N Gauge Class 390 Pendolino (post Kickstarter) with Rapido

[bmthtrains - David]

Ordered mine today - I'd thought maybe the order numbers started with a 300 so I was the 80 somethingth to order, but if we really are nearing 400 already that's fantastic!

 

It made me realise how long it had been since I bought any rolling stock - my budget may be in student mode now, and currently without a layout, but other than a class 70 as a birthday present last year, there hasn't been anything else new in my cabinet for a couple of years. Nor have there been any new releases that I've been craving for, all the Dapol releases mysteriously vanished again, so the 390 has become the highlight of my modelling year!

 

I can see some excellent articles in the model rail press following this. I wonder when it will sink in to Ben and Mike, and to a lesser degree, everyone who has supported the kickstarter, exactly how big a wave this going to make in the hobby....

 

There will be plenty of "I want one of these so here's my kickstarter page" failures I am sure, but the big manufacturers will be watching this extremely closely (and nervously) wondering how they can account for this shift of power in their business models...

 

David

[Revolution Ben]

Hi David,

 

Mike and I - and perhaps Matthew too with the GWR Streamlined Railcar - found that simply getting the Kickstarter project going is not trivial.  Kickstarter themselves are quite fussy about the projects they accept and we had to go through several iterations of the submission IIRC to tick all their boxes.

 

Having said that, it can be done, obviously, and yes it would be a shame if a slew of indifferent, uncommitted or just unlucky Kickstarters poisoned the well.

 

Also, Mike and I both feel, having run a campaign, that Kickstarter itself is not optimised for both the type of products we want, and also the nuances of the British model railway market.

 

As for the manufacturers, well our model is being made by one - Rapido.  It's not as if Mike and I are starting from scratch and going to China with a bag full of money and some drawings! 

 

I think this funding model represents opportunities for manufacturers if they are ready to work on both their own, mainstream range but also with people like Mike and me who can approach them with guaranteed market already in place to produce "niche" products.  They might not make much profit on the thousand or so models they make for us and our backers, but they get the tooling and in a couple of years would be free to make more models -for a market whose appetite will have been whetted.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ben A

[60006]

Great to hear we've got so many orders in still. I'll be putting in for my Poppylino + an 11-car set on pay-day next week.

Looking forward to seeing how laser scanning goes.

[m0rris]

I think this funding model represents opportunities for manufacturers if they are ready to work on both their own, mainstream range but also with people like Mike and me who can approach them with guaranteed market already in place to produce "niche" products.  They might not make much profit on the thousand or so models they make for us and our backers, but they get the tooling and in a couple of years would be free to make more models -for a market whose appetite will have been whetted.

 

I believe that the Kickstarters could be a great opportunity for the manufacturers, if they seize it. If, for example, Graham Farish were willing to entertain Kickstarters for projects such as a TPE 350, producing a 450 from their 350 or even something as big ticket as doing an 92 using new moulds and the common components from the 60, I believe it could work in their favour. They would obviously need to agree terms with whoever is running the kickstarter, but after that they can perform the design, manufacture and shipping of the models... Something that is beyond most of us mear mortals. If they close ranks and try and shut out Kickstarter projects then they'll only be losing business, business that can be wholly funded inadvance and can help them maximise the returns on thei investments!

[Steve-e]

But do the big boys need to go down the Kickstarter route and pay Kickstarter 5% + payment handling when they could host the pre-orders themselves.

 

For example Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol/Rapido could host the pre-orders themselves and once the target is met they make the order. It just needs the right marketing which Ben/Mike were good at. I beleive this is the way Rapido currently work it just hasn't caught on over here yet but it looks like were getting there.

 

 

The Pendolino project probably actually achieved its target for the costs of production the final missing % was probably made up from the fees + VAT . The only thing that Kickstarter helped with was showing Rapido there was a market.

 

 

I think Kickstarter is ideal for the smaller business needing a cash injection to get their idea off the ground.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Steve-e

[m0rris]

Fair points and I think what I failed to stress was the Kickstarter 'novelty' factor. Whilst there is little difference between a Kickstarter attempt where you get your models at the end and a minimum number of pre-orders required for a project to go ahead. I believe that the idea of crowd-funding has an edge on "minimum number of pre-orders" as it gives funders a sense of ownership, that the project would not have happened without them. I'd also suggest that there's nothing stopping Bachmann/Hornby etc coming up with their own crowd funding system with running totals etc that looks a lot like kickstarter but isn't... If they thought it was worth investing in such programme.

[Great Western]

Hello all,

 

Mike and I are both delighted with the retention rate of backers.

 

We'd like to think that it is, in part, because we have been as open as we can with people about what we are trying to do and why the change is necessary.

 

It's unfortunate that we didn't make the Kickstarter total - especially coming as close as we did - but there we are.  Luckily Rapido - and Jason in particular - have been fantastic about it and I think have helped us enormously by agreeing to honour the Kickstarter prices.  For me that's really kept the shine on the project.

 

Incidentally I have now finalised plans for the Laser scanning which takes place later this week.  I will ensure photographs are posted here with an explanation of how the entire process works.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Id assume scanning a locomotive is pretty straight forward (if your a scanning pro of course!) but a 11car 390 is a whole different kettle of fish. Will Alstom be spitting the unit to allow scanning of the inner ends of the vehicles ? If not, how is this achieved ?

 

Certainly looking forward to seeing the pictures.

 

Great Western

[Danfilm007]

Just checked - found I'm Order No 221 - hope I don't get a Super Voyager through by mistake

[njee20]

Order #435, great to see. I just hope that is a true reflection of the retention of Kickstarter backers, rather than the link being shared around!

