West End Workbench

[rowanj]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I'm aiming for compatible with R2 as my layout is as yet unbuilt - I'll be avoiding curves that tight in the scenery section but the available space means the fiddle area *may* need to go that sharp. Not ideal of course but needs must.

 

 

Others will know better, but I'd be surprised if you can get kit built locos to run reliably round R2 setrack.  I find R3 can be a challenge. Best of luck and best wishes, On Little Benton, I use R4 to get out of the scenic section into the fiddle yards. Peco setrack R3 and R4 match Hornby ..the radius measurements are the same,

I used bushes with the tophats inside on a PDK fold-up chassis - a B16/3 if I recall. I still had the devils own job, and on the next one, used narrower spacers.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The compromise that is 00 enables one to have a continuous run in a space where that simply wouldn't be possible if working to EM or P4 standards. 

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The compromise that is 00 enables one to have a continuous run in a space where that simply wouldn't be possible if working to EM or P4 standards. 

It is a compromise that results in overly complex layouts with excessively small radius curves. That destroys any sense of realism that I think can add so much to a model. It is made worse by the wide flangeway gaps and switch blade clearances that RTL track uses. A look at Little Bytham and other OO layouts with hand built track will illustrate what can be achieved.

 

Surely it is better to follow the sort of approach that Iain Rice recommended if you have limited space.

 

I'll get my flak jacket out.

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I'll get my flak jacket out.

 

It'll get some wear!

 

The considerations you mention made P4 (or EM) the logical conclusion for you. 

[Dunsignalling]

31 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

It is a compromise that results in overly complex layouts with excessively small radius curves. That destroys any sense of realism that I think can add so much to a model. It is made worse by the wide flangeway gaps and switch blade clearances that RTL track uses. A look at Little Bytham and other OO layouts with hand built track will illustrate what can be achieved.

 

Surely it is better to follow the sort of approach that Iain Rice recommended if you have limited space.

 

I'll get my flak jacket out.

Tony's shed is big enough for LB to have been built to EM but he didn't fancy converting all his locos and stock.

 

Given the option of appearance vs operational scope in a restricted space, not everybody will make the same choice.

 

A shunting plank or a half-BLT will be entertaining enough for a weekend at a show with plenty of visitors to talk to, but I often wonder how much use many of them see "at home". Many devotees of the genre seem to make a new one every year so I suspect they have more interest in building than running.

 

My personal compromise between appearance and entertainment value uses OO set track in hidden areas to free up space for 30 - 36" radii on scenic ones.

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Dunsignalling
Clarity

[Bucoops]

No Flak Jacket needed :)

 

I'm fully aware R2 is the devil and I'm hoping to avoid at all costs - but I also need to ensure I don't snooker myself :)

 

My N7 is perfectly happy on R2 - but then that uses Gibson wheels so perhaps it's the Markits wheels at the source of the issue but more likely I should have built the frames a bit narrower for my needs. 

 

[jwealleans]

Well, I seem to have missed quite a bit.    To work through your replies in order:

 

On 04/01/2023 at 16:09, rowanj said:

I'm currently building an LRM J21 and can report similar issues getting the wheels to turn.

 

I built the J21 chassis last year to replace an EM one and didn't have any problem with it.  I've just had it on the bench this evening and there's ~1mm of sideplay even though I haven't used Steve's dodge below.

 

22 hours ago, 31A said:

Would it be possible to gain a bit of clearance by fitting the bearings the other way round to usual, i.e. with the flange on the inside of the frames rather than outside?  Might not work for the driven axle, I suppose.  Just a thought....

 

Yes and yes, in a nutshell.   Putting the bearings inside was the first thing I tried and with the replacement frame spacers I now almost have too much sideplay so I'm thinking of putting them back outside again.   The driven axle is always the problem as, depending on the gearbox you use there may not be room for inside bearings as well.   That said LRM frames are wide (isn't that where we started?) so it might not be an issue.  With, say, Comet frames (the ones on a J39 I have for repair are only 10mm inside) you might well struggle.

 

I'm in touch with John Redrup.  It does seem, as I'd rather suspected, that whatever problems I'm having are only with my kit and/or me.

 

[Paul Cram]

I have measured the oo spacers on the LRM D23 kit that I am currently building and they are 13mm wide. Thye J5 spacers are 12mm on the test etches.

