West End Workbench

[MrWolf]

3 minutes ago, 41516 said:

 

Must have been the same person who who designed the Lima horse box with the multitude of ventilators....

 

That does look like a stegosaurus in a high sided wagon.

Shame about that because I seem to remember it was quite a nice body moulding, not sure how accurate though and let's not talk about the chassis, which was no better or worse than anybody else's.

[jwealleans]

I've been trying to clear the bench a bit as we run into Christmas and have managed to finish off a few wagons, mainly from what I'd prepared for Warley.   Here are the two refrigerated wagons now only needing couplings and weathering.

 

 

This is the other F10, to be finished with the insul-Meat branding as shown in Tatlow.

 

 

There's no suitable HMRS lettering so I'll have to make some up and have it printed.   The ABS open was a second hand buy at Newcastle.  i assume it had been part of a larger collection, but by the time we got there on Sunday it had been well picked over.   The chap who sold me it was very sniffy about the building, but it seems well enough put together to me.  I've patch painted it, replaced some of the lettering which had fallen off and varnished it.   I suspect by the time that running number was built it would have had the post-1936 lettering, but I'll take my chances on anyone noticing.  There are a couple more wagons from the same lot making their way through the works at the moment.

 

Mrs. W's wagon has now been finished, painted and lettered.

 

 

Also deemed complete, the two Parkside horseboxes bought as wrecks.   I had to cheat slightly and use the D4 transfers on these (CCT only include one D5 on their sheet), but at speed no-one can read them.   One improvement I made to these was to ditch the chunky droplight in the lav and replace with .020x.020 Evergreen strip.   Once it has the glazing behind it it's quite robust and it improves the look no end, IMHO.

 

 

 

Brake vans are also done.   One or other of these will go on the perishables train on Grantham.   I'm pleased with these, they scrub up nicely for a kit that was old when I was in nappies.

 

 

 

If I do another it'll be from the later batch with the end weights, that'll be a bit less work.

 

Finding myself home from work early and with most of the above at the 'leave it alone while it dries' stage, I looked for something to treat myself to and found this.   I bought this at Warley and it hadn't been put into the crate with the others, so it has massively jumped the queue.   

 

 

Brassmasters GC Refrigerated van (the old R & E kit).  It's quite challenging in places and has taken me all afternoon to get here, where the soldering is complete.   It's now drying after a wash down and tomorrow - or later in the week - I'll glue all the overlays on.   It also needs 14mm Mansell wheels, so an order will need to go into Wizard when I have need of enough bits and bobs.  It's largely built as supplied, though I used my own ladders rather than the kit ones and added some brake bits from the Mainly Trains etch.   There's no roof supplied either so one will have to be cut and curved sometime.

 

Edit - I forgot last night to add in my best wishes for Christmas to all readers and RMWeb members more generally.  Here's hoping for a positive and productive 2023.

Edited December 24, 2022 by jwealleans

[46444]

17 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I've been trying to clear the bench a bit as we run into Christmas and have managed to finish off a few wagons, mainly from what I'd prepared for Warley.   Here are the two refrigerated wagons now only needing couplings and weathering.

 

 

This is the other F10, to be finished with the insul-Meat branding as shown in Tatlow.

 

 

There's no suitable HMRS lettering so I'll have to make some up and have it printed.   The ABS open was a second hand buy at Newcastle.  i assume it had been part of a larger collection, but by the time we got there on Sunday it had been well picked over.   The chap who sold me it was very sniffy about the building, but it seems well enough put together to me.  I've patch painted it, replaced some of the lettering which had fallen off and varnished it.   I suspect by the time that running number was built it would have had the post-1936 lettering, but I'll take my chances on anyone noticing.  There are a couple more wagons from the same lot making their way through the works at the moment.

 

Mrs. W's wagon has now been finished, painted and lettered.

 

 

Also deemed complete, the two Parkside horseboxes bought as wrecks.   I had to cheat slightly and use the D4 transfers on these (CCT only include one D5 on their sheet), but at speed no-one can read them.   One improvement I made to these was to ditch the chunky droplight in the lav and replace with .020x.020 Evergreen strip.   Once it has the glazing behind it it's quite robust and it improves the look no end, IMHO.

 

 

 

Brake vans are also done.   One or other of these will go on the perishables train on Grantham.   I'm pleased with these, they scrub up nicely for a kit that was old when I was in nappies.

