garethashenden Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 Humph. I'll see what I can do, but I'm saving most of them for articles. D That's fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2016 I've also built one of the Bill Bedford D32 vans - as said it goes together very nicely. Gareth, may I ask how much weight you added? It seems to me that there ought to be an optimum weight for the springing but not much guidance given, unless I've missed something on the Mousa website? Some splendid pre-group wagons here - dare I start putting up my own efforts? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 I've also built one of the Bill Bedford D32 vans - as said it goes together very nicely. Gareth, may I ask how much weight you added? It seems to me that there ought to be an optimum weight for the springing but not much guidance given, unless I've missed something on the Mousa website? Some splendid pre-group wagons here - dare I start putting up my own efforts? The Scalefour Society recommends 25g per axle. I think mine ended up closer to 60g than to 50g, but I can't remember. Just a bit of roofing lead held in place with superglue. I would heartily recommend starting a thread of your own. I really like having the record of what I've done, and the comments for everyone else is good too. There can never be too many threads on pre-grouping wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Well, you can't really claim to model the North London without having a Park Tank. So it's time I built one. I got a complete kit from Branchlines at Scaleforum in September. This includes the Gem white metal body kit, the Branclines etched chassis kit, a detailling kit, a motor, gearbox, and a few other bits, screws, wire et cetera. I got P4 wheels from Alan Gibson. I tried to start this three weeks ago, and immediately broke my last piecing saw blade. I've since acquired an assortment of blades that should last me quite some time, but it delayed proceedings. I started by making a chassis jig. I started with a scrap of 3/4" plywood. I drew a line square to the end and positioned the top of the chassis on this. I fitted the tophat bearings and taped the frame to the wood. Next, I drilled three holes vertically into the plywood using the bearings as a guide. Once I cleaned everything up I inserted the London Road Models' alignment axles into the holes. I used these to locate the correct position of the hornblocks. By working with one hornblock at a time, the other two and a bit of tape keep things aligned. Here is the front axle hornblock on the right hand frame. The guide is out of position a bit but it should show how it works. I used High Level's hornblocks and CSB tags. Here the two frames are finished with CSB wire added. I used the jig to assemble the chassis as well. I attached the spacers to one side, removed it from the jig, put the other frame on the jig, and lowered the first frame on top. This way I could solder against the wood, rather than in the air. Here is the chassis under the cast footplate, checking for fit. The chassis jig is single purpose, it will only work for Park tanks (or something with the same axle spacing) but I think that's ok. The offcut of plywood was cheap enough that I can make a new jig for each class as needed. The most important thing is to dill the holes vertically. If they're not vertical, it may work fine for the individual sides, but it won't work for putting the two sides together. So use a drill press. Edited July 1, 2017 by garethashenden 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Well, you can't really claim to model the North London without having a Park Tank. So it's time I built one. I got a complete kit from Branchlines at Scaleforum in September. This includes the Gem white metal body kit, the Branclines etched chassis kit, a detailling kit, a motor, gearbox, and a few other bits, screws, wire et cetera. I got P4 wheels from Alan Gibson. I tried to start this three weeks ago, and immediately broke my last piecing saw blade. I've since acquired an assortment of blades that should last me quite some time, but it delayed proceedings. I started by making a chassis jig. I started with a scrap of 3/4" plywood. I drew a line square to the end and positioned the top of the chassis on this. I fitted the tophat bearings and taped the frame to the wood. Next, I drilled three holes vertically into the plywood using the bearings as a guide. Once I cleaned everything up I inserted the London Road Models' alignment axles into the holes. I used these to locate the correct position of the hornblocks. By working with one hornblock at a time, the other two and a bit of tape keep things aligned. Here is the front axle hornblock on the right hand frame. The guide is out of position a bit but it should show how it works. I used High Level's hornblocks and CSB tags. Here the two frames are finished with CSB wire added. I used the jig to assemble the chassis as well. I attached the spacers to one side, removed it from the jig, put the other frame on the jig, and lowered the first frame on top. This way I could solder against the wood, rather than in the air. Here is the chassis under the cast footplate, checking for fit. The chassis jig is single purpose, it will only work for Park tanks (or something with the same axle spacing) but I think that's ok. The offcut of plywood was cheap enough that I can make a new jig for each class as needed. The most important thing is to dill the holes vertically. If they're not vertical, it may work fine for the individual sides, but it won't work for putting the two sides together. So use a drill press. Why not use the coupling rods to set the horn locks D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Why not use the coupling rods to set the horn locks D Its very fiddly with LRM axlejigs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Why not use the coupling rods to set the horn locks D I don't have six hands. I've always had trouble with things moving at the last second. This way everything is held much more firmly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2016 The Scalefour Society recommends 25g per axle. I think mine ended up closer to 60g than to 50g, but I can't remember. Just a bit of roofing lead held in place with superglue. I would heartily recommend starting a thread of your own. I really like having the record of what I've done, and the comments for everyone else is good too. There can never be too many threads on pre-grouping wagons. Thanks for the reply - I need more weight! And I have followed your advice... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I've taken a brief detour back to N scale and a project I started 6 years ago. Recently I've stripped off the paint and started over. Boston & Maine NW2: Edited July 1, 2017 by garethashenden 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I spent a few minutes on Sunday weathering a couple wagons. I used Winsor & Newton's water mixable oil paints. It's a very strange concept, and I have no idea how they work, but I like them. There's a really long working time, but they still clean up with water, rather than turpentine. Edited July 1, 2017 by garethashenden 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) So here's a problem I'd like some advice on. I've gotten back to the goods tank and I've been working on the body a little bit. Mostly I've been dry fitting parts and cleaning up the castings. However, there seems to be a problem with the part that forms the top of the tanks and boiler. The boiler has a different curvature to the rest of the boiler on the model, it's quite a bit shallower. I tracked down a picture of the prototype from above, and it's a noticeable difference. What is the best way to fix this? Here's the model: And here's the prototype: Edited July 1, 2017 by garethashenden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Maybe it can be replaced with a tube of correct size? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Maybe it can be replaced with a tube of correct size? I was thinking of rolling a whole new boiler or using tube, but I wanted to see if anyone had a better idea first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2016 I have a similar problem with a W/M kit of a Caledonian 0-4-4. My plan was to make both tank fronts and the tank brace in one piece of 10 thou, much as that piece is in the kit you're building, and then to split the boiler in two fore and aft of that piece of 10 thou. This would mean that the tank brace had strength, and the prototypical thickness, and was easy to align, and that the boiler had the correct diameter and curvature. You could even do the fine shaping on the brace once the two parts of the boiler were soldered to it. The difficulty would be aligning everything, but you're clearly good with jigs, so it shouldn't be a problem. The problem for me would then be the one I always have with W/M kits: I'd start thinking the rest of the model looked crude compared to the fineness of the 10 thou brace and would end up doing the whole loco in brass, just using the W/M boiler fittings with the rest of the parts serving as patterns.... That would be especially tempting in this case as you'll have to bond the new boiler to the W/M smokebox and W/M tank tops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I have a similar problem with a W/M kit of a Caledonian 0-4-4. My plan was to make both tank fronts and the tank brace in one piece of 10 thou, much as that piece is in the kit you're building, and then to split the boiler in two fore and aft of that piece of 10 thou. This would mean that the tank brace had strength, and the prototypical thickness, and was easy to align, and that the boiler had the correct diameter and curvature. You could even do the fine shaping on the brace once the two parts of the boiler were soldered to it. The difficulty would be aligning everything, but you're clearly good with jigs, so it shouldn't be a problem. The problem for me would then be the one I always have with W/M kits: I'd start thinking the rest of the model looked crude compared to the fineness of the 10 thou brace and would end up doing the whole loco in brass, just using the W/M boiler fittings with the rest of the parts serving as patterns.... That would be especially tempting in this case as you'll have to bond the new boiler to the W/M smokebox and W/M tank tops. It seems to me from the photograph that the boiler top aft of the tank brace is a cosmetic cover with a shallower radius-I may be wrong, but with the brace in position, and the rest of the components in place when the model is complete, who is to know? Daddyman's thoughts on this are similar to mine-the brace is too thick, and fabricating fronts and brace from brass or n/s would be an improvement-I would thin the tank fronts to set the position of the brace. Also, the boiler would be better off as brass tube, and a brass rivetted wrapper (Or even rivetted paper) would be a huge improvement on the smokebox. As for the soldering required, I tin brass or n/s with Carr's 188 solder, tin the whitemetal with Carr's 70 solder, and then secure together with Carr's 70. Believe me, far easier than yecchy glue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I was thinking of rolling a whole new boiler or using tube, but I wanted to see if anyone had a better idea first. Is it possible to check whether the exposed front boiler section is the correct outside diameter? It strikes me that, if the cast boiler top cladding between the tanks has the correct curvature, then it's the exposed front section between the smokebox and the tank fronts which may need resetting or replacement to preserve the illusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Do you have a copy of the 'North London Railway - Pictorial Record', published by the NRM. My copy is marked on the back as £3.50. Plenty on http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/0112902731/ at a reasonable price. Why, there's a GA cross section along the length of the engine and 3 cross sections too. Pages 27 & 28. They will resolve any