34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Red Bull are hardly going to seriously chastise the guy: he's a racer, and taking half chances is the way to a win when it is tight. Mark Webber might have some hard words to say to him; most likely 'Thanks Mate, really appreciated that'. The way I read it, he got the run on Mark Webber, realised he was going too fast to make the ideal line round the corner, which meant Webber would be likely to get him on one of the next three or four corners, as demonstrated by the HamBut exchange of positions in the same location soon afterwards. So he tried to push Webber wide into the corner to make it more difficult for him, and found himself in a collision. Racing incident. Five winners in seven races, Schumi picking up the pace, it just needs those red cars to find a bit more speed. This has the potential to go down to the wire with several drivers in contention in the final race. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I could not believe it when Vettel did what he did - nearly splurted my Carlsberg all over the telly. I may root for Hamilton and Button, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate good driving by other racers. Vettel was silly, and I feel sorry for Webber who has had many miserable seasons before now and has finally got his big chance. Silly moves like Vettel's don't enhance the sport, even if it did help the team I root for. I suspect tha Vettel will not be on Webber's Christmas card list anymore. It was lucky for Webber that he had enough of a margin over Schumacher that he could pit for a nose and at least get third. Vettel could so easily have taken him out completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 30, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2010 A bit of a Red Bullsup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 If Red Bull can get their act together n stop breakdowns, collisions and silly mistakes, they would be romping away with the championship. Mclaren aren't quite as quick but have reliability and bloody good drivers in their favour. Over the whole season, I'd say reliability would beat outright speed any time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hi all It spices the races up a bit though, while one the subject of F1, any other rmweb'ers going to the British GP, or even marshalling? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 ... I feel sorry for Webber who has had many miserable seasons before now and has finally got his big chance. ... But as far as Sebastian Vettel is concerned this is his World Championship! I promise you he has already cleared a nicely polished piece of shelf in his trophy cabinet. And there are at least four more drivers with a realistic expectation of making it theirs, and a couple more who could conceivably do it, and are going to be hanging in there to the finish. So far the season has been nicely balanced, and none of the drivers in serious contention has a decisive advantage over other competitors, including their team mate where applicable. If it stays this close, the deciding factor on who gets the championship could well be whichever team first has an attack of managerial efficiency and issues orders. A driver with a team mate primarily there to run interference on other competitors is going to have a significant advantage. That was part of Schumi's success story at Ferrari: there was never any doubt who was there to be champion, and who was operating the mobile chicane... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ah but all the front runners are in with a shout this year. It'd take a pretty brave manager to say to one of them "you must defer to your teamate and back him up" when said driver is perfectly capable of beating said teamate. This has always been a gripe in F1, as it stifles racing and incidents like the red bull one would never happen. DC said yesterday, he was offred a drive with Ferrari but turned it down as it clearly stated in the contract that he had to defer to MC. He wasn't prepared to do that. Now we have 26 DRIVERS all competing not so much 13 TEAMS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbottle Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Oh to have been a fly on the wall of the RedBull bunker after the race! To digress slightly, apart from Hamilton & Button finishing 1-2 in Turkey, Brit drivers took the first three places at the Indy 500. Dario Franchitti won (for the second time), Dan Wheldon second, and Alex Lloyd third. Another Brit, Mike Conway, had the mother of all crashes and did well to escape with only a leg injury. Sheffield's Justin Wilson became the 200th driver to lead an Indy 500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 To digress slightly, apart from Hamilton & Button finishing 1-2 in Turkey, Brit drivers took the first three places at the Indy 500. Dario Franchitti won (for the second time), Dan Wheldon second, and Alex Lloyd third. Good to hear we're doing well - although I could point out that we've already had a couple of Brit 1-2-3's this year. Race 1 at Assen : 1. Jonathan Rea, 2. James Toseland, 3. Leon Camier. Race 2 at Assen : 1. Jonathan Rea, 2. Leon Haslam, 3. James Toseland. In fact in the first World Superbike Race; 7 of the top 12 riders were Brit's, and you get more overtaking in one lap than you do in an entire GP. Regards Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Well, that is true, but none of the overtaken vehicles are Ferraris. There is no finer sight on Earth than a Ferrari going backwards, and with Massa getting well duffed up, and Alonso all buttoned up, it was a glorious afternoon at Montreal. Slight shame for the racing that Red Bull got their tyre strategy a little sub-optimal, but clearly it was something of a guessing game, with no-one sure quite how the tyres would work best on the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Just turned the race off after the blatent 'Team Order' cheating by Ferrari. If Alonso couldn't catch AND pass Massa then Tough Tit! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blackdog Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Pathetic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 All teams do it when conditions suit. However this is blatant. The manager was interviewed after the race admitted what had happended , appaling both cars should be disqualified totally illegal to use team tactics. Is Ferrari bigger than F1 we wait and see ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 and they wont be done for it. The FIA and Charlie Whiting should punish Ferrari (which as I write this the bosses have been called in ). All I hope for is that Massa moves to first and Alonso gets at least 30 seconds to drop him behind Button (hehehe...) ruined the whole race really Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 All I hope for is that Massa moves to first and Alonso gets at least 30 seconds to drop him behind Button (hehehe...) That's a lovely wish, given Alonso's sometimes petulant behaviour, but unfortunately, if the stewards do find that team orders were given (and yes, we all know they were, but proving it is different - just see Rob Smedley's post-race interview...), then Massa was the one who changed the result, not Alonso, so Massa would have to be punished too. Not fair, I agree, but if Massa had decided to stick to his pace, he would have won. What I can see happening is that the FIA might choose to punish Ferrari, but not the drivers. It still wouldn't be fair on Felipe Massa, but I can't, in all honesty, see what else the stewards can do. They'll probably punish McLaren and Red Bull for daring to protest about the golden boys... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 If Alonso was genuinely quicker he should have been left alone to demonstrate it on the track and not whine to his team. Ferrari would still have got their 43 constructors' points either way - unless they took each other off that is. And who is to say that at this stage of the season, and with 25/18 points for 1/2 places, Massa couldn't have put himself at a similar points level to Alonso in a couple of races time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 The real problem comes when Alonso wins the championship only by the margin of points gained by this shenanigans. That is why it is wrong and unfair on the other F1 drivers. Other than that the fiddle had no impact on the championship they were going to be 1st & 2nd in all probability anyway. Once again it shows Ferrari's belief that they "own" F1 and brings the whole of F1 into disrepute. Personally I thing the sport took a big dive last year when Renault were allowed to get away with their wrecking of the sport, and the constant messing with the rules on fuel, tyres and everything. I'm glad it is just another one of those "sports" I don't follow and TBH couldn't waste my time with. Trouble is if you watch the news the BBC seems to think it is the most important thing to have happened in the world today. along with cycling (more "sport") and cricket (more "sport") and football (more "sport") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I'm not sure that I disagree with "team orders", after all we are always told that it is a team sport(unlike tennis for example), and has anyone been watching the Tour de France? It seems to me that the only way to make motor sport a solo effort would be a one-model championship with the cars being built to the same specifications by neutral mechanics and drivers being allocated a car by a random method immediately before the race. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 25, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2010 Ferrari fined $100k and reported to the World Motor Sporting Council. It didn't matter to the other teams, but people now bet on F1 - can you imagine how they feel? If Sir Michael Stoute were found to have switched the result of a race among his several runners in the Derby etc - he'd never train another horse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 To be perfectly honest, this is foul play and it stinks! I am a huge Motorsport fan and have been for many years - but sadly Formula one has gone downhill and this is just another example that demonstrates it. $100k is nothing to Ferrari, and the FIA have just demonstrated that Ferrari is bigger than F1. Disgusting has anyone been watching the Tour de France? Yes, I have avidly! Did we see Andy Schleck whining because of his mechanical problem - which effectively cost him the Tour? No... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I'm not sure that I disagree with "team orders", after all we are always told that it is a team sport(unlike tennis for example), and has anyone been watching the Tour de France? I've tried not to - it seems to be a sport where team orders (and, in the past at least, copious drug-taking) are the norm. I also can't understand the system whereby everyone gets the same time, as in today's final stage, which I happened to catch the last 5 minutes of. If they all got the same time today, what was the point of the final stage? Barmy... As for Ferrari, I'm not sure whether reporting them to the WMSC means that further punishments may yet follow. If not, $100,000 seems a token gesture. Yes, I know it would be a lot of money to you or me - a $100 fine would be unpleasant to me! - but to Ferrari, what does it matter? I still hope there may be scope for docking the team the points they got for 1st and 2nd, if not the drivers. After all, ultimately, the decision to fix the race came from Domenicali or Todt, not Alonso or Massa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 26, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2010 After all, ultimately, the decision to fix the race came from Domenicali or Todt, not Alonso or Massa. Probably not Todt - he is now President of the FIA! Poacher turned gamekeeper, probably with an eye on this mythical "the sport needs Ferrari" theme, which may mean the WMSC does very little but wag its finger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted July 26, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2010 Is Ferrari bigger than F1 we wait and see ??? Ferrari (and historically Renault) are F1 the £65,000 fine confirms it. Gone are the days of FISA (I hope) where these two teams cound get anything that beat them banned but the old bias still exists in the hearts and minds of F1. Shumacher's comments back this up this morning where he basically said he would have done the same thing if he had been team boss - do whatever to win irrespective of the rules..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Maybe they should open up a brand new F1 circuit at Nuremburg. Then Massa can say he was only following orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Why not just have them race with Scalectric and then let some lawyers argue for a bit then announce who won a few days later? F1 is going the way of professional wrestling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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