[Chas Levin]

20 hours ago, rowanj said:

Others will know better, but I'd be surprised if you can get kit built locos to run reliably round R2 setrack.  I find R3 can be a challenge. Best of luck and best wishes, On Little Benton, I use R4 to get out of the scenic section into the fiddle yards. Peco setrack R3 and R4 match Hornby ..the radius measurements are the same,

I used bushes with the tophats inside on a PDK fold-up chassis - a B16/3 if I recall. I still had the devils own job, and on the next one, used narrower spacers.

Based on my admittedly limited experience, you can, but with compromises, though they can hopefully be hidden.

I've built a DJH 0-6-0 J9/10 and an LRM 4-4-2 GNR C2 and both run very happily round R2, but both required more sideplay than would usually be included on a kit loco and in the case of the C2, a rear pony truck, which turned out by a happy coincidence to be prototypical for some of the class, but I didn't know that when I decided to hide one away at the back for curve-related reasons!

[jwealleans]

Progress on the J4.  I have spoken to John Redrup about the problem I had with the frames.  We have no clear idea of the reason - excessive etch cusp was about the best we could come up with.  I'd like to think I'd dressed the edges of the spacers, but they're covered in solder now so I can't tell, other than I did do the front and rear edges.  I was interested that John commented above that he'd had the same issue with a J21.   I built the J21 frames last year and didn't have any problem.   Bit of a mystery but maybe the amount of cusp can vary?   I've ended up with a bit too much sideplay on this now, really, so I've put the rear bearings back outside the frames and I'll put PECO fibre washers on the front axle.

 

Chris Gibbon at High Level must have sent my motor and gearbox out by return as I had them on Thursday.   I went for a 60:1 Roadrunner with a 1219C Coreless motor, intending to drive on the middle axle either by standing the motor in the firebox or having it horizontal above the frames.  The latter turned out to be the best option as it sits exactly on a spacer placed at the top of the frames. 

 

Here's the chassis with rods fettled and after a very quick test under power:

 

 

You can see against the body where it will sit and how it'll be hidden by the sandboxes.   On a later series loco it would probably be concealed by firebox and centre splasher.

 

 

Here you can see the extra cutout I had to make in the boiler to fit the gearbox.  Most of the boiler is empty, so there's plenty of space for ballast once everything else is soldered on.

 

 

Here with her clothes on.   The boiler isn't yet fixed, but you can clearly see - or perhaps not see - that the drivetrain is concealed.

Edited January 7, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Back in the jug agane tomorrow, so a day spent trying to get a few things wrapped up and put away.

 

The last of the 58' carriages, D183 BCL is done.   

 

 

I found the picture Ellis Clark used to advertise them:

 

 

With the D183 complete, I posed them with 4430, the last C1 I've finished.

 

 

Wagons are also now ready for weathering and couplings when they arrive:

 

 

 

The interloper is a Rapido SECR open which someone was selling half price at Hartlepool.   It was the first of their wagons I've had in my hand and I have to say it's nicely made and finished.   I'm unlikely to acquire many more unless I happen across them in a bargain bin, but it is a nice vehicle.

 

Finally, most attention focused on the J4.   I've made a bit of a Horlicks of the front end through not reading the instructions thoroughly enough, but I think it's salvageable.

 

 

I finished soldering the frames and got them into primer.  I'd added much of the body detail yesterday and some more went on today (the bits which haven't been cleaned up).   I also reshaped the cab to get rid of the rearward slope on the roof.  Chimney and dome are just posed for the moment.  The tender is on order too.   Progress will now slow as I have to turn my attention to more mundane matters, sadly.

[jwealleans]

I'm calling the body on this complete.   I think another go at the handrails is called for though and maybe with .45 wire this time.  The .33 doesn't cut it on the boiler although I think it looks OK for the cabside handrails.   I'm also not sure how it will stand up to exhibition use.

 

 

This series of locos apparently had springs above the frames behind the leading splasher.   I've yet to be able to see them in any photographs, so I didn't bother.   I've added the whistle operating lever and the sander operating rods as well, which are a very visible feature of these engines.   The boiler backplate was a monumentally awful fit, but with a crew in you won't see much of it.   By a happy turn of events the tender kit arrived today, so I can crack straight on with that.

