanting to keep cards close to one's chest in terms of model development, but when you've previously built a reputation on being open and bringing people into the development of your models (class 52 Western for Dapol cited) then it stands to reason that those same people - on the same forum - want more of the same? You've raised expectations of communications between manufacturers and consumers on this forum. That was a good thing back then - what has changed? Sorry to hear that Dave, I can understand why you left them. Pete On what basis do you say that Pete? That seems a very strong comment implying wrong doing on Dapol's behalf. Perhaps the choice was made based on what both parties were offering? Is it so hard to believe that no wrong doing was present when a decision doesn't go a way one would like? From where I'm standing, two different manufacturers tendered for a contract, one got it and the other didn't. That's pretty much all the information known to the public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 No in Joke, just something that Dave and I have talked about privately. God only know why 51E found it a funny reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Right, full steam cutting up Lima models now! Is the deal "exclusive" from an N gauge point of view Dave or does it cover all scales? Perhaps you can still do the OO one? Guy Hi Guy, That's the subject of the current e-mail to Hanson. I'm just awaiting an answer. My problem is that Hanson control other logos so it will be difficult to do the N gauge one now. However I'm not giving up as I know what sort of product I can produce and maybe things can change? Certainly I'm not walking away from the N gauge version at present, as I'd be silly to at this juncture. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If you have something to say about Realtrack why not post on our part. So 4 years on another manufacturers Pacer? with 4 Versions Class 144, 4 Versions Class 143, 2 Seating layouts, 4 different colours of seats, DCC Fitted, Sound Fitted, Passengers Fitted. Yes it took over 4 years! Dave at DJM is trying to bring out products that hopefully the Big Boys won't! this with the Chinese takes time. Is it only DJM & the Pacer Manufacture who have had delays!!!! If it is just them two I would agree but it seems 'EVERYONE' has delays including another company who announced Mk2 coaches a long time ago. Cut Dave some slack OR do some models your self, I will pass on the Chinese phone number. Sorry guys, you know I am an avid fan of the certain pacer, and I could of used any product from any manufacturer to make the point it takes a long time to make things out of China. I have emailed you both. But that was the point of my question, I wonder as it takes time to make a model, I wanted to get an idea of where the Class 59 sits in time. I shall explain more below. Not sure what you mean about the time delay? I did not say a delay, I said it takes time to manufacturer items. And considering the Class 59 is subject to the success of other models, I wonder where in the line up does it sit. As experience of all models produced by all manufacturers at the moment take many years to produce. Hence I asked is the 59 a medium or long term plan. It is good that it is to be made in OO at a higher quality than Hornbys attempt, there is no worry that is shall take time, but it is just nice to know. I wonder a lot about a lot of things! Please may I be very clear, I never stated any unsatisfactory feeling towards a delay in a model, but using evidence to state things do take time. Time is irrelevant for such quality I think. As to the 59, it fits in there somewhere, it's just a shame I'm still being held up by 1 crucial licence holder that holds 2 livery / logo licences. This is crucial to get the model rolling, without that I'm not spending out on laser scanning of the real thing as to do so would be folly. Cheers Dave I certainly agree time is irrelevant for high quality, for whatever manufacturer. I used an example of another small based company to wonder around the timing of the Class 59. It is understandable that you want to be sure you have all the licensing in place before you get the scanner out, it makes ones jaw open rather wide over how much it costs to scan, when a Leica Scanstation sits in my department storeroom. I was just generally interested to know are we looking at the Class 59 being the 2nd, 3rd, 4th... funded model. I shall be wanting to by at least two Class 59s in due cause but seeing as it takes time to get something right, it would sound as if we might not see a Class 59 in OO for the medium term at least - which is fine by the way, but knowledge is power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sorry guys, you know I am an avid fan of the certain pacer, and I could of used any product from any manufacturer to make the point it takes a long time to make things out of China. I have emailed you both. But that was the point of my question, I wonder as it takes time to make a model, I wanted to get an idea of where the Class 59 sits in time. I shall explain more below. I did not say a delay, I said it takes time to manufacturer items. And considering the Class 59 is subject to the success of other models, I wonder where in the line up does it sit. As experience of all models produced by all manufacturers at the moment take many years to produce. Hence I asked is the 59 a medium or long term plan. It is good that it is to be made in OO at a higher quality than Hornbys attempt, there is no worry that is shall take time, but it is just nice to know. I wonder a lot about a lot of things! Please may I be very clear, I never stated any unsatisfactory feeling towards a delay in a model, but using evidence to state things do take time. I certainly agree time is irrelevant for high quality, for whatever manufacturer. I used an example of another small based company to wonder around the timing of the Class 59. It is understandable that you want to be sure you have all the licensing in place before you get the scanner out, it makes ones jaw open rather wide over how much it costs to scan, when a Leica Scanstation sits in my department storeroom. I was just generally interested to know are we looking at the Class 59 being the 2nd, 3rd, 4th... funded model. I shall be wanting to by at least two Class 59s in due cause but seeing as it takes time to get something right, it would sound as if we might not see a Class 59 in OO for the medium term at least - which is fine by the way, but knowledge is power. Hi mate, our not going to like this but really it is the only answer i can give at the moment and that is, it will arrive when it arrives, nothing more nothing less i suppose. A trite answer i know, but i cannot say. Things will always get jiggled around despite starting first, second or fifth, because things happen that cause delays, and as such other models that can fit the production slot get made sooner etc. Sorry Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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