 

 

 

If I do another it'll be from the later batch with the end weights, that'll be a bit less work.

 

Finding myself home from work early and with most of the above at the 'leave it alone while it dries' stage, I looked for something to treat myself to and found this.   I bought this at Warley and it hadn't been put into the crate with the others, so it has massively jumped the queue.   

 

 

Brassmasters GC Refrigerated van (the old R & E kit).  It's quite challenging in places and has taken me all afternoon to get here, where the soldering is complete.   It's now drying after a wash down and tomorrow - or later in the week - I'll glue all the overlays on.   It also needs 14mm Mansell wheels, so an order will need to go into Wizard when I have need of enough bits and bobs.  It's largely built as supplied, though I used my own ladders rather than the kit ones and added some brake bits from the Mainly Trains etch.   There's no roof supplied either so one will have to be cut and curved sometime.

 

Very nice work on these wagons Jonathan.

 

Thanks for the top tip regarding the droplight windows on the Parkside LNER Horsebox. Having built one I do feel it it lets the finesse of the model down. 

 

I may revisit mine or build a new one one day.

 

Lovely conversions on the Airfix BR Brake Van kits as well. Something I have done previously.

 

Out of interest how do you glaze the end windows? I have filed the window uprights for a better scale effect and glazed each pane individually.

 

I did try Microsol glazing solution but this was not a success.

 

Also on a couple of the conversions I have done the doors were converted to the four window pane versions.

 

Always inspiring to look into this thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

Edited December 24, 2022 by 46444

[jwealleans]

Thank you, Mark.   Really speaking I wimped on the end windows as they're not at all easy to get to (and not very easy to see) - i used Krystal Kleer.  I don't usually like doing that but inside the verandah all they need to do is allow light and give the suggestion of transparency, especially if there's a guard standing in front of them.   I'll take an end photo so you can see what I mean. 

 

When I did my first of these in 2011, Mike Bootman kindly sent me a stack of information including a list of known photographs and the end door construction shown in each.   That implies that the LNER only built the 2 panel glazed door and any 4 panel ones were later swaps.   He lists getting on for 50 photos of the LNER and Dia 1/500 BR builds and there's only one 4 pane door among them.

 

Glazed doors will be another difference I have to remember if i do build the end weight version.

Edited December 24, 2022 by jwealleans

[46444]

31 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Thank you, Mark.   Really speaking I wimped on the end windows as they're not at all easy to get to (and not very easy to see) - i used Krystal Kleer.  I don't usually like doing that but inside the verandah all they need to do is allow light and give the suggestion of transparency, especially if there's a guard standing in front of them.   I'll take an end photo so you can see what I mean. 

 

When I did my first of these in 2011, Mike Bootman kindly sent me a stack of information including a lits of known photographs and the end door construction shown in each.   That implies that the LNER only built the 2 panel glazed door and any 4 panel ones were later swaps.   He lists getting on for 50 photos of the LNER and Dia 1/500 BR builds and there's only one 4 pane door among them.

 

Glazed doors will be another difference I have to remember if i do build the end weight version.

 

Thanks Jonathan,

 

The end windows are certainly not easy to glaze. I thought you may have a trick up your sleeve to make the job easier.

 

Your end on photos will be appreciated. 

 

Interesting information regarding the LNER build end doors. I always thought they were the 4 pane version. 

 

It would be good if an etch or a 3D print was available to replace the Airfix/Dapol kit window/door moulding. 

 

However, I am always amazed at the current cost of these old Airfix kits in the Dapol range and what can be achieved with them. Great fun and excellent value.

 

Mark 

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

This is the end view of the brake vans:

 

 

I wouldn't ordinarily use this method on a window that large, but as they're so awkward to see (and photograph), from normal viewing distances I think they'll be fine.

 

With a break in festivities until this evening I've been back at the bench.   Picking up where we left off, the refrigerated van is now painted and awaiting lettering.

 

 

The other van was another acquisition at Newcastle show.  It's either Ian Kirk or Westykits, a short wheelbase NBR van.  There's one in Tatlow 3 branded 'Return to Singer' which text I think may be on the HMRS sheet.   I'll have a look, maybe later this week.   This was built and painted to a decent standard, all I've had to do is fit buffer heads, replace the P4 wheels and put a couple of coats of varnish on to take the transfers.

