OO gauge Raven Q6 0-8-0 steam locomotive

[Oldddudders]

Dave has announced that he is withdrawing his OO Q6-

http://djmodels.co.uk/?p=470

So why did someone find this sensible, helpful, pragmatic statement funny?

[jjb1970]

Dave Jones is taking a pragmatic approach to this and his statement is a model of dignified and decorous communication. There will be plenty of other opportunities for DJM and it is refreshing to see Dave take such a magnanimous tone, others should take note.

[Horsetan]

....There will be plenty of other opportunities for DJM and it is refreshing to see Dave take such a magnanimous tone....

It also gives carte blanche to the "big boys" to queer Dave's pitch in future.

 

Captain Darling: "We send up a plane - the Jerries hide a squadron behind the next cloud. We occupy a village - the Jerries buy up the entire supply of toilet paper."

[papagolfjuliet]

So why did someone find this sensible, helpful, pragmatic statement funny?

 

Agreed. Completely inappropriate and really rather cheap.

[jjb1970]

I hope it is another case of the funny button being between the informative and supportive buttons. I agree, it'd be rather sad if people genuinely find it funny.

[Porcy Mane]

Thanks are due to Dave Jones for making his intentions plain very quickly. I'm sure the last few days have seen some agonising.  I just hope that his detractors don't use the announcement to start sniping and making I'll informed comment.   

I was quite looking forward to a DJM Q6 and with Hornby's announcement quite looking forward to some keen competition.

 

Ah well. Maybe those of us with a bias for the North East may see something else come along the line from DJM in future.

 

All the best for the future DJM and thanks for thinking of the North East.

 

P

[The Black Hat]

For most of us it was DJM that broke the mold and went into the territory north of York first. The announcement of the DJM Q6 brought literally cheer and happiness to those of us that have campaigned for this region not to be overlooked. It was DJM that said it could be done, while unknown to us all Hornby were soon to be the ones appearing first in this race to the north. 

 

I think DJM has been beset by luck that would surely have proven to be too much for lesser men. The duplication of the King, was one thing, but the Q6 was a surprise to some. I think that DJM will continue to grow and prosper. The issue of selecting the right models and prototypes continues, and the poll results show that this is ever harder when you consider the range and options available. 

 

I'm certain this might just cause DJM to advance the idea of creating a model that would be the follow up to the Q6. I have no doubt that Dave would have been thinking he was entering a market he could exploit first. Hornby seem to be entering too, and you wonder if for once Bachmann are the ones playing catch up or whether their hitherto almost dismissive view of the north east will continue. 

 

Its a measure of the man that he encourages others to get the Hornby machine, that he still plans for wagons that would go with it. 

 

As someone who has had his fair share of setbacks in life, I have sympathies with Dave. Move on and keep your plans going. There are plenty of models that the North East still needs and plenty of us that still want you to make them. 

 

We're behind you on this still. 

[MGR Hooper!]

Seems to be a sensible option for Dave to drop the OO gauge Raven Q6 and continue with the N gauge version. All the best with that. And a very nice way of announcing the drop of the loco. Very gentlemanly

[peterfgf]

A great pity but a sensible decision given how near to production the Hornby model appears.  I was enthusiastic about this - both the by choice of model and by DJM.  I ordered one back in October 2014 from Durham Trains at Stanley - I'll see if they can convert that to an order for a Hornby one.  Perhaps DJM could take a trip to Beamish to look at their J21 as an alternative model.

Peterfgf

[JaymzHatstand]

It is a great shame that the DJM Q6 has been dropped, but completely understandable. At least with the continuation of the N gauge version it means that the research and some of the design work will not have been in vain.

 

I pre-ordered one from Monk Bar models in York, but will be changing that for the Hornby version after having a good look at the Warley sample. I was intending to purchase both company products, one for a dirty working loco, the other as the preserved example.

 

I'm still looking forward to my J94, and seeing what Dave has planned next.

 

I'm most grateful for the spark of excitement he provided when he first announced the Q6! Hopefully, once he has some capital under his belt from the forthcoming models, Dave will announce some more magic items that I'll have to hide from the wife!

 

Cheers

 

J

[Markeg]

Well done Dave on his decision.  I had ordered mine from Hereford MC.  I will have to change that to a Hornby model.

The one thing I noticed was that the Hornby model looks like it is a post war model, unless the lettering is just for show.  DJM had chosen to model a pre war livery.

So some renumbering and re-lettering will need to be done.

 

Mark in oz

[Legend]

A sensible decision I think. I couldn't see there was room for two models of this prototype . Hornby was going to beat him to it. Better to cut his losses now, although I'm sorry they are losses, rather than go ahead and have an even bigger loss.

 

There are still lots of subjects crying out for a model. Given that Hornby seem to be getting back in their stride , I think Dave seriously needs to look at the gestation time on some of his projects. He needs to shorten it to around 12 -18 months. Otherwise he runs the risk of announcing and another manufacturer picking it off . Not saying it happened here. Maybe it's just an (un)happy coincidence, but the long length of time it takes to bring something to market leaves Dave vulnerable.Maybe too many projects on at once, or needing to form a very close relationship with one or two manufacturers and reduce lead time.

