West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

Just a word to say that I shall be at Ely Show on Saturday operating Wickham Market.   If you're in the area, please come along and support the show.

[Chas Levin]

On 18/05/2023 at 05:45, jwealleans said:

Just a word to say that I shall be at Ely Show on Saturday operating Wickham Market.   If you're in the area, please come along and support the show.

Hope the show goes well Jonathan! I suggested we attend to my good lady wife, but sandwiched as the Ely show is between ExpoEM last weekend and Railex the next, she was able to help me see that it would be better not to overdo things.

My wife is very good at helping me see things that I might otherwise miss... 🙃

[jwealleans]

If I didn't know better, Chas, i might read that as suggesting that someone could go to too many model railway shows.   What a preposterous suggestion.

 

Off we trotted again, excited by the prospect of Wickham Market emerging for only the second time since 2019.   The day did not announce itself well when I arrived as nothing on the layout was working at all, but by the time the public were admitted we at least had trains running.   Not all of the goods yard was as cooperative, but I was able to do some symbolic shunting and start to familiarise myself with where the magnets are at least.   Had a good long chat with Pint of Adnams which is always a pleasant way to spend some time.   The shunting position is outside the layout, so it lends itself to conversation with the public.  It was nice to see some of the stock and especially locos which hadn't been used since 2019 running again.

 

In between holding forth and a small amount of shunting there was not much opportunity for photographs, but I did manage the odd one:

 

 

I'm afraid these are compulsory now.   Do tell me if it becomes annoying.

 

 

Gibson J15 seen through the gap between the Airey houses.

 

 

... and viewed across the goods yard.

 

 

The Framlingham Branch engine (F6, also by Gibson) simmering at the rear of the station.

[Chas Levin]

On 23/05/2023 at 18:57, jwealleans said:

If I didn't know better, Chas, i might read that as suggesting that someone could go to too many model railway shows.   What a preposterous suggestion.

 

Yes, quite: well, some people do have odd ideas...

 

Nice pics of the show - hopefully make the next one!

[jwealleans]

Been a while.   Mrs W brought a dose of COVID back from Germany with her which she kindly shared and it knocked the stuffing out of me for several weeks.  I still have a cough.   That and being busy at work while the weather was being kind meant not a lot of modelling has gone on recently.   

 

I can't locate the Dapol wheelset I know I had in the bottom of my toolbox for years.  If I find another set which I can positively identify then I may do some tests to see how they compare to Hornby in terms of running and trackholding.   Someone else (I can't recall who, but it was at Ely Show) commented on their poor running quite unprompted so the reputation at least still persists.

 

Bits and bobs I have been fiddling on with.... Lowfit now painted and with load posed in place.

 

 

I thought I'd illustrated the van which donated the underframe, but apparently not.  Here it is with 9' WB underframe from Evergreen strip, wire and the Mainly Trains brake gear etch.

 

From a deceased collection I helped dispose of recently, a pair of Ratio LMS vans.   There were about a dozen wagons which I've hung onto for myself as they make useful fodder for weathering demonstrations (e.g Thirsk Show at the end of July).  These had been nicely built, just needed the roofs off to add a bit of weight and wire replacement door handles.

 

 

 

Painted and varnished the towed fuel bowser.  The Warwell needs weathering and then the bowser can be chained down permanently.   I deliberately didn't try to put any unit markings onto the bowser  - having talked to Pete Goss about them when he had Rowlands Castle, it's just a whole world of questions which I don't want to get into.

 

 

Also for Wickham Market, it seemed appropriate to have a Wickham trolley.   ModelU do a crew pack for this and here they are aboard it.  It needs  bit more matting down and the wheels painted.  If I can find it I also intend to rope a wheelbarrow onto the trailer to hide the moulded load.

 

 

Finally I have finished the first Alan Rose Barnum I started months ago.   In a moment of complete stupidity I decided it would look good with the fancy handrails.  The printed one which came with it were a bit chunky for my taste so I made them up from .45 wire.   I could only do one pair a night before I went crosseyed, but in the end I'm quite pleased.  They are a little out of gauge, I think, but at that height unlikely to foul very much.   I see some of the knobs need straightening, we'll do that before it goes into the box with the others.