 

 

Another Newcastle show buy, probably ignored as it was incomplete, a 51L NBR Tube wagon (NBRD043E).   It was missing axleguards at one end, so i fitted an MJT unit and spring/axlebox castings.   Everything else was present.   The single bolster must have come in a job lot as I have no recollection of where I acquired it.   I think it's a kit, but there's no branding or marks on it.  If it is a kit, it's not badly built - if it's a scratchbuild it's very good.   

 

Continuing the effort to finish off a few 'nearly done..' projects, the North Eastern Design carriages I showed a few posts ago.  They just needed grab handles and the roofs fitting, which i did this morning.  First up, the D121 Lavatory Composite:

 

 

D130 Lavatory Brake Third:

 

 

I have also made sure I've retained the makers plates - I have repainted these, but I shan't try to take credit for the building of them.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by jwealleans

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, jwealleans said:

they're so awkward to see (and photograph), from normal viewing distances

In that case I think I might have left them unglazed.

[gr.king]

If anyone were sufficiently bothered, it wouldn't be a massive effort to make one new thin inner-end for the Toad D in plasticard and use that to produce a silicone rubber mould in which oodles of copies could be cast in resin. A simple flat glazing piece could then be stuck inside.

No, that's not the sound of me volunteering.

[jwealleans]

I used to work with a chap who always said of a problem 'Interest equals ownership'.  I think I have a sufficiency of these vans, but should the fancy for another take me, I'll know where to come for ends.

 

Don't you get plenty done when you don't have to bother working?   I did have to work yesterday, so today was my Bank Holiday.  Prevented from doing domestic maintenance by persistent rain, it was back to the wagons.    The last batch are now lettered, varnished and curing before being weathered.

 

 

 

The NB wagons were a bit of a nuisance to do - someone at Cowlairs must have liked the sight of their own voice.   I had to make up some of the lettering from other text, letter by letter, which does take a while.  i also discovered that 'Singer' referred to the company, not a place.   Every day's a schoolday.

 

On to the last batch of fairly quick jobs now - an ABS fish which was the last one in the box at Newcastle, so I felt it was worth a fiver.   Nicely built again, but it shows what some of us think is important and others don't even notice: he'd made a nice brass roof for the wagon, but hadn't filed off the really prominent mould lines on the buffers.

 

 

 

Some more single bolsters - these are Midland, by ABS and sold as a pair.  They came in the bag the kit was sold in, with the instruction sheet.   I had to add bolster pins and make good a broken W iron (and supply wheels) but otherwise they were ready to paint.   

 

Another job today, to pick up again on the theme of things we notice which others don't - adding rain deflectors to the roof of the D 183 carriage.  The LNER varnished or painted the cantrail teak brown on carriages and this extended to the rain deflectors above the doors.   It means you don't get a smooth flat line along the base of the roof and it's very noticeable once you know to look for it.   It's not universal - steel stock doesn't always have it - but wooden stock, especially GNR stock, has to.  It's one of my pet peeves when I look at models of LNER carriages.   Missing it off is a sin and painting the cantrail the roof colour compounds it.   Mind you, the LNER didn't always get it right either and there are photos to prove it.  It's an easy job with .020x.020 Evergreen strip.  Just remember that the ends are sloped down, not square.   Cyano to attach and then file the face gently to be flush with the cantrail.

 

[jwealleans]

I had a lucky dip this afternoon.  I was sorting through the box of wagon kits - checking to see whether I had forgotten having a kit for a D & S Macaw (I hadn't and don't) and I found a matchbox.   It was a bit of a squeeze getting the crate to close with this in there, so I thought 'sod it, I'll build that, whatever it is'.   I could see some whitemetal bits in there, so it went onto the bench and was tipped out.

 

 

I'd have recognised it, but there was an instruction sheet with it - it was an ABS LNER open.   The sheet covers several variants, but the parts only allowed the 10' WB fitted version.   I have no recollection of where this kit came from, but I suspect I was given it by someone having a clearout at some time.    It was complete, or as complete as I needed it to be, so the iron went on and I piled in.

 

Adrian's patterns and castings were generally excellent and this was no exception.  It took less than 40 minutes to clean up and assemble the body.  By the time I was called for dinner I had a rolling shell.