 

Meanwhile can I point him to the model manufacturers barren wastelands North of the border. Should be safe there!

[gismorail]

Well done Dave I think you have made the right move there. You need to concentrate on what you are working on and I'm sure that the other projects that you have in the pipeline will show your skills to all the doubters. 

[DougN]

It is a sad situation, which for some reason reminds me of the song by Kenny rogers song the gambler... Dare I say Dave knows "when to hold'em, knows when to fold'em and knows when to walk way, and when to run"

 

So a sad expensive situation. As per Daves very well worded withdrawal it is best to fold. Cut the losses and move on. I am also sympathetic to the people who volunteered a lot of time and information to make the DJ version as accurate as possible.

 

As Dave has stated support Hornby in this one and look to Daves next project.

[edcayton]

Is it coincidence that since Simon Kohler has been associated with Locomotion Models we have had a steep increase of NRM models by Bachmann, Hornby and Rapido. I have always thought that there is a rich seam to be mined there and I'm sure that Mr K would prevent duplication.  Aerolite anyone?

 

Ed

[edcayton]

Lest we forget.........Dave's J94/Austerity duplicated a Hornby model!

 

Ed

[woodenhead]

Is it coincidence that since Simon Kohler has been associated with Locomotion Models we have had a steep increase of NRM models by Bachmann, Hornby and Rapido. I have always thought that there is a rich seam to be mined there and I'm sure that Mr K would prevent duplication.  Aerolite anyone?

 

Ed

I think that is precisely why they employed him or he perhaps got himself a job by suggesting it and by having no preferred supplier the rate & type of new models is phenomenal.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

.. I have always thought that there is a rich seam to be mined there and I'm sure that Mr K would prevent duplication.  Aerolite anyone?...

 There's preserved specimens of once numerous and widely distributed classes in the national collection that seem so obvious as model candidates. The ex-SECR D, ex-GER J69, ex-NER 0-6-0s etc. Stock too, Royal Train coaches for a start. But please, no thoughts of one off toys like Aerolite...

[Arthur]

Lest we forget.........Dave's J94/Austerity duplicated a Hornby model!

 

Ed

There's a significant difference between the duplication of new models and 'duplicating' an existing, old model. If the custom was not to duplicate older models then the best A4, Stainer 8F and Deltic we would have would be Hornby Dublo.

 

The Dapol austerity has been around for a long time, hopefully Dapol, and now Hornby, have more than recouped their costs. Time for a new model to modern standards or we stand still.

 

The Q6, King, Adams Radial and LMS twins situation is entirely different. I'm not going to go over all that again save to say that it doesn't help the manufacturers whose returns are less than that might have hoped and who, in this case, lose money which might, with a crystal ball, have been directed at another prototype.

 

I''m sure that Dave, nor any other manufacturer, would chose to go head to head with entirely new, duplicate, models.

[edcayton]

Although I was joking about Aerolite, it is no more a one off than the Royal Stock (and probably saw more service), Rocket or Deltic. There are many one-offs that people have bought, and that are on wish-lists. Me, I'm waiting for Drummond's "Bug".

 

Ed

[coachmann]

There are some lovely machines in the NRM and with the rise of a market that will buy anything if it looks pretty, being realistic no longer applies.  For instance, I would have said the small-boiler GNR Atlantic has a good case as a follow-up to the large Atlantic at one time, but the sleek NER M1 4-4-0 or even the LNWR Precedent 2-4-0 now appears to stand an equal chance of returning a profit.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I am not suggesting that there should be collusion between manufacturers. Technically, that could be a breach of the law.

 

But I think that Hornby could and should have informed DJ much earlier in the process and saved him time and money.

[edcayton]

There are some lovely machines in the NRM and with the rise of a market that will buy anything if it looks pretty, being realistic no longer applies.  For instance, I would have said the small-boiler GNR Atlantic has a good case as a follow-up to the large Atlantic at one time, but the sleek NER M1 4-4-0 or even the LNWR Precedent 2-4-0 now appears to stand an equal chance of returning a profit.

 

Why do you say that being realistic no longer applies Larry? Certainly the reason I buy far too many loco's is because of the astounding standards that rtr reaches these days. Oh, and if it looks pretty.

 

Ed

[woodenhead]

I am not suggesting that there should be collusion between manufacturers. Technically, that could be a breach of the law.

 

But I think that Hornby could and should have informed DJ much earlier in the process and saved him time and money.

Do we know when DJM became aware - he might have known some time and stopped work but not said anything.  No-one had given him any money for it so I don't think he had any reason to do anything until the Hornby model broke cover.

[Fenman]

I am not suggesting that there should be collusion between manufacturers. Technically, that could be a breach of the law.

 

But I think that Hornby could and should have informed DJ much earlier in the process and saved him time and money.

Would that not have been collusion and, hence, unlawful?

 

And if it had emerged that Hornby had done this, can you imagine the cries on RMWeb that they were engaging in bully-boy tactics, secretly trying to strongarm their innocent competitors by using the brute force of their market strength,... Etc, etc.

 

I'm a bit mystified by some of the views on here. Business is business. I wish all of the manufacturers every success. But I don't want businesses colluding, thanks.

 

Paul