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by jwealleans

[BWsTrains]

9 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Someone else (I can't recall who, but it was at Ely Show) commented on their poor running quite unprompted so the reputation at least still persists.

 

I have some recently purchased Dapol spoked wheel sets and aside from being loose as measured by the BtB gauge, they were excellent in operation after adjustment.

[gr.king]

Most commendable handrail scrolling, especially in view of the tedium and the effect on eyesight which was bad enough when I did mine at the age of forty-something, and I hadn't recently had Covid.
More fun still if you use a soldered T-joint instead of the upper knob...

[cctransuk]

14 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

 

If I can find it I also intend to rope a wheelbarrow onto the trailer to hide the moulded load.

 

I removed the unconvincing 'ballast' load, and replaced it with a small stack of sleepers and chairs.

 

CJI.

Edited June 19, 2023 by cctransuk

[jwealleans]

That remains an option, John.   If I can locate the wheelbarrow (Coopercraft and awaiting deployment for the best part of fifteen years) I'll see how well it hides the moulding and decide then.

[Jesse Sim]

On 19/06/2023 at 05:58, jwealleans said:

Been a while.   Mrs W brought a dose of COVID back from Germany with her which she kindly shared and it knocked the stuffing out of me for several weeks.  I still have a cough.   That and being busy at work while the weather was being kind meant not a lot of modelling has gone on recently.   

 

I can't locate the Dapol wheelset I know I had in the bottom of my toolbox for years.  If I find another set which I can positively identify then I may do some tests to see how they compare to Hornby in terms of running and trackholding.   Someone else (I can't recall who, but it was at Ely Show) commented on their poor running quite unprompted so the reputation at least still persists.

 

Bits and bobs I have been fiddling on with.... Lowfit now painted and with load posed in place.

 

 

I thought I'd illustrated the van which donated the underframe, but apparently not.  Here it is with 9' WB underframe from Evergreen strip, wire and the Mainly Trains brake gear etch.

 

From a deceased collection I helped dispose of recently, a pair of Ratio LMS vans.   There were about a dozen wagons which I've hung onto for myself as they make useful fodder for weathering demonstrations (e.g Thirsk Show at the end of July).  These had been nicely built, just needed the roofs off to add a bit of weight and wire replacement door handles.

 

 

 

Painted and varnished the towed fuel bowser.  The Warwell needs weathering and then the bowser can be chained down permanently.   I deliberately didn't try to put any unit markings onto the bowser  - having talked to Pete Goss about them when he had Rowlands Castle, it's just a whole world of questions which I don't want to get into.

 

 

Also for Wickham Market, it seemed appropriate to have a Wickham trolley.   ModelU do a crew pack for this and here they are aboard it.  It needs  bit more matting down and the wheels painted.  If I can find it I also intend to rope a wheelbarrow onto the trailer to hide the moulded load.

 

 

Finally I have finished the first Alan Rose Barnum I started months ago.   In a moment of complete stupidity I decided it would look good with the fancy handrails.  The printed one which came with it were a bit chunky for my taste so I made them up from .45 wire.   I could only do one pair a night before I went crosseyed, but in the end I'm quite pleased.  They are a little out of gauge, I think, but at that height unlikely to foul very much.   I see some of the knobs need straightening, we'll do that before it goes into the box with the others.

 

Are you sure Covid didn’t addle your brain? Must have to think doing those handrails were a good idea….

[jwealleans]

 

Quote

Are you sure Covid didn’t addle your brain? Must have to think doing those handrails were a good idea….

 

Says the man who's just ripped up his fiddle yard... again....   I sometimes think Australians get too much sun.

 

Day off today, so before I escort Lady W to the seaside this afternoon, I've started another carriage.   This is the seventh for the Easterling set for Wickham Market and appropriately enough is a Diagram 7.   This seems to be the less common Gresley Composite, 2 1/2 - 5 instead of the seemingly much more in demand 3 1/2-4.   Oddly there was one of each in the Lowestoft portion.  I'm sure there was a good reason for it at the time.