[Revolution Ben]

Hi GW,

The scanning is aimed at ensuring we get the shape of the nose and the profile of the vehicles right. All the trailers are, in effect, the same vehicle, with different window layouts.

For this reason we actually only need to scan one power vehicle since all the required data will be there; I understand the model CAD designers can almost "copy and paste" details such as window outlines, roof shape etc.

And of course we also have an extensive set of 2D drawings sent by Alstom that the CADs can be checked against.



I'll post some photos illustrating the scan process and hopefully explaining a little more after it's done.

Cheers

Ben A.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Ben A

[Great Western]

Blooming heck, yoy,could build your own 1:1 scale 390 with that lot !

 

Excellent, really look forward to watching this wonderful project.

 

Has anyone else noticed that 'further models' section on the website.........fingures crossed for some more non core EMU and DMU models funded like the 390 when this one shows how good it is.

 

Great Western

[PaulCheffus]

Order #435, great to see. I just hope that is a true reflection of the retention of Kickstarter backers, rather than the link being shared around!

Hi

 

That shouldn't be difficult to check as the email was only sent to backers so it should be easy to check the email addresses against those.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Revolution Ben]

Order #435, great to see. I just hope that is a true reflection of the retention of Kickstarter backers, rather than the link being shared around!

 

Hello all,

 

I imagine as Paul says above that Mike can cross reference emails against pledgers; he certainly hasn't mentioned to me any evidence that the link is being shared.

 

But would anyone share it?  I think Rapido have been very decent to extend the Kickstarter offer to our backers, taking unfair advantage of that generosity would be pretty low, IMO.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Ben A

[njee20]

Totally agree, and no reason to think its been happening. As you say - easy to check anyway!

[Revolution Mike]

I've not checked every order, but I've been keeping my eye out and not noticed anything untoward.

 

I think that when the Kickstarter backers exclusive period ends next weekend that I will do a data check - if we find anyone trying to take advantage then we can cancel their order.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the order numbers - we didn't start at one as I forgot to reset the order numbers after testing.

 

There are still a fair few Kickstarter backers who haven't transferred over yet, but we are very happy with the level of retention to date.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Mike and I travelled to Crewe today to laser scan the Pendolino but we were confounded by the snow!

 

Met up with Gareth - who sorted the RBL Poppylino deal - and were shown in by the lovely Emily from Virgin but laser scan company called us while we were en route tell us that it was going to be impossible to scan the Pendo as it had a gentle coating of snow!!

 

 

If we'd scanned it like this we'd have a lovely model of a snowy Pendo - maybe the Traindeer??

 

We're going to try a again next week....

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

These photos illustrate the problem:

 

 

 

For us the profile, nose end and roof are the most important part of the scan... And they'd have been ruined by the snow...

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

Would have been very much a Pendolino for a winter scene layout only!!!

[Nile]

Next time take a broom, with a long handle.

[Andy Y]

 

Maybe the day didn't go to plan but it still gave Ben and Mike chance to get up close to the Pendolino and make notes ahead of the scanning.

 

The weather wasn't really fit for photography at some points let alone scanning.

 

 

The team gather ahead of a tour of the Pendo.

 

 

A toast, courtesy of Gareth and a fine bottle of port, is made to the start of the physical phase of the project.

 

 

Gareth presents a regimental shield from the 1st Battalion of the Mercian Regiment to Ben and Mike for the fundraising for the Royal British Legion.

 

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

A tiring and in some ways frustrating but still enjoyable day!

 

I can't stress enough how grateful we are to Gareth for his involvement in getting the Poppy Pendolino off the ground.  I am sure we would not have succeeded without his contacts within the organisation.  Orders received so far mean we've raised at least £800 for the Royal British Legion, and I'm confident that total will increase as the project goes on.

 

Thanks too to Andy for the photographs, and to Paul for his help on the day - albeit there wasn't as much to do as we'd expected but nonetheless we will be trying again next week when hopefully the weather will be kinder.

 

Of course when we've completed the scan we will post some more photographs and descriptions here for those interested in the process.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[acko22]

Well what a day!!

 

First bit of proper snow all year and it decided to fall last night and today, now that's sods law!

 

It was great meeting Ben, Mike, Andy and Paul, as to the Poppy Pendolino I was only a very small part of it and thanks must be with Ben and Mike for going with the idea to raise an amazing amount and a massive thank you too everyone who has pledged for the Model.

 

Thankfully I have never needed help from the legion and touch wood I never will, but I know that money will help servicemen, veterans and their families when they need it the most.

 

P.S Andy thanks I think plastic surgery for my mental ears is my next purchase

Edited January 29, 2015 by acko22

[Revolution Mike]

Depite the disappointment of not being able to scan the Pendo, it was still a good day out and I've got some useful detail shots and a few measurements of things like the pantograph.

 

Thanks to Gareth for the plaque and port (I resisted the temptation to get well and truly sozzled on the train back to London!).

 

Here's to better weather next week!

 

Cheers, Mike

[Great Western]

Is this what remains of 390033, the one that came off in Cumbria ?

How will the access Platform effect the scanning of the trailer vehicle underside ?

 

Blinking snow! lol

 

Do Virign own the trademark etc for the Traindeer scheme, a special livery would be nice, rather than standard VT verions......

 

Great Western

[Revolution Mike]

Hi GW

 

Yes, it is the remains of the Grayrigg crash set - one driving car and one trailer car (which is very bashed up and bodged together on one side). Now used for training by Virgin.

 

We don't think the access platform will be too much of an issue as the critical parts for us are the nose and overall profile shapes. We don't actually need a scan of the whole body (though we will do as much as is practical).

 

Cheers, Mike