Edited January 13, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

 I haven't bothered sorting the handrails out yet - the tender kit arrived on Thursday so I wanted to get stuck into that while I have a bit of enthusiasm.   Friday night I erected the frames and footplate to check height against the loco.   No real problems there.

 

 

This afternoon, with poor weather forecast, I got the bit between my teeth and cracked on.   I haven't built one of these before, but it's from the same stable as the Ivatt tenders (George Norton) and the same methodology applies.   Is the spirit of not bothering if you can't see it, the kit includes a sheet of brass and formers for the S curve of the front of the water tank down towards the coal hole to encourage the coal to move in that direction.   I didn't bother, it looked a right faff and it'll be buried anyway.  I'm afraid a simple bend to form a ramp will have to do.  Other than that there were no real problems with this.  You're expected to make your own handbrake standard and there were no buffers with it.   The loco kit included a set of 4 but they were Group Standard and so not correct for the tender.   I found these tapered ones in the spares box.

 

[jwealleans]

Busy day today at the bench - largely because tomorrow threatens to be too damn cold to work up there.   The sudden appearance of an extra show for Grantham has brought forward quite a few jobs which I thought I had all summer to do, but maybe that's no bad thing.   The bench has been a bit crowded.

 

Main focus is still the J4 - refitted the motor, added pickups, tested with the rods back aboard, another session fettling then a test run on the layout.   There's supposed to be a 50/50 chance of wiring these things backwards, so how do I manage it every time?   Anyway, with that sorted, added the tender pickups and plug connection and she's good to go.

 

 

There's also a short video of it running along the fiddle yard here.

 

Much of the other work has been making sure locos are staffed and equipped with fire irons.   I usually do this as I go along but some recent ones needed catching up and others had simply been missed.   It's a small thing overall but it adds to the general impression when you view a layout.  I think most of not all of the following have appeared in these pages before:

 

 

LRM J21.  Built by Ron Goult, bought from Tony Wright and i built a new set of frames and mechanism for it last year.   I use the Springside fire irons, which I paint as far as I can while they're still stuck to the card then glue in place and touch in the paint afterwards.   You can see that this one needs some touching in (which I have since done).

 

 

One of Ron Goult's products - D11, bought via Tony Wright (is there a theme here?) at Doncaster Show and not much touched other than adding tender pickups.   The loco/tender connection had been broken at Fareham so while that was attended to the other details were added.

 

 

Ks J3.   This loco has worked on Grantham since the start, which more or less coincided with me buying it.   Because it's never been any trouble it's been largely left to get on with it, but after I spotted it in a couple of photos it's had lamp irons and now a whistle as well as crew and tools.

 

 

This is the Hitchin C2.  Neither loco had a crew.  This has also had tender pickups fitted as when tested on Grantham it was a bit unreliable when moving round the shed.   Hopefully it's now fit for general service as opposed to main line only.

 

 

The other Hitchin atlantic, 3272, has had the motor removed and awaits a High Level mechanism.   The frames are battleship quality, but a SlimLiner will fit between them fairly easily.   It remains to be seen whether this one makes Harrogate as we have a few C1s and I understand there's a guest one coming along.

 

 

Crew need painting, of course and there's another batch on the way along with some ModelU guards for the brake vans I built after Warley.

 

 

Lastly an Ebay buy last summer which I'll be taking along to try out.   NuCast K2 with a Portescap, but when it arrived it's been really well built.  Beam compensation on loco and tender, fully lined (with transfers, must have taken hours) and now it's been cleaned up runs really well.   It looks to me as though whoever built it was a much better - or more careful - modeller than whoever owned it latterly as it's had a few bashes and scrapes.   It's also going to be a bit of a challenge putting tender pickups onto it, it's all very crowded underneath.   For the moment it'll do coal train duty at Harrogate so I can keep an eye on it and we'll try it round the shed if there's an opportunity.

Edited January 15, 2023 by jwealleans

[gr.king]

Busy busy. J3 no guard irons?  To me, they seem quite prominent / characteristic on the real things.

K2 somewhat "front down" but with upturned snout (lower front running plate piece)?

[jwealleans]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

J3 no guard irons? 

 

Small steps.   It'll get ideas above its station if I do too much at once.