 

I haven't done a detailed carriage build for a while, so let's take a good look at this one.   Here are the major components laid out just now:

 

 

MJT roof - shan't cut that to length until the body is built.   MJT ends for it are bottom left.

 

Sides are from Bill Bedford's etched list, though I've had these a while.   These come in two halves which are soldered together at the waist.  Bottom hinge holes are etched in, the top ones just have a witness mark so I've drilled those through .5mm and will slot them in due course.   I have added a strip of etch along the top at right angles to the side to make them more rigid and the next job will be to bend in the turnunder.

 

The ends are broken off the MJT floor.   I build my carriages to split at the solebar in the Comet and D & S manner, so those ends have to come off.

 

MJT floor, made up per the instructions up to this point.   It will have to be altered for body fixing in due course.   I've drilled holes for the bogie screws as i'm not using MJT bogies on this set.

Finally Mitchell - Pendleton bogies and hexagonal bolsters.  I acquired a number of these bogies on built Gresleys and initially just put them to one side, replacing with MJT for the Grantham stock.   They're advertised as made for EM/P4 use, so i didn't really consider them.   However, on examination it looked to be very easy to adapt them for OO and so that's what will happen.   They're very free running and this set was initially intended to be hauled by an RTR loco (Hornby B1/B17) so I wanted to give it a fighting chance.   As it happens I've acquired a NuCast B1 which may end up being used, but it would be nice to have multiple options.

[jwealleans]

Progress this evening.  The hinge holes in the sides are opened out with the point of a fine file so that the scrap etch we'll be using for the hinges will pass through.   This is much easier to do when the sides can still be in the flat.

 

Next the turnunder is applied.   I have a tool for this.

 

 

I claim no credit, the design is copied from one Tony Wright uses and it was made for me by an engineering friend as a favour.  The bottom of the side is clamped under the rod and the side bent up with the ruler.   You don't need much of a bend, but the sides have a tendency to spring back flat, especially in the centre, so I err on the side of over bending - it's easy to flatten it out again between finger and thumb.  I always assemble sides fully before doing this - I know MJT instructions suggest bending the lower panels before attaching to the sides, but you never get the same degree of bend on both and it makes a fiddly job even fiddlier.  

 

Once the sides are suitably curved, they can be attached to the ends.

 

 

The brass end goes inside the side, so you may have to notch the top return back slightly to allow that to happen.   The final assembly needs to be square but again is easily bent gently into alignment with finger pressure.  If it's too resistant, hold it in place and remelt the solder until it goes where it needs to.

 

Can you tell what it is yet?

 

 

Posing the bits together makes me feel as though I'm making progress, but also serves to check that everything fits.   To sit the body onto the underframe as here I've removed the end 10mm of the small underframe side at each end.   That would have to be done anyway in advance of the next step, which will be to fasten sides and underframe together.

Edited June 23, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Visit to Scottiedog's today, but I did manage some progress this morning before going.   First step here is to make the end plates which the fixing nuts will attach to.

 

 

These are scrap etch cut to approximate size then filed down to a snug fit.   Width isn't terribly important here, but setting the body screws a little way in from both sides and ends will mean it's a bit less crowded under there, especially if you're fitting sprung buffers.   The centre hole is for the coupling attachment.    10BA for the two fixing screws and 8BA for the coupling.   I usually use Bill Bedford etched couplings on coaches but in making stock for Grantham I have found that an 8BA bolt will also work for a Kadee with a 252 gearbox.   Other couplings may be available.

 

 

Nuts are soldered to the plate and the whole thing then soldered into the body.   Keeping it a very snug fit makes this process quicker and so it's less likely you'l melt the existing joints and lose a nut.   Do test the clearances on each nut before you solder the plate into the body, it's much easier to adjust them while the plate is free.

