RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 It'll be a shame to loose the moody shadows on the fell. Could you not ditch the florrlies and put in LED spots instead? I've discovered OSRAM GU10 LED bulbs. 5W ones come in a warm white colour (24ooK), and the quality of the light is amazing. I've been running Megaman compact Florrlies in my GU10's which I though gave a really good colour rendition, well they have nothing on these OSRAM ones. The cheapest place to get them is Tescos as well! You can get GU10 flush fittings that hinge so you can direct them where you want (I got mine as a kit with Megaman bulbs from CPC-farnell). They will be a darn sight cheaper to run than the Florries and the light levels will be better, and you can arrange them on separate circuits so that you can flood the room with light for working, and then turn them off to get the moody shadows on the fell and over the station (actually I don't think I'd have a lamp on over the top of the station, have it about 6 feet to one side (not behind where you stand though) and you will get some lovely realistic shadows. Nows the time to think about this important aspect! Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for the info, Andy. I found the general level of illumination for KL unsatisfactory - despite the fact that I had 16 x 50W spots in there. I think I'll mount 4 x daylight fluorescents in the new bunker, individually switchable. You're right about the dramatic effect that shadows have on the Fell. It'd be a shame to lose them. So I'll probably fit some spots on the wall at opposite ends of the Fell for "highlighting". Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Some more photos to show this morning's progress. Less than a day into the conversion and things are moving along nicely! The third frame in place - these "main" frames are designed to hold the 100mm insulation. They are fixed in place with their front faces 120mm from the back wall - the reason will become clearer after a bit more work! The first piece of 100mm insulation in place: The first frame almost filled with its "base" insulation: Coffee, more fun - more pics later! Jeff 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If it were me... I think, what I would do is run probably 24 boxes spread across the celing, wired down to a space where one could put a matching # of boxes. Then, figure out what I want in the way of lighting after I had finalized the layout design, and put in switches to gang similar lights. (I'd also probably run 2 sets of wires to each box, one for low voltage, one for 110V (220V) lights) The difference between full size Florscent lights and LED's is not yet decisive, and there is something else to consider, that is during the winter, the lights being a heat source when you want one...I'd more look and see what lighting is going to produce the best effect for the space, rather than what lighting is going to be cheapest. (for us, hydro is about 5 p/kWh ) James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Update: I've finished for the night - I need to re-stock with screws! First pic: Frames stuffed with the 100mm insulation board... 4 x 2 lengths added in front to provide a frame for another 50mm of insulation board... I started at noon yesterday. About a quarter of the walls are ready for a front ply covering, some of which will go on tomorrow. Jeff 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cracking progress Jeff. Lighting is such a personal issue especially when you require different types of lighting for working on the layout, building kits and creating the atmosphere when photographed. I'm looking forward to the suggestions put forward by others and the final solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 I see what you did there... Cunning use of extra insulation to get rid of those buttresses... More is probably best with the lighting side of things.... Andy G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 Good to see the progress. It's not clear from the pics, but have you left voids at the corners? If so it might be worth using some expanding foam to seal them. But don't use the aggressive type, it'll shift the frames off the walls! Cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Good to see the progress. It's not clear from the pics, but have you left voids at the corners? If so it might be worth using some expanding foam to seal them. But don't use the aggressive type, it'll shift the frames off the walls! Cheers Dave Hi Dave. You're correct - it's not clear from the photos. However, there are no voids. If you look at the last photo in post # 180. the frame on the right wall is fixed onto the far wall. The frame on the far wall then sits up against that frame on its right side - and, in fact, is screwed into it. I didn't want to stop work today, but I may as well spread the enjoyment out. I've been planning this for months!! Jeff 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Cracking progress Jeff. Lighting is such a personal issue especially when you require different types of lighting for working on the layout, building kits and creating the atmosphere when photographed. I'm looking forward to the suggestions put forward by others and the final solution. I agree with you, Duncan. Unfortunately, I think I got the lighting on KL totally wrong. There's a place for spots - or emphasis lighting - but I think the layout room needs to be better lit than was the case with KL. It'll be a mix of fluorescent and spot lighting in the end. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Love the rain forest depletion shots Jeff! Progress eh! Regarding the lighting I simply used the old fluorescents from the old den and I can't see a problem, perhaps others can and are being polite or I'm just easy pleased, I don't know to be sure but all I can say is they illuminate the room well for both modelling and photography in my view. I will agree with the cost of running them as being on the high side though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2015 Love the rain forest depletion shots Jeff! Progress eh! Regarding the lighting I simply used the old fluorescents from the old den and I can't see a problem, perhaps others can and are being polite or I'm just easy pleased, I don't know to be sure but all I can say is they illuminate the room well for both modelling and photography in my view. I will agree with the cost of running them as being on the high side though. Evening Mike. Like you, I'm not concerned about the running cost of the lighting. As long as it does its job, I'm happy. I hardly want to economise by lighting the room with one candle - and then being unable to see anything! The 4 x 2 was cheap treated carcassing. Surprisingly good quality given that PSE was 4 times the price. Perfectly adequate for framing and unlikely to fall down until the next nuclear war! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donington Road Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The 4 x 2 was cheap treated carcassing. Surprisingly good quality given that PSE was 4 times the price. Perfectly adequate for framing and unlikely to fall down until the next nuclear war! There's going to be a lot of jittery BRM modellers out there, who having seen your previous incarnation, were counting on their survival by taking refuge in your new non-destructive bunker in the event of nuclear war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Another thought on the lighting. Go with the tubes and, although expensive to buy, put in LED replacement tubes. They last a great deal lot longer than conventional ones, provide a better quality of light and not one of your criteria, cost virtually nothing to run. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SouthernRegionSteam Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 I've had problems in the past with flicker from fluorescent lighting - when viewed through a camera lens anyway. Don't know if this is normal or I was just unlucky! If you have the ability to experiment it would be worth it, but LED replacement tubes sounds interesting to me - never heard of them until now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 On LM, the over staging lighting is provided by LED's, from Lee Valley Tools. (I'd imagine similar are available in the UK) The 24 ft of them are something like 45w or so, or rather less than a pair of T6 (1 1/2"/ 32w) fluorescent tubes. They don't provide that much lighting, really. There are formula which tell you how many Cd of light you "should" have for various tasks, and then you get into staging lighting, which should be on a different system than the "working" lighting, quite probably. My figuring is that, if I was starting again, I would put a LOT more boxes in the overhead, with the wire run. It wouldn't be that hard to do in my addition, as the celing is dry-walled but not taped & mudded, so it all could be lifted down). The current setup has 8x2x32w (512w) of fluorescent tubes, and 8x50 (400w) of GU10 halogen lights. That room is 17x24, or 415 sq ft, and is used for the club layout, or play space for the kids, and my lego for building. That lighting doesn't help Long Marton at all, as it is in a different room. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jeff, Looking really good so far - with that much insulation, the amount of money saved on heating will pay for the lighting! Kind regards, Jock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jeff, if you want to spread out the "fun", there's a Garage in Huddersfield, that could really do with some proper insulation framing.... Lee 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't know why we're all raving about Jeff's KL2 insulation???????????? WE are all getting LESS KL2 to look at!!!!!!!!!!!! Aren't we?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't know why we're all raving about Jeff's KL2 insulation???????????? WE are all getting LESS KL2 to look at!!!!!!!!!!!! Aren't we?! I think I'm just really jealous of both his massive builders merchants' delivery and the vast amount of free time he's got to put the work in Hmm, I've got a spare hour, shall I do some modelling or just have a quick na.....zzzzzzzz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't know why we're all raving about Jeff's KL2 insulation???????????? WE are all getting LESS KL2 to look at!!!!!!!!!!!! Aren't we?! Umm - not quite sure how that follows... Causality - cause and effect.... Without the insulation the bunker is uninhabitable.... So no layout work can be done.... So NO KL2 at all. So no insulation = No KL2 Must admit, the insulation is nothing to rave about. I'm only posting it in this detail because a number of people have asked me to. NOW - if you DON'T want to see what's going on, let me know..... Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 On the subject of which, here are 3 pics showing today's efforts. 6 hours work and I'm only just about to fit the third section of ply. Jeff 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SouthernRegionSteam Posted January 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2015 I for one am enjoying seeing such construction photos, Jeff. I know a lot of us have yet to carry out such work, and so it is interesting to see the results before we actually do it ourselves. Apologies if I missed it, but are you planning on doing a similar thing to the ceiling? (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere you were, so I'll probably find the answer shortly...) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 I for one am enjoying seeing such construction photos, Jeff. I know a lot of us have yet to carry out such work, and so it is interesting to see the results before we actually do it ourselves. Apologies if I missed it, but are you planning on doing a similar thing to the ceiling? (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere you were, so I'll probably find the answer shortly...) Thanks, Jam. If you have a look at KL, page 1, post # 7 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53448-kirkby-luneside-kl2-ponderings/page-1), you'll see that I put insulation board into the ceiling - then covered it with plasterboard. This time I'll put the insulation board in, and some fibre roll on top of that. But the ceiling will be 9mm ply. Much easier to handle (and nowhere near as heavy as plasterboard!) Jeff 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Umm - not quite sure how that follows... Causality - cause and effect.... Without the insulation the bunker is uninhabitable.... So no layout work can be done.... So NO KL2 at all. So no insulation = No KL2 Must admit, the insulation is nothing to rave about. I'm only posting it in this detail because a number of people have asked me to. NOW - if you DON'T want to see what's going on, let me know..... Jeff I think Mike is simply suggesting that the room is going to be slightly smaller all round by the thickness of the insulation, therefore leaving slightly less room to be taken up by the layout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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