 

 

Back to the bench after eating and without pressing on too hard, it just all fell together.   By the time of the mandatory pause for Only Connect, the soldering was all but complete.

 

 

Finished off by 9 pm, having added some extra brake gear (just about visible underneath) and glued in the floor as the last job.   I manfully resisted the urge to prime it at once and it's now drying having had a thorough rinse.   I'm sure I'll find the time to apply some paint tomorrow.

 

 

Pleased with that and it does show how quickly you can put something like this together if you solder rather than glue.  

[cctransuk]

17 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Pleased with that and it does show how quickly you can put something like this together if you solder rather than glue.  

 

....and use an ABS kit!

 

CJI.

[drmditch]

39 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

By the time of the mandatory pause for Only Connect, 

 

Very glad to hear this.

[gr.king]

On 27/12/2022 at 08:59, gr.king said:

If anyone were sufficiently bothered, it wouldn't be a massive effort to make one new thin inner-end for the Toad D in plasticard and use that to produce a silicone rubber mould in which oodles of copies could be cast in resin. A simple flat glazing piece could then be stuck inside.

No, that's not the sound of me volunteering.

For that matter, you could simply rub / file down the back of one of the ends supplied in the kit, then use that as the mould master...

[46444]

On 26/12/2022 at 16:57, jwealleans said:

This is the end view of the brake vans:

 

 

I wouldn't ordinarily use this method on a window that large, but as they're so awkward to see (and photograph), from normal viewing distances I think they'll be fine.

 

Thanks Jonathan,

 

That what mine look like.

 

Like you say as a layout brake van they certainly cut the mustard and are something of a bargain if you're prepared to put the extra work in.

 

I never realised the compartment doors were not glazed. Again a nice touch.

 

I would agree. Some enterprising soul(s) could make replacement compartment ends in either etched brass, 3D printed or even home rosin casting.

 

The later being a very cost effective approach.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark  

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 46444
To include home resin casting...

[gr.king]

I'm baffled by the prevailing current fixed-mindset that sees expensive etching or expensive 3D printing, both being technology dependent, as the default solutions to parts requirements. Cheap, low tech, do-at-home resin casting seems to be totally absent from, or ignored by, the thinking processes of so many. Never mind, I don't object to keeping the advantages to myself.

[46444]

16 minutes ago, gr.king said:

I'm baffled by the prevailing current fixed-mindset that sees expensive etching or expensive 3D printing, both being technology dependent, as the default solutions to parts requirements. Cheap, low tech, do-at-home resin casting seems to be totally absent from, or ignored by, the thinking processes of so many. Never mind, I don't object to keeping the advantages to myself.

 

Duly added to my post...

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, gr.king said:

I'm baffled by the prevailing current fixed-mindset that sees expensive etching or expensive 3D printing, both being technology dependent, as the default solutions to parts requirements. Cheap, low tech, do-at-home resin casting seems to be totally absent from, or ignored by, the thinking processes of so many. Never mind, I don't object to keeping the advantages to myself.

 

Graham,

 

I think that many are deterred by having to produce the casting masters - albeit this can be done in plastic card.

 

If the 3D printed production of multiple identical components is considered prohibitively expensive, perhaps the way forward is a one-off 3D printed master, which can be used for the resin-casting process.

 

It would seem to be a trade-off of materials cost of 3D printing, against the more labour intensive but cheaper(?) resin casting process.

 

I am fortunate in having a very generous friend, who will design and 3D print components - and even complete wagons for me; in the latter case, one merely fits wheels and adds couplings!

 

John Isherwood.

[gr.king]

21 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

I think that many are deterred by having to produce the casting masters - albeit this can be done in plastic card.

 

John Isherwood.

You're probably right about the perceived difficulty of creating masters John, although for private use the quiet duplication of unaltered, or virtually unaltered commercial parts can be considered, especially when no longer made by the original manufacturer, and/or where that manufacturer no longer exists and nobody has shown any interest in resurrecting the business, but let's not get into discussion of strict interpretation of copyright laws here. There's always the possibility too of using a substantially altered commercial part as a master. If alterations go far enough, it may be fair to claim that only the general shape (if that) of the original part is being used, and in that sense it is no different from using a conveniently shaped piece of raw material.

