RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi all, GW - I did make some provisional enquiries about special liveries (X-men, not Superman though) but had no response. I will try again after this weekend so that if it is an option we can offer it when we come to the livery selection process. However, my own feeling is that the cost of the licensing would add a significant amount to the model, so be prepared! Thane - I felt much as you when sound was first mentioned! However, when I listened to this clip on You Tube I was sold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzj1veJZ1A We are getting Legomanbiffo to record a fresh set of sounds for this model, and of course those purchasing the sound fitted models will have chips and speakers at both ends.. cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes! Well done Mike and Ben, you should be proud of yourselves for having done this work and got us to the position where Jason can say that the UK market deserves the Pendolino! Thanks Jason and Rapido for effectively fronting us the last quarter or so of the total money to get us from our deposits to the final product. This is really good news. Thank you all! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well done guys, I am still not convinced Kickstarter will deliver a lot of models in N because of the value of orders required but I think in this case it proved that there was sufficient market for a Pendolino in N; enough for a couple of guys in Canada to turn a small profit whilst giving the modellers something very special in return. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think Rapido have made this commitment for two reasons, it turns a small profit of course and IT creates a huge amount of goodwill and PR for them. Great Western Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think Rapido have made this commitment for two reasons, it turns a small profit of course and IT creates a huge amount of goodwill and PR for them. Great Western Hi GW, Absolutely - Jason said as much in his post above. He added that it represents a great way for Rapido to get into the British market and for N Gauge as a whole my view is that anoher manufacturer - especially one with such a reputation for quality and fidelity - can only be a good thing. However, let's not forget that those of us simply after Pendolinos for our layouts or collections will be able to get what we want too - with the option of factory fitted sound - a first in N! cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 We have fewer leaflets left than this morning now. Also just restocked the exhibitions table for leaflets. Not had chance to speak to anyone picking them up though as been a little busy to notice them being picked up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2015 If I were to pledge (I am not a British N gauge modeller but this would be nice to run with my Japanese models) and this goes into plan B could I ask the following question please: If I pay the 50% up front and the project gets delayed significantly will there be a get out clause? Apologies if this is a bit negative but we all know what model schedules are like and with the best will in the world I think it possible this schedule might slip. I am OK to pay the 50% up front but I think if things do slip it'd be nice to have some sort of get out given that we're paying a fair sum up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 If I were to pledge (I am not a British N gauge modeller but this would be nice to run with my Japanese models) and this goes into plan B could I ask the following question please: If I pay the 50% up front and the project gets delayed significantly will there be a get out clause? Apologies if this is a bit negative but we all know what model schedules are like and with the best will in the world I think it possible this schedule might slip. I am OK to pay the 50% up front but I think if things do slip it'd be nice to have some sort of get out given that we're paying a fair sum up front. Hi jjb, No problem - a fair question. One of the reasons Mike and I went with Rapido - apart from Jason's great enthusiasm, reputation and better terms - was that they have lots of experience in dealing with China and great contacts. They laser scanned the APT-E in June 2014 and had painted test mouldings on display at the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition in November, which is pretty impressive, and the model is, I understand, on schedule for delivery in the Spring of this year. We are allowing a little longer for our Pendolino - just over 12 months - and we are confident that Rapido can deliver. However, in direct answer to your question we would need to assess what seems a "significant" delay - notwithstanding what I have written above, the major manufacturers seem to average around 2 years from announcement to delivery, so I guess anything beyond that might be considered significant. And in those circumstances I guarantee Mike and I will be jumping up and down (possibly on Jason!) as we'd be fed up waiting for our models too! cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ian, That's a fantastic display, many thanks. Let's hope anyone interested got the message that it's tomorrow night or bust! Tomorrow is the last day of pledging; it's all or nothing by 2200G tomorrow evening... In terms of pledges we are at 80% now, with just over 40K still needed.... and just 30 hours remaining. It's nail-biting stuff. If you want to watch the pledges count down you can follow on our site here www.ngaugependolino.com or here on Kickstarter itself https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 With the speed that Jason and all the guys at Rapido have worked to get the APT-E to it's current stage shows how committed they are to projects they decide to go with which is a massive plus as unlike other