 

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

K2 somewhat "front down" but with upturned snout

 

Front down as it's off the track.  I'll have another look at that front section.  I hadn't noticed it being out of alignment, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that it had been dropped.   Someone has not really taken care of it.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

I've been in a bit of a loco spell this last couple of weeks - some of it servicing the LSWR fleet from Ormesby Hall - but while the spirit was willing and the mojo flowing, I just went with it.

 

 

J4 is now ready for running trials as the weather is conveniently warming up.   

 

I went digging in boxes and found another candidate for attention.  During lockdown there were a conspicuous number of K3s appearing on Ebay.  I acquired one and then in a fit of forgetfulness bought another.   This is one of them, looked nicely enough built, mechanics a bit suspect but I think I got it for south of £75, which made it almost worth it for the wheels alone.   When I dug it out last week, the motor was all but inert, but with that removed the wheels and motion were free and smooth, so it was worth working on, I thought.

 

 

Bodywise, I want this one to be 1125 from the 1931 batch.   That meant a late cab, which was not what the kit had.   So, doing the opposite to most people modifying a K3 I removed the kit cab and fitted a Bachmann one.   It wasn't too bad a fit either.  I've had to remake the rear body fixing, change to LHD and take off some BR era details which the builder had left on, but it's not been a huge amount of work so far.

 

 

I had a High Level gearbox and motor in stock as it happened so those went in yesterday and we now have a moving set of frames.   I will have to fit some plastikard covers to mask the huge motor cutout, but that's no real hardship.

 

 

It will tow a Bachmann tender too  - this came from the donor loco which ended up as 229 with the fancy Hulburd water heater.  I've stripped off the vacuum tanks and am making provision for tender pickups here.

 

There have been a few wagons too of course.  This D & S GN open went round twice on Ebay before I bid on it.  I think people might have been put off by a scruffy corner in the seller's picture.   Scrape out the glue and solder it and job's a good'un.

 

 

The Airfix brake vans have now been staffed - with the same bloke in different poses, so let's hope they don't cross on the layout.

 

 

Finally the Toad E from the little collection of wagons I was given last year has had all the detailing added and a waft of primer to move it along.

 

[MrWolf]

Great bit of salvage work all round I'd say.

 

Must try not to be distracted back into building wagons by all this....

 

The Airfix brake vans really do look good, it's hard to believe that kit is well over fifty years old. I built two back when I was about twelve and was more than pleased that I had managed to build them straight, cobble in some old Hornby wheels and tin tension lock couplings.

It's the sort of thing I would build just for old times sake, even though they are way out of period for my layout.

[jwealleans]

Bit of loco testing this evening.   Recorded for posterity here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJFztWduPc

 

It shows the value of having a test track or small layout and also putting a load onto a loco.   The K2 and K3 were fine - the K2 visibly freed up with a bit of running, so I might just try that on a passenger on Grantham to give it a good long run.   The J4 was fine light, but a load showed the need for more weight in the tender and also a bit more freedom of movement between loco and tender.   I think the wires on the tender plug may be too rigid at the loco side - they're very floppy on the tender end.   I have added more weight at the rear of the loco as well as it had a bit of a tendency to flick the rear wheels off on curved joints and was a bit light footed generally.   There's a big gap in the frames under the motor which i could fill with lead sheet, but I'd have to take the motor off to do it now so it's not going to happen unless there's no alternative.   I still have space in the boiler to fill.

[jwealleans]

Starting to wrap up what will and won't be complete for Harrogate.   High Level are awaiting a component for the SlimLiner gearbox, so the Hitchin C1 is now unlikely to make the cut.   

1125 will be there, though, now identified and lined out.

 

 

I fancied something different last night and so I built this.   I've had a Hattons Warwell for a while - really nice wagon, very heavy but nicely detailed casting, runs really freely.   I was searching for something to put onto it and this came back to mind.  I'd built the tractor a few years ago so the pair seemed a nice idea.

 

 

The bowser only took a couple of hours with the smallest bit on the iron.  The tractor was a great deal more work - I'd forgotten just how fiddly it is and I managed to lose one of the microscopic etched parts from the front suspension.   It'll go into an open and might just be partly sheeted to draw a veil over my clumsiness.

 

Finally I had these printed by John Peck this week.

