N Gauge Class 390 Pendolino (post Kickstarter) with Rapido

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Igor,

 

Yes, Acko has explained things pretty well.  Let me add a little context:

 

Due to the relatively small size of the British N-gauge market, and its price sensitivity, a correct 9-vehicle Pendolino (with tooling required for 5 different types of car) makes no financial sense for a traditional manufacturer.

 

However Rapido are a small, imaginative manufacturer who've said that if we can raise £210,000 they'll work with us to develop a model and produce 1000 units.  Of these, we get 800 (or equivalent) and they get 200.  In this first run then if more people order than 1000 we can produce a slightly higher number.  They've also agreed not to run the tools again for at least two years.

 

This only makes financial sense for them if they can recoup when they run these tools and can charge for the models, but at a higher price because they need to factor in retailer mark-ups.

 

This is not a limited edition except in the sense that the exact unit numbersets produced will not be repeated.  With 53 Pendolinos running that's hardly an issue though!

 

If we succeed you get a £255 9-car Pendolino (or whatever you choose) and Rapido's £320 model won't be out for at least two years after that; if we fail but come close Rapido may decide to go ahead anyway and their models will be approx £320 (or possibly more, as they've had to pay for tooling) and of course if we fail badly Rapido won't touch it and we are no worse off than we are now.

 

So really, what's to lose by pledging?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Jon Gwinnett]

Hello all,

 

Spent the morning signing and packing guerrilla marketing kits.  Already quite a few takers - but any more please PM me with name and address and they'll go in the post!

 

photo.JPG

 

 

Anyone who's already had flyers will be getting some new ones with the Rapido branding...!

 

Also I am still on the lookout for volunteers to help us at Warley - got lots and lots of posters, leaflets and flyers - we just need people to hand them out, place them on tables in catering section etc.  And this time I will try to remember the Blu-tack for sticking up posters after the fiasco at TINGS!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Ben,

 

Appreciate you'll be busy with Warley, but any chance you can send me some marketing stuff (leaflets) before next Weekend's Falkirk show? Be delighted to try and encourage folk up here. Let me know and I'll PM an address

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Jon

 

I think we already have a volunteer for Falkirk (through DEMU's Scottish area group).

 

Thanks, Mike

[Jon Gwinnett]

I'm probably sharing a stand, or on the one next door, so that's cool!

I'll continue to tweet and share elsewhere anyway.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Jon,

 

PM me your address - I'll send some anyway. We have plenty!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[alibuchan]

20% done

 

Hopefully now that hurdle is out of the way but still a long way to go let's keep pushing it!

 

Alistair

[acko22]

That's a brill start for the first 36 hours!

 

I want to know what the surprise is off virgin for the people who pledge at Warley! Sadly I wont be one of them as I cant get there, bloody work always in the way!

 

With regards the loco numbers and names when will you be looking at them?

Only reason I ask is well after seeing it today 390103 carries "VIRGIN HERO" and the british legion poppies and well considering it is 100 years since the outbreak of WW1 and well the final British troops have left Helmand Province after 8 years of combat operations it would be an apt on to have on the list!

Edited November 21, 2014 by acko22

[Revolution Mike]

Set numbers we will look at if we reach the funding target (we can't do it before then as we want to give everyone who pledges a chance to vote on their preferred set numbers).

 

Cheers, Mike

[Karhedron]

Virgin Hero was only named in 2010 which might restrict it somewhat. I am all for commemorating the brave men and women of our armed forces but I am not sure if this is a goo option in this case.

[alibuchan]

I don't think that would be an issue, Matt.

 

If I were given the chance, that would be one of the ones that I would have.

 

At the end of the day if you are going to order the 11 coach pendo then there definitely is not much of an problem!

 

Alistair

[ash39]

What happens if sufficient people vote for one of the 390's with non-standard livery?

 

I'm not 100% familiar with them, but as above there's 390103 with its poppy, the one with Alstom branding, X-men (I guess licencing would prevent this one). Also Virgin twitter posted one which has been treated to a Mo for Movember!  Are these something Rapido would look at, or is it strictly going to be plain Virgin livery with running numbers the only variable?

 

It's a valid question I feel, as people may be more tempted to go for two sets in this case, and it may push the project over the line. As expected, the initial surge of people who were probably waiting to pledge has now subsided, but it's still a promising start, and I suspect a lot of those early pledgers may go for another set to make up the numbers if we get somewhere in the 60-80% area. 