more well established makers who seem to take there time and rest on their existing range! JJB I am sure others will agree especially Mike and Ben, that the chance of delays would actually be minimal as well there is guaranteed sales and the money is already well at least 50% of it anyhow to get the model made, which purely from a business perspective ties them in to getting it done sooner rather than later! If for what ever reason they took there time and people decided to back out then it could end up been a large loss! For me I know I am in no matter what but part of me hopes that this will get other firms to start to seriously look at the Modern network and make concerted efforts to expand the ranges available especially in the DMU / EMU front which makes up 75% of passenger services in the UK post privatization. Class 175 / 180 anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hi Ben, Thank you for that, it is much appreciated. I'll um and ah tonight and see, regardless of that I do appreciate your passion and commitment to this project and genuinely wish it success, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hippo Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2015 I've done it. I've um'd and er'd for a while now and though s0d it. So there is one extra 11 car with sound. Good luck chaps not long now. Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Personally Im a bit disappointed that Rapido are to step in to ensure it works. It harms all future crowdfunding projects in that it will dissuade people from pledging as 'sure the manufacturer will step in at the end so I dont need to pledge' As someone who is seriously looking into creating a project for a very niche market (Neither N scale or British outline) this is not good. Im aware that despite Rapidos enthusiasm for a lot of things, they did not take this step out of the goodness of their hearts either. Its a serious business decision at the end of the day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) LaGrange You make very valid points. It hasnt done any favours for the kick start concept at the same time I know all will admit it was a huge project to start with even so the gamble is higher. What it has shown is if makers are willing to place the decisions on what to produce next in the hands of the modellers then not only will they please the modeller but also then can guarantee sales. Also it proves that modern N gauge is sought after in what is a somewhat overlooked area by the big 2 makers. Edited January 17, 2015 by acko22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I've pledged for a 11 vehicle Standard scheme non sound set, however what kind of proof do I get from kickstart? I've got a email which says what and how much I've pledged is that suffficent for the rapido discount ? Do I need to email the project managers with my details or am I automatically on the list ? Regards Great Western Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hi LaGrange I disagree. We said right from the start that there was a chance that Rapido would go ahead if we didn't reach the target and if anything I feel this was an added incentive. So when Jason indicated that we'd reached that threshold I thought it only fair to let everyone know. Also, you'll see we have structured our pricing to incentivise the Kickstarter by making it clear that only those who pledge before the deadline will qualify for the lower prices. It may not be the only reason but we have seen a significant surge in pledges since we announced this. Besides, I would argue that if anything this project will encourage other crowd-funding schemes as it shows they can work - even if they don't! cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hello Great Western, Please take 30" to subscribe (without obligation) at our website www.ngaugependolino.com using the box on the right side of the home page. This will help us to match up pledges to people. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Okay, I'm in. The model railway budget's been used up for the next six months or more, but I'm in. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 Personally Im a bit disappointed that Rapido are to step in to ensure it works. It harms all future crowdfunding projects in that it will dissuade people from pledging as 'sure the manufacturer will step in at the end so I dont need to pledge' I couldn't disagree more - the reality is that Rapido would not have the confidence to do so without the demonstration of the market that the Kickstarter campaign provided. I think the issue you identify of reluctance to commit to pledges is one that is difficult to overcome, but certainly in our case there is a demonstrable advantage to pledging. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 First, well done Ben and Mike... you've done it! As someone who pledged for the Kickstarter purely to support the project (but to also make a fast buck), I'm in a serious dilemma now whether to continue with my order if Plan B gets enacted. Having the 2 year exclusivity gone, now means that Pendolinos will be much more readily available (albeit at a slightly higher price). So the "making a fast buck" becomes a bit less appealing (on a supply/demand basis). As a seller, I am now "competing" with Rapido's direct sales. I wonder how many other backers who only pledged because they wanted to see the project succeed (not because they really wanted a Pendo) are thinking the same thing? Rapido may find that if the project goes to Plan B, the number of committed orders falls from what was pledged during the Kickstarter campaign as people back out (for this and other reasons). Not an issue for Ben or Mike but one for Rapido. But I'm sure Jason has thought about this already before offering Plan B... Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) It's great that Rapido are going to do this anyway, but it would be much better if it succeeds on it's own. It's 84% reached so needs about 34K to reach the £210,000K target that's £2.6K worth of pledges an hour for the next 13 hours for Kickstarter to succeed. As Lyneux has said, I wonder what the target would actually be, if all those that have pledged more than they really wanted to just to see the project proceed, now either don't pledge at all or drop their commitment down substantially? It's great that the hard work Mike and Ben have put in has paid off. I don't want this post to come across as negative as that is certainly not my intention, but a thought does need to be made for those that only supported this to see the kickstarter work. Cheers Ian Edited January 18, 2015 by traction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2015 I cannot speak for the backers, but I would have thought that the idea was to get an N gauge model Pendolino produced. In that case this kick starter campaign has already been successful and achieved its aim now Rapido has made their decision. The kick starter bit is a means to an end, if it has shown there is enough demand for Rapido to take the project on regardless then the aims of getting a model have been satisfied and it is a great result. I do think this will alter the kick starter dynamics for this particular project but it would have been wrong of the backers not to reveal Rapido's decision I think. By telling people up front it allows an informed decision. Maybe the kick starter target will be met but if it isn't then we have the opportunity to buy a regular release from Rapido. If I was an avid UK N gauge modeller then I'd pledge without question however my N gauge interest is Japan and whilst I'd like this as a nice addition given that I travel in the things regularly it is quite a bit to pay up front for something that is not really a core interest. The option of not pledging and maybe then buying when it is released (assuming the kick start fails, and to be honest I'd like it to succeed) is probably the best option for me even if the price goes up. On other kick starts, if anything this decision will encourage others as it demonstrates that even if you cannot meet the target the campaign can influence a manufacturer to make the model. Even if not immediately as in this stage I'm sure other manufacturers will be monitoring kick start efforts for their own market research. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) What I don't get is why doesn't Rapido just pledge any remainder of funds that are possibly missing to the Kickstarter fund to push it over the line. Unless this is plan A + a half The reasons are 1. You get all of the money up front now. 2. You get all of the details of who's buying and they are committed to buying. 3. You may loose some people if the Kickstarter fund is unsuccessful eg. Me I did pledge to support the hobby and the idea of the Kickstarter model (ok only a 2 car set but better than nowt) however I'm not interested in what I pledged for so if the Kickstarter funding doesn't work then as they say "I'm out" as it will be made regardless there maybe others who wont follow through if it goes to Plan B on the other hand you may gain people who couldn't commit today. But its a risk 4. Rapido wont have to put in as much money up front as they would with Plan B. You could still offer a 50% deposit option for a limited time for those who want a set but don't currently have the full funding. I just don't understand why you would throw away guaranteed the current £176,992 in pre-sales But hats off to you for the effort you put into the Kickstarter model and I do hope it succeeds today on its own merits... Steve Edited January 18, 2015 by Steve-e Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Ben/Mike or indeed others, please correct me but I believe: - 1) That individual backers can only bid up to a certain amount (otherwise the principle of crowd funding is somewhat defeated) on which basis Rapido couldn't even if they wanted to. 2) Rapido will not get all the crowd sourced cash "up front". It is effectively held in trust for the subscribers and only paid in tranches at agreed stages in the process subject to Ben and Mike being satisfied. 3) Even if they could why would Rapido pledge £33k only to than have their own cash held in the above "trust" and released back to them in stages, that makes absolutely no sense to me. 4) As far as cash-flow is concerned, a 50% deposit up front provides funding to support R&D etc and under the "kickstarter" funds would not be up front anyway. 5) Given the discounted price for backers of the "Kickstarter" being available under the Rapido proposition for a limited period who actually loses? Answer to me appears to be only those speculating to make a fast buck - hopefully most will be modellers who actually want the model even if only as a "rule 1" purchase or to underpin the credibility of future "Kickstarter" campaigns. Just my perspective on things, Edit: - I meant to add that I am still hopeful that to make the principle of future "Kickstarters" easier to launch the funding target is reached and "Plan A" proceeds.. Regards Roy Edited January 18, 2015 by Roy L S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 I couldn't disagree more - the reality is that Rapido would not have the confidence to do so without the demonstration of the market that the Kickstarter campaign provided. I think the issue you identify of reluctance to commit to pledges is one that is difficult to overcome, but certainly in our case there is a demonstrable advantage to pledging. Cheers, Mike I think that there needs to be a leasons learned thread, so i started one: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94926-the-future-of-kick-starters/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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