 

 

If you're an intensive user of the HMRS lettering sheet as I am, these are some of the bits you run out of first.   Large lettering NE, 10, 12 and 20 ton weights and some of the more common identifiers - with a FRUIT closer to the actual size (the HMRS one is too big).   I've lettered these with them today:

 

 

John has the master PDF, so by all means contact him directly if you'd like a set.  I emailed him on Friday morning and they came in Saturday's post, so you can't fault the service.

[Chas Levin]

All very nice Jonathan! Please would you post a photo of the bowser when you've added securing ropes or chains, to show how you've arranged them?

[jwealleans]

I will, Chas, but it won't be until after the Harrogate show as we have another plan for that Warwell there.

 

I have given it some thought, though.   What i have done so far is to remove the moulded lashing rings in the floor at each corner and drill out a .5mm hole.   The plan is to makeup a chain and turnbuckle and take it from one end ring, between chassis and body just inboard of the mudguards, across to the other side and  then back to the opposite ring at the same end.  If that looks as if it will not bend the mudguards too badly, that'll be how it's done.   Otherwise it might have to be from each end to the axle at the far end, I'll see when I sit down to do it.

[Chas Levin]

2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I will, Chas, but it won't be until after the Harrogate show as we have another plan for that Warwell there.

 

I have given it some thought, though.   What i have done so far is to remove the moulded lashing rings in the floor at each corner and drill out a .5mm hole.   The plan is to makeup a chain and turnbuckle and take it from one end ring, between chassis and body just inboard of the mudguards, across to the other side and  then back to the opposite ring at the same end.  If that looks as if it will not bend the mudguards too badly, that'll be how it's done.   Otherwise it might have to be from each end to the axle at the far end, I'll see when I sit down to do it.

Thanks Jonathan; I've been looking for things to put on warwells, warflats and similar low loaders too and hadn't come across David Parkins before, thanks for posting that link, looks like some interesting stuff.

 

The 'end ring > chassis/body joint > end ring' sounds good. do you mean that you're intending to secure the bowser entirely by that method, or will you also glue the tyres to the surface?

[jwealleans]

I'll almost certainly glue it as well, it's a bit heavy to rely just on the chains as they'll only be held taut by some thin soft copper wire.

Edited February 7, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

With the show imminent it's time to finish off any new stuff and concentrate on servicing and repairs to the existing stock.    These are all now finished except for fire irons for the Hornby pair which came from Wizard this week and are drying.

 

 

4040 suitably scruffy and with an injector concerning the fireman, perhaps?

 

 

1125.  The image I have of her at the bottom of the ECML in 1938 shows a relatively clean loco, so I've tried to emulate that here.

 

 

10000 was an acquisition at Doncaster last year and really just needed weathering.   It would be nice to be able to pull in the loco/tender gap, but then these locos won't fit in the box and there's not time or space in the frenzy at the end of a show to start messing about taking screws out.  At least they do now go into the box with drain cocks fitted, unlike earlier models.

 

 

2839 I've wanted to do for a while and in the recent Gresley Society B17/B2 special issue there was a picture of her on the turntable at Grantham in 1938.   That was enough motivation.   I picked the plates up from 247 at Doncaster.

 

 

Insul-meat van will probably go into the perishables train for Harrogate.   The other is SWMBO's Warley project which is now complete.

 

 

On the left a 51L FR open which was kindly identified for me on the pregrouping wagons thread.   It now has suitable buffers, brakes and axleboxes.   The brake handle gives it a very odd aspect here.   To right an ABS LNWR gunpowder van which was on the 247 stand at Doncaster and then still to hand when I fancied a quick build one evening last week.   The lettering layout looks odd but it's taken from the LNWR Wagons volume.

 

 

Finally this isn't for Grantham but is the last of the wagons Vernon kindly sent me some time ago.

[jwealleans]

Had a few days on light modelling duties after Harrogate, but I have finished this, which was a gift from Jesse.

 

 

Connoisseur LNER fitted Tube wagon, long discontinued in 4mm  and shot down from the still available 7mm kit.   It showed as well, there were a lot of overlays and laminations to do.   I had to make up some missing parts (you can see the plastic body brackets along the solebar) and I can also now see that I've not made the door springs on this side.   They'll glue in (it's painted now).