measurement queries. The diameter over the lagging to the boiler, between the tanks and the smokebox, is 4ft 5 and 5/8 inches. The extra diameter for the smokebox appears to be somewhere around 2 and 3/4 inches, but might be 7/8ths. The stay to the tanks is just a flat section as it goes over the center of the boiler, however the top of the boiler behind the stay towards the cabin has an extra layer of sheeting and is not in horizontal line with the top of the boiler in front of the tanks. Get the book if you don't already have it, it's very cost effective. Edited September 20, 2016 by Penlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Do you have a copy of the 'North London Railway - Pictorial Record', published by the NRM. My copy is marked on the back as £3.50. Plenty on http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/0112902731/ at a reasonable price. Why, there's a GA cross section along the length of the engine and 3 cross sections too. Pages 27 & 28. They will resolve any measurement queries. The diameter over the lagging to the boiler, between the tanks and the smokebox, is 4ft 5 and 5/8 inches. The extra diameter for the smokebox appears to be somewhere around 2 and 3/4 inches, but might be 7/8ths. The stay to the tanks is just a flat section as it goes over the center of the boiler, however the top of the boiler behind the stay towards the cabin has an extra layer of sheeting and is not in horizontal line with the top of the boiler in front of the tanks. Get the book if you don't already have it, it's very cost effective. I've had that book for years and those drawing were one of the things that lead me to thinking something was wrong. The boiler between the tanks has, as you say, an extra layer of lagging. The casting in the kit is of a shape that looks as if it has one layer fewer than on the exposed front section of the boiler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Is it possible to check whether the exposed front boiler section is the correct outside diameter? It strikes me that, if the cast boiler top cladding between the tanks has the correct curvature, then it's the exposed front section between the smokebox and the tank fronts which may need resetting or replacement to preserve the illusion. The front section is slightly out of round, but on average the correct size. It should be 17.875mm, I'm getting between 17.58 and 18.15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2016 Ah, then this is the same as the Caledonian tank: the area aft of the brace is simply a curved piece of metal stretching from tank to tank, not following the boiler down below the level of the tanks (such that the boiler itself is naked between the tanks, with no cladding - but presumably with lagging), possibly not even attached to the boiler at all, but riveted to the tanks, so that the whole thing acts as one long tank brace. Looking more closely at the photos, this does seem to be the case with the boiler in question here: while the front section of the boiler is below the vertical tank brace, the rear part seems to be at the same height (not the case with the Caley tank). You need a rear 3/4 view from above to see if the tank brace is visible over the section of the boiler aft of it - I hope that makes sense! (Still searching for such a view of a Caley tank after all these years...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Ah, then this is the same as the Caledonian tank: the area aft of the brace is simply a curved piece of metal stretching from tank to tank, not following the boiler down below the level of the tanks (such that the boiler itself is naked between the tanks, with no cladding - but presumably with lagging), possibly not even attached to the boiler at all, but riveted to the tanks, so that the whole thing acts as one long tank brace. Looking more closely at the photos, this does seem to be the case with the boiler in question here: while the front section of the boiler is below the vertical tank brace, the rear part seems to be at the same height (not the case with the Caley tank). You need a rear 3/4 view from above to see if the tank brace is visible over the section of the boiler aft of it - I hope that makes sense! (Still searching for such a view of a Caley tank after all these years...) Here's the best I could find quickly, the brace is proud of all of the tank. http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Locomotives/Locomotives-not-currently-in-s/27505/i-3PDjX9s/X2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) This one certainly throws the cat amongst the pigeons.. http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Locomotives/Locomotives-not-currently-in-s/27505/i-DsX85FX/X2 The front and back of the boiler look almost of identical diameter, the diameter of the smokebox looks a lot more than the GA's showing. Edited September 20, 2016 by Penlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 One of the things I'm minded of, is that not everything can be visually scaled down, sometimes we, perhaps, need to 'adjust' something to meet our pre-conceptions of what something appears to look like.In this instance on the model in post #136, the difference between the lagged boiler and the smokebox diameters needs some adjustment. But that is only my opinion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 This one certainly throws the cat amongst the pigeons.. http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Locomotives/Locomotives-not-currently-in-s/27505/i-DsX85FX/X2 The front and back of the boiler look almost of identical diameter, the diameter of the smokebox looks a lot more than the GA's showing. The rear pair of driving wheels are different from the others! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted September 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2016 A built-up one here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2085-horsted-keynes-east-grinstead-oo/page-8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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