 

 

Now the body is ready to be offered up to the floor assembly, making sure it fits over the small lip without fouling and sits squarely length and width ways.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Jonathan, is there not a bit of a bow in the sides there; or is it a trick of the camera?

 

Either way, I find that bogie coach sides are prone to bowing if only from finger pressure in picking them up so i introduce a couple of spacers to break up the length. 

 

On a full open coach these have to be hidden up high so that they are invisible but on compartment stock you can use the compartment partitions. 

 

But this generates another issue as I don't like soldering partitions to the faces of the sides as they become a point for the sides to bend on.  My technique, which does not use the Comet floor with the fold up tabs to locate the sides onto is to introduce a stiffener to the sides at the top and bottom of the sides - although this is a self designed kit so they were built into the kit, pictures here will show what I mean.

 

https://highlandmiscellany.com/2017/06/15/dia-51-full-brake-test-build-part-1/

 

I then file the partitions 1/2mm narrower on each side and tack them to the strenthening stiffiner at the head and base of the sides.

 

Do like the gresleys coaches; I have a few kits in their boxes winking at me.................

[jwealleans]

Hallo Mark,

 

You're a step or two  ahead of me.   There is a bow - not huge, but clearly visible when the sides are offered up to the floor - and I'll tackle that fairly soon.   On kits like Kemilway where the floor is flat, I do put a piece of fret along the bottom of the sides to reinforce them.   If I do that here I'll have clearance issues.   When the roof is glued in place that will tend to pull the sides back in, but I was looking at using an internal partition, such as the one between the two classes, just to bring it back in line and strengthen a bit.   I can then make the interior in two halves.   I'm not sure whether I have any interiors for corridor stock, though, so I may just put a couple of bits of etch across between the tops of the sides to bring it back into line.

[jwealleans]

Sunday was the last running session at Dave Scott's Ingleby layout  before it leaves it's current home and is reworked into an end to end at Scottiedog Towers.   A quick break from the carriage building to look at Ingleby for the last time in this form.  A few overall views to start with:

 

 

An all-too-familiar sight - Dale in full flow.  Scottiedog seated to the left, Norman Venus standing.  Mr Jobling out of sight behind the layout and Paul doing all the work.

 

 

Whatever it was was seemingly still a problem - there were one or two glitches caused by heat closing up track gaps and there was a fair bit of grovelling underneath going on earlier.

 

 

Seems to be working now.  Dave Furmage to right.  Brad had left to do his shopping by this time.

 

The curved end boards have been found a new home for reuse, I gather and the straight boards will become the new end to end layout in due course.

 

I took a box full of wagons to run, the output from the last few months which hasn't gone into boxes yet.   Some of them are part weathered as I am doing a demonstration at Thirsk Show on July 30th and intend to use that to finish them off.  I'm pleased to say that all of them ran well.

 

 

Brad Seaman brought a Sonic A5 which we used to shunt for a while.

 

 

Bachmann Lowfit with Parkside underframe.  Can't recall whose kit the car is - it may have just been in a plastic bag when I acquired it.

 

 

Bowser on Warwell.  As with the Lowfit above, both need to be weathered before one can be secured to the other.

 

 

There was a bit of a North British theme in the stock.   I can't recall who did the etches for this brake van, it was just something a bit different which I fancied at the time.  It doesn't get out much so it was nice to give it a run.

 

 

This doesn't get out much either as it lives in my wagon building demo box.   Hurst Nelson build for the NB (I have a feeling they were called gondolas).   It's made from a Parkside NE quad.

 

 

These were both from the club stand at Newcastle show last November, built but not finished.

 

 

Ratio van from a collection I helped dispose of recently.  This has simply been repainted and wire handrails made.

 

 

ABS ofit and a GN open which came from the stand at Newcastle.

 

 

LNWR van by Dave Geen.   This came from Brian at 247 Developments.

 

 

ABS fish from Newcastle and the PMK Tube which was a part built gift from Jesse Sim.

 

 

PD LNER vanfit with 9' underframe.   

 

 

Mr Jobling brought some stock along as well - this is the scratchbuilt Pooley weighbridge van you can see on his thread.