[acko22]

I think the none standard liveries would be an issue as well some of the liveries were temp ones so would be very specific time wise,

 

A get out for the issue of the poppies applied to 390103 which were applied last year and possibly coming off the end of this year would be to source the poppy details as transfers from else where such as railtec or fox transfers should the kickstart work out!

 

Then you could have 390003 / 390103 named as in 2010 then get the transfers if you wanted.

If there was licensing issues I know the legion will happily let it be done for a donation as I have plenty of experience working with them been a soldier myself!

[Revolution Ben]

Hi all,

 

Any of the liveries are possible, though I think the cost of licensing fees would preclude any of those that feature film tie-ins.

 

As far as I am aware Rapido have no problems with which ones are done; at the end the ten selected will be those voted for by the backers democratically. 

 

I haven't thought too much about this yet, as I want it to be a fun thing for the baby pendo community if we reach our target.  The simplest solution would be to have a one pledge-one vote system and then we can probably create some kind of poll  on the ngaugependolino.com website to select the ten most popular liveries.

 

And I guess if the vehicle you voted for doesn't make the cut we'll just ask you to choose from the 10 that did!  If we get, say, 120 people wanting 390001 and only 80 people wanting 390002 then that will be fine.  We won't have to assign exactly 100 of each number.  The only eventuality in which I can see a glitch is if the top 5 get, say, 150 votes each and the next ranking 5 only get 50 votes between them!

 

But I hope that is something I have to worry about next year as it means we must have reached the target!

 

It's slowed up a little, not surprisingly, but the pledging is still at a steady pace.  Over 45k funding now!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Mike]

I looked at doing a limited edition (of say 75 or 100?) for the Poppy one at a slightly higher price, but making a donation to the Royal British Legion.

 

We would need permission from the Royal British Legion to use the poppy as it is a trademark and technically you can not use Kickstarter to raise funds for charity.

 

I think there is a way round the Kickstarter issue if we are careful how it is advertised.

 

If there is sufficient interest then please let us know and we can get onto the RBL as soon as possible to see if it is a runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Jon Gwinnett]

I would probably (need to think how I would fund it!) commit for second set if I knew it would be the poppy one. As a distinctly "rule 1" purchase anyway, the topicality (especially if delivery is 2016), means I would be very very tempted.

[roundhouse]

I could also be tempted to add another one if it were a special liveried one.

[johnshutts]

Hi Ben & Mike,

 

I know Virgin have been very supportive so just a thought - would they be prepared to put some flyers in the shops of the real Pendalinos. I'm sure there will be at least some people not interested in modelling that would want a scaled down version.

 

Appreciate its a much higher price but I remember when I used to catch the W&S train from Telford, the guys in the shop telling me how many of their customers with no other interest in model railways were buying up their Dapol special edition 67s. Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that...

 

Look forward to catching up at Warley tomorrow - are the Virgin goodies available to those that have already pledged ;-)

 

John

[roundhouse]

Ben and Mike have been doing a great job going round the show at the NEC today with leaflets so here's hoping that when victors get home they remember to pledge on Kickstarter.

 

Now all they need to do is dress up as Darth Vader and a Storm Trooper to go handing out the leaflets in Comic Com tomorrow!!!

[alibuchan]

Well done those at Warley.

 

36 quid off 25%. That's very very good for 4 days in to to the project.

 

Let's have another good day tomorrow and give it as much of a push as we can.

 

Alistair

[jpendle]

Hi Ben and Mike

It may be we're missing a trick here. I saw on the Yahoo N Gauge group that people aren't really aware that they can pledge as little as 1 pound, just to provide support. If every member of this forum pledged 1 pound that would be an extra 24000!!

I think we need to spread the word that everyone can make a small contribution.

 

John P

[TomE]

Great to have a chat with Ben at Warley. I genuinely hope the enthusiasm for this project pays off because both Ben and Mike deserve it from the effort put in so far. 

 

I sneaked a few leaflets into the 2mm FS area yesterday on the premise that if someone wanted to finescale a full 11 coach set it would be a big boost for association wheelset sales! 

