RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think a lot of loyal DJM followers are not seeing the Woods for the Trees here. If the market were that weak why would Hornby have another 3 new models coming in 2017? That makes 11 in total according to my count, hardly poor coverage of the range (granted not reaching to the more specialised corners) and all released ahead of DJMs. Their action in discounting existing issues makes a lot of competitive sense, swaying the uncertain to purchase their models while removing forward demand for already released numbers will be a commercial tactic which will also support demand for new issues in due course. After all marginal sales once costs have been covered are not a "Fire Sale" - they will be making some sort of a profit for sure. As I said previously, Hornby have played a good game here. I will be very surprised if the DJM King project survives beyond delivery of the last 14xxs. Hornby are still working on their older Year 2 and Year 3 production and sales model and this year's production would have been committed some time back - whether or not it all sells at original price is another matter entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrySVR Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Spoke with Hattons Kings are due May and August this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Great news Terry. All the speculation on this thread and all that was needed was for someone to ask Hattons. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Great news Terry. All the speculation on this thread and all that was needed was for someone to ask Hattons. Thanks. It's easy, you just go on their live chat.I did it with the 14/48xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Do we know the date when the boat will be sailing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Spoke with Hattons Kings are due May and August this year. Never in a month of Sundays. I don't want people jumping up and down on here in 5 months saying... Do we know the date when the boat will be sailing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 So are we not to believe the manufacturer/commissioner ? Terry actually took the trouble to ask them after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 So are we not to believe the manufacturer/commissioner ? Terry actually took the trouble to ask them after all. Put your money where... So, you'll take a bet with me then? No? As Clearwater correctly stated earlier - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89832-hattons-announce-oo-gauge-king/page-45?p=2595682&do=findComment&comment=2595682 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'll decline your wager thank you, it makes no difference to me when or even whether they arrive. But Hattons clearly haven't read their own interview as it still says May/August on their site. Noted for the next time someone suggests "why don't you ask the manufacturer" though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks Andy and you beat me to it on offering a wager! Per my post #1130, they have created a position where there are conflicting public statements. I know what the website says and if you call their call centre you will get the same answer. No surprise. However, we all know the time it takes from tooling to running sample to decorated samples etc to know that if they haven't tooled then the chance of achieving August 2017 is vanishingly small. There's enough threads on here that document progress to allow us to make reasonable guesstimates on time based on reported progress. By way of comparison, the engine shed blog last Friday showed a running version of the newly tooled Duchess due next December. IF Hatton can show a running King that they've kept under their hat, then maybe they will surprise us all. However, given they are not exactly publicity shy, and why would they be, the absence of such evidence is enough to make one incredibly sceptical of the claim of the website and Terry's direct answer. I'd be as delighted as anyone to be proved wrong here but to kid myself I'll be receiving the first of the Hattons Kings I have on preorder this summer is, at its kindest, wishful thinking . There's a simple answer - back t o #1130, Hattons Dave needs to clarify their position. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 They still have to get the rest of the GWR auto tank 0-4-2Ts released before getting further with the King, this was discussed already, we all do need to be patient about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks Andy and you beat me to it on offering a wager! Per my post #1130, they have created a position where there are conflicting public statements. I know what the website says and if you call their call centre you will get the same answer. No surprise. However, we all know the time it takes from tooling to running sample to decorated samples etc to know that if they haven't tooled then the chance of achieving August 2017 is vanishingly small. There's enough threads on here that document progress to allow us to make reasonable guesstimates on time based on reported progress. By way of comparison, the engine shed blog last Friday showed a running version of the newly tooled Duchess due next December. IF Hatton can show a running King that they've kept under their hat, then maybe they will surprise us all. However, given they are not exactly publicity shy, and why would they be, the absence of such evidence is enough to make one incredibly sceptical of the claim of the website and Terry's direct answer. I'd be as delighted as anyone to be proved wrong here but to kid myself I'll be receiving the first of the Hattons Kings I have on preorder this summer is, at its kindest, wishful thinking . There's a simple answer - back t o #1130, Hattons Dave needs to clarify their position. David Yes well you would think so wouldn't you. However if you refer to # 1083 you can see that when Hilux attempted a PM contact at my suggestion,that avenue of communication was unavailable.Curious,especially when with the 14/48/58XX tank communication was free flowing,albeit on open forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yes well you would think so wouldn't you. However if you refer to # 1083 you can see that when Hilux attempted a PM contact at my suggestion,that avenue of communication was unavailable.Curious,especially when with the 14/48/58XX tank communication was free flowing,albeit on open forum. The PM facility has always been disabled on that account, by request, so that routine enquiries which should go through Hatton's own email/website are not unanswered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yes well you would think so wouldn't you. However if you refer to # 1083 you can see that when Hilux attempted a PM contact at my suggestion,that avenue of communication was unavailable.Curious,especially when with the 14/48/58XX tank communication was free flowing,albeit on open forum. Thanks - I'd missed that post from Hilux. How surprising! I can understand why they might wish to moderate how they receive messages and prefer to follow the forum discussion. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks - I'd missed that post from Hilux. How surprising! I can understand why they might wish to moderate how they receive messages and prefer to follow the forum discussion. David Absolutely but just maybe now,as you concisely state,a little transparency would not go amiss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Current issue of BRM has a feature on Hattons, covers the King in a couple of paras. Without saying so directly, I got the impression they are taking stock to see where they are with the project as the market continues to evolve David Spoke with Hattons Kings are due May and August this year. Put your money where... So, you'll take a bet with me then? No? As Clearwater correctly stated earlier - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89832-hattons-announce-oo-gauge-king/page-45?p=2595682&do=findComment&comment=2595682 One person "gets the impression" . The other person gets something definite straight from the horse's mouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 One person "gets the impression". No, he has read the article quoting their MD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 This thread has become pointless until Hattons advise us of their plans. This constant you think, I think is getting us nowhere. Perhaps everybody could just be patient and await a report from Hattons? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Modelling the LMSR I do not need a King but I have ordered a DJM/Hattons King on the promise of it being to a "better" standard than the Hornby model and also to support DJM in the hope of maybe getting a "better" LMS loco in the future. If the DJM King does not appear I will not be buying a Hornby one, even at £99. I don't want one, I don't need one, but at £89.50, it would be rude not to. Can't see the point in missing out on a bargain for the sake of a bit of flag waving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 This thread has become pointless until Hattons advise us of their plans. This constant you think, I think is getting us nowhere. Perhaps everybody could just be patient and await a report from Hattons? Roy I suggest you read the Hattons BRM article Roy.Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 One person "gets the impression" . The other person gets something definite straight from the horse's mouth. Colin I was deliberately slightly oblique in my original post you quote. I'm not sure BRM, who pay for this website, would thank me for taking their copyright on their story and pasting it into their website. I'm sure they'd prefer people to buy the magazine and form their own opinion. I certainly have and formed my own view. Hence my phraseology. I take a slight exception to the implication that "gets the impression " that my viewis somehow is not to be trusted or wrong. I think the inference in Richard Davies' quote is clear. If he didn't mean what I've taken it to mean, I'm sure he would have already been onto the editor of the magazine, one A York, to give his forthright views and demanding a correction. No doubt that would have appeared on rmweb. Obviously I don't know exactly who Terry spoke to but I'm willing to bet that he will have spoken to the call centre who will have given the official answer as to when it's due. As I pointed out above, unless there is something they are concealing, then that statement is 100% at variance with the frequently observed timelines of model devlelopment. My read is that Hattons genuinely have not made up their mind what to do with this project however they are still at the stage where they are yet to spend the big bucks., i.e. Pre tooling, i.e. Highly improbably to make August 2017. Because they don't have anything positive to say, they are saying nothing. Because they don't have anything to say, to remove their prior dates of release would create more of an issue. Therefore, they will make an announcement once they've reached a decision on whether to invest in the tooling. iId note on the J94 thread, DJM incidcated they had spent over £100k on tooling those variants. Logically, the King will cost more than that. Therefore it's a big decision whether to proceed for a company of Hatton's size. Hence they are trading carefully. They hide that not updating the shipping date is the least worst option. In the meantime, the front line sales team is left to peddle a line that looks, from the outside, unsustainable. Let's be honest, it wouldn't be the first time that any company has left its staff explaining a position to customers that senior management know is not the case. I agree wth Roy above (and have said so myself above, twice), that Hattons need to clarify their position or else risk alienating their customers here. As I said above, happy to be proved wrong but I don't think I will.be. Please feel free to point out where you think my argument is flawed. Thanks David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 I suggest you read the Hattons BRM article Roy. Neil I have (and already had) and that does not stop this thread being pointless. Hattons in the article have intimated one thing, Hattons today something else. Until we have a clear statement we are just going round and round. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2017 Unfortunately, it does appear that Hattons have created this confusion by providing inconsistent information. The magazine article may be right, the answer to a customer may be right, but it appears difficult for both of them to be right. I'm more inclined to believe the magazine article, but that's just a feeling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 I have (and already had) and that does not stop this thread being pointless. Hattons in the article have intimated one thing, Hattons today something else. Until we have a clear statement we are just going round and round. Roy In that case please accept my apologies for inferring you hadn't. However I feel it inevitable, on a thread discussing the perhaps forthcoming product it's not surprising to see the article discussed.Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 In that case please accept my apologies for inferring you hadn't. However I feel it inevitable, on a thread discussing the perhaps forthcoming product it's not surprising to see the article discussed. Neil No problem Neil. Discussion is healthy, this "my info is better than your info" seems pointless to me when we have no fact on which to actually base anything. Whilst I am unlikely to buy a King, I gave a real soft spot for GWR engines and would love to have something available to make me change my mind! Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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