 

 

This Loriot is by Hornby, I'm told.   It's a lovely thing, but I had to sit down when they told me how much they cost.   It's getting much cheaper to build your own again.

[jwealleans]

Right, back to the serious stuff.   The body is positioned on the floor and the captive nuts used to mark the fixing holes.  At this point you need to mark one end so you know which way to assemble it.   It'll almost certainly only fit one way, but you'll save time if there's a guide.

 

 

I drill the holes more or less right size then ease them with a file until everything fits smoothly.   This gives you a bit of flexibility if the marks haven't been quite right - you can see that I've had to extend the bottom fixing screw hole downwards to allow it to find the nut.   I also had to move the 8BA nuts closer to the end to allow the couplings to swing.  That was done by unsoldering them, extending the hole towards the end and then reattaching to the end plate while it remained in situ.

 

 

Mark spotted above that the sides had bowed out.   This shows you how far - about 1mm each side.  Once the roof is attached the side will be pulled in, but I have since added a piece of etch in the middle just to hold it in the right shape.

 

 

The main job tonight was to regauge the bogies.   Here they are from above and below.   These bogies are double sprung - the bolster (1/8" hex rod) rests on a pair of wires either side of the fixing bolt.   Each axle end is then in a sprung bearing and the axles are retained by a further pair of wires underneath.   They are very free running - I don't know enough physics to understand why, but empirically speaking, when trying to get white metal wagons to run freely, sprung ones run much better than those with conventional brass W irons, even rocking ones.

 

 

Here's a bogie in pieces.  Hopefully that makes it clear how it works.   The axle retaining wires are the ones which need moving.  They pass through etches holes in the central bolster and are too far apart to allow OO wheels to run.

 

 

All i do is solder in pieces of .5mm ID tube to hold the wires.  There's even a convenient shoulder on the etched bogie to butt them up against.  Other than that I haven't had to do anything to the bogies themselves.   I'm reusing the EM wheels, suitably adjusted.   Wickham Market uses Code 75 track, so I'm hoping I can get away with them on that.

 

 

It's good to be able to put the thing together and see it roll, that feels like progress.  Here it's next to the adjacent vehicle in the set, a D130 Composite, having the running height checked.   Seems to be pretty good at this stage.   Hinges next, so there'll be little visible progress for a couple of evenings.

Edited June 27, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Got the wind right into my sails tonight and the hinges are all attached.   To be fair there are only 36 - it's not like doing a quad-art or something equally masochistic.

 

 

This is all you need - a strip of scrap etch, cutters, pliers, a small file and a small screwdriver.   The etch is bent over at the end to give the solder more of a land to grab on to.  Where space is very tight I might just poke the etch through the hole and solder it, but you have more chance of them falling off.   The file is for tapering the etch to go through the hole, the pliers for bending and gripping and the cutters are self-explanatory.  The screwdriver is to space the cutters off the body on the bottom hinge so they're a consistent length.   I'll use a very small file to dress the cut ends and the pliers to straighten them up at the next session.

 

One thing to remember is to keep the area behind the windows as clear of solder as you can and clean off any which wanders.   It's easy enough when it's like this, but when the roof is on and the whole thing is painted, you'll thank yourself for leaving a smooth flat surface for the glazing to stick to.

[jwealleans]

With all the hot soldering now finished on the body, it's time to start on the low melt.   Ends and roof ends, castings on an MJT build of course and which give a satisfying weight to the finished article.

 

 

I have heard that Dart are looking at a different approach to the Gresley roof.   It is a fact that despite much filing and bending, it is not possible to get the end dome casting to sit with the cornice at anything but a jaunty angle.  Once the aluminium centre section is in place there'll be more filing and filling to straighten the whole affair.

 

 

Once the two end domes are fixed the roof can be measured and cut.   Cut slightly overlength and file down to a very snug fit, that'll save you some filling and sanding later.  I managed to cut at a slight angle so I will have some work to do there.   You can also see the step down from the aluminium to the cast end.  Dress this down with a file while the roof is not yet attached, this will also save filling and sanding work later.