 

Tom. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by TomE

[MrSimon]

I think I just pledged! Hurrah! One question though - will having a powered car at both ends affect the running at all; on corners etc?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Zunnan]

I enjoyed an all too brief chat with Ben today while Jason was busy inflicting his Canadian oil burner on Bournville (beautiful loco by the way ), I have experienced Jasons H0 products in the past, and the N scale model he was tinkering with was every bit as impressive as its larger scale stablemates. You'll get more than your moneys worth with the Pendolino if it green lights. I wish you every success to the point that I'm seriously considering pledging even though I don't particularly want a Pendo, but what it could lead to in the future is exciting if Kickstarter funded projects can prove successful. I meant what I said too, if this does well and eventually lead to an N Gauge slam door AC EMU in the future through the same source I'll string up knitting through Bournville and run it as a Cross City layout before the 323s took over!

[Jon Gwinnett]

Great to see the project has reached 25% tonight. Now the tough business of keeping the momentum going begins, good luck everyone!

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Wow - what a weekend.  I've had to drive to and from Warley both days, and spent all day (pretty much!)) talking my head off so haven't really had time to catch up online until now, so lots to get through.

 

When I checked just now pledging at just under 53k so we are well past the 25% mark.... now we need to keep up momentum to our deadline on January 18th at 2200.

 

Please bear with me if you've heard some of this before - especially yesterday or today at the NEC....

 

First off: Meet the team. Left to right:  Self, Jason Shron (MD Rapido), Bill Schneider (Rapido) Kit Spackman aka Mr Tilt (designer, APT-E tilt system), Mike Hale.   Jason wore his bright jacket and baseball cap pretty much the entire show, and he and Bill were easy to spot!

 

 

Kit Spackman is not just a real rail engineer, but also a modeller too.  And while admiring Rapido's 4mm APT-E he happened to mention that in 1978, using a Ministrix chassis and home-brew vac-forming, he built a 2mm version.  Which, of course, he happened to have with him...  (It's unfinished, which of course gives great comfort to the rest of us with unfinished kits on the workbench!)

 

 

During the show the internet was *adequate* and we were able to sign up a few pledgers...Mike B taking the plunge here shortly before we crept over 50k.  I make it 10k added in two days, which isn't too bad...

 

 

Apart from all the amazingly positive support from those who came to chat to us, we must thank layout operators who not only had our flyers on show, but were kind enough not to have us thrown out when we pestered those admiring the layouts to come and pledge...

 

Here flyers on Banbury, by Ian (Roundhouse) which won best N-gauge layout in show:

 

 

And here on Dave Searle's Hinksey Yard, which just gets better every time I see it (that's twice now):

 

 

And finally, as an indication of the quality of final product we can expect from our Pendo Rapido, this is their GMD-1 a Canadian loco... the first production models are arriving shortly.  As Zunnan pointed out, we tested it on his "Bournville" layout and it runs incredibly smoothly and creeps happily along... here it is with exploded parts diagram. 

 

 

So where are we now?

 

Both Mike and I were thrilled by the fantasically positive response.  I had a fair few Rule 1 modellers tell me they'd be pledging: one an O-gauge pre-grouping modeller whose only other modern train is the Kato Eurostar he bought when it was first launched in 1994, while several others said they are setting aside their usual antipathy for modern trains because they want to help N-Gauge get that first Kickstarter going.

 

We had one man tell us that with Farish Desiros and Voyagers he would have all he needed to build that WCML layout of his dreams, while a few people admitted they couldn't bring themselves to order a complete model but would still pledge a few quid to help us on our way.  One woman offered to pledge for her husband as she thought the whole thing was such a great idea!

 

But....

 

What I did realise was just how many potential backers don't go on forums, or don't read magazines that closely.  Mike and I handed out literally hundreds of leaflets this weekend (apologies to those we accosted you more that once!) but we missed hundreds, if not thousands, more.

 

If people choose not to pledge then of course that is their perogative and so be it.

 

But I would hate would-be backers to find out the day after the pledging period ends - so I would urge anyone who supports us to continue to bang the drum, tell your local club members, or model shop, or any train collector friends (even if they're not N, or OHLE, or whatever) about the project and let's see if we can get over the line...

 

Before this weekend I'd have put our chances at 50-50. Now I am becoming increasingly optimistic but as others have said, there is a long way to go.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ben A