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, gr.king said:

You're probably right about the perceived difficulty of creating masters John, although for private use the quiet duplication of unaltered, or virtually unaltered commercial parts can be considered, especially when no longer made by the original manufacturer, and/or where that manufacturer no longer exists and nobody has shown any interest in resurrecting the business, but let's not get into discussion of strict interpretation of copyright laws here. There's always the possibility too of using a substantially altered commercial part as a master. If alterations go far enough, it may be fair to claim that only the general shape (if that) of the original part is being used, and in that sense it is no different from using a conveniently shaped piece of raw material.

 

I'm afraid that I'm the kind of person who wouldn't get at all worked-up about reproducing a commercial part for personal use; I really wouldn't envisage the legal-eagles being unleashed against me.

 

I am sure that the resin-casting process is simplicity itself to the practiced user, but I've always had an aversion to sticky, smelly resins - and the most generous offer of 3D printed components was too attractive to turn down.

 

Chacun a son gout ... (if that is the correct rendition, sans accents).

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

[gr.king]

I'm with you on that first point John, in the practical rather than theoretical and pedantic world, though others will differ on that, at great and tedious length given the opportunity. Not something to take up space here.

Mercifully, the resins and mould rubber that I use have virtually no odour.

Each to his own, of course. 

Happy New Year to all, if we're given a chance that is.

[jwealleans]

Pleased to see you've been talking among yourselves in my absence.   John, you're right about ABS kits, Adrian really was an excellent pattern maker.  As whitemetal kits go you won't find better.   To pick up on your other point :

 

Quote

...perhaps the way forward is a one-off 3D printed master, which can be used for the resin-casting process.

 

Isn't this how Bill Bedford is producing his current range of wagon and carriage kits?

 

Anyhoo, you've seen enough wagons being lettered and varnished for the moment so I shan't bore you with those.  Instead, New Year, new project.   LRM kit LOCO84, GNR J5/LNER J4.   In among Graeme's plethora of J1s, 2s and 6s, I don't think we've had one of these on Grantham, or if we did I missed it.  The idea came from Dick Hardy's last book, A Life on the Lines, which includes a photo of him and a colleague in the (Stirling) cab of No. 4040 at Grantham during the War.   4040 was at Grantham from 1936 to 1943, so squarely in our timeframe and that cab made it irresistible.

 

 

 

As regular readers will know, I have built the LRM J6 and then J5 in the last couple of years, so I'm reasonably familiar with the general type and the usual way LRM kits work.   I bought the Isinglass drawing for this loco when I did the J6, so I've had it for a couple of years and I've looked through the Yeadon and the Greenie prior to starting.  There's a decent picture of 4040 in Yeadon and another on Ebay currently, so I thought it was time to have a go.

 

This is not an easy kit.   I erected the frames yesterday afternoon and the splashers and cab today.   The frames were problematic as they built up too wide - Romford wheels wouldn't fit completely onto the axles, let alone turn.   The footplate and frames don't marry up quite as they should.   Some of the problems were self-induced, but the instructions are not always crystal clear and to complicate it further there's a separate extra etch pack to make a 1031 series loco, which was what I needed for what had been 1040 when built.  Putting the box on top of one of the replacement etches didn't help me any.   But we are getting there.  I've substituted some spare frame spacers I found, taken a deep breath and redone what I've realised I've cocked up and so I have the makings of a nice looking little loco.   There will be a pause now as I've reached the stage where I can size up an appropriate High Level drive combination, which I'll have to order.  I've also been in touch with John Redrup about the frame issues and to ask for a Strling tender for it.  I'll go into the problems I encountered in more detail (if anyone's interested) after I've been able to communicate with John about them.

Edited January 1, 2023 by jwealleans

[Bucoops]

That's interesting as I have found the frame spacing for the LRM GNR N1 to be too wide (in OO at least). I've left it as-is for the moment with very thinned bearing faces but have a spare chassis etch for if it turns out it's not going to work.

[jwealleans]

What is the inside dimension of the frames on that, Rich?   This one was ~12mm (I have a manual Vernier), which when the frame thickness and the bearing shoulders were added on came to around 14.8mm.

[Barry O]

Designed for EM?

 

Baz

[Paul Cram]

Hi Jonathon

 

Om the test build the frames over the bearings measures 13.3mm. I used gibson wheels.