 

 

Back to the underframe next and a method I've adopted since I started building coaches for exhibition use.   Underframe steps can be very vulnerable to bending or breaking off with handling, so I put lengths of .7mm wire underneath the step to give more surface to solder to.  This is done by drilling a .75 hole just above the solebar flange, putting a bent length of .7mm wire through it as above, then soldering in place.   The tail can be snipped off and dressed back so it doesn' t interfere with the trussing.   For a full length step I use one at each end and one in the middle.   I've been doing this for some time and no-one has ever commented on it as it's all but ivisible on the finished vehicle.   I did have a slight pause as I was looking at photographs of D7s and the first one I found had individual steps under each compartment door.   I think that may have been a wartimne economy measure, though, as thankfully all the others had a continuous step as here.

 

 

Steps attached, the trussing the brake gear supports are fitted and the high temperature soldering on the underframe is now done.

Until I remember something I've missed.

 

 

It's starting to come together and look like a Gresley vehicle, which is pleasing.   You can see here how the centre roof section ends have been shaped to match the ends more closely.

Edited June 30, 2023 by jwealleans

[Bucoops]

Interesting - I've never considered fitting the dome ends to the body then the main part.

 

I've not heard anything ref Dart re-working the roof method but it would be welcome as they are a pain to blend.

[Bucoops]

This is the best I can do with fitting to the aluminium section before fitting to the body.

 

[Jon4470]

I always find that the fitting of the roof and end domes on these carriages is the most frustrating part of the build.

 

I’ve mainly used the approach described I.e. fitting the ends first and then cutting the roof to length. Getting the cornices to align properly, though, is then a real faff……at least once I have resorted to putting a plastic strip along the whole length of the cornice to improve the appearance.
Last time I decided to build the complete roof off the body. The result was a much improved cornice appearance…… the trade off was a lot of filing of the ends and domes. Despite this, I ended up with a larger roof overhang over the ends than I wanted. (I take as much white metal as I dare out of the underside of the dome…using a dremel ………it helps the fit of the dome to the end but doesn’t help my nerves😃)

 

Having said all of the above, I’d never thought about filing the roof down a bit at the joint with the domes…doh! 

[jwealleans]

I've done both and this is currently the favoured approach.  It may change after this build, of course.   It all comes down to what you're most comfortable with, what gives the best result... maybe even down to what works best with the combination of castings you have.

[Chas Levin]

I haven't actually yet built a Comet/MJT coach yet and I must admit that the roof end castings and their joining with the aluminium length is one of the things that puts me off a little, so this discussion is very interesting as I will try one at some stage.

 

I am dealing with an MJT aluminium roof currently though, so as you are too Jonathan, may I please ask if you - or anyone else - has experienced problems with glue or filler not sticking to the aluminium, either at the point of application or after a disppointingly short time? If so, which brands or types didn't work very well and which would you recommend as being best?

[Bucoops]

I use 

18 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

I haven't actually yet built a Comet/MJT coach yet and I must admit that the roof end castings and their joining with the aluminium length is one of the things that puts me off a little, so this discussion is very interesting as I will try one at some stage.

 

I am dealing with an MJT aluminium roof currently though, so as you are too Jonathan, may I please ask if you - or anyone else - has experienced problems with glue or filler not sticking to the aluminium, either at the point of application or after a disppointingly short time? If so, which brands or types didn't work very well and which would you recommend as being best?

 

For the white metal dome to the aluminium roof, I did try solder designed for aluminium with zero success. Probably didn't clear enough oxidisation or something.

 

What I have found works is : Clean off as much oxidation on both mating surfaces, then put Permabond 910 super glue (designed for metals) for the initial grab and let it set.

 

Then make it slightly damp, then a smear of Gorilla Glue over the joint (water activates it - and you don't want much as it expands) and let that set too.

 

 

I have done one without the permabond, just the gorilla glue and whilst it worked, the expansion needed controlling so it didn't move the parts whilst setting.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Bucoops