RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think Mike is simply suggesting that the room is going to be slightly smaller all round by the thickness of the insulation, therefore leaving slightly less room to be taken up by the layout? I think you've hit the nail on the head! Most of the insulation is between the buttresses, so all the extra rubbish I've put in has narrowed the available space by 12cm, which isn't too bad. At least I'll be warm! Jeff 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 Umm - not quite sure how that follows... Causality - cause and effect.... Without the insulation the bunker is uninhabitable.... So no layout work can be done.... So NO KL2 at all. So no insulation = No KL2 Must admit, the insulation is nothing to rave about. I'm only posting it in this detail because a number of people have asked me to. NOW - if you DON'T want to see what's going on, let me know..... Jeff Hi Jeff If you do so I am leaving MSIweb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think Mike is simply suggesting that the room is going to be slightly smaller all round by the thickness of the insulation, therefore leaving slightly less room to be taken up by the layout? Spot-on............it was lost in internet translation it seems, hope I didn't offend! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi Jeff Good to see KL2 has begun. I for one asked to see you progress on the garage conversion, so please keep the pics coming. Difficult to see from the latest pics, but have you insulated up to the depth of the horizontal "plank" additions and then boarded directly on top, ie have you also insulated over the breeze block butresses, or is there an air gap between the insulation and the plyboard with no insulation over said breeze blocks ? Thanks Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi Jeff, coming on well mate, lots to do, but think about the end Goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi Jeff Good to see KL2 has begun. I for one asked to see you progress on the garage conversion, so please keep the pics coming. Difficult to see from the latest pics, but have you insulated up to the depth of the horizontal "plank" additions and then boarded directly on top, ie have you also insulated over the breeze block butresses, or is there an air gap between the insulation and the plyboard with no insulation over said breeze blocks ? Thanks Scott Evening Scott. If you have a look at the third photo in post # 180 you'll see what I've done. In that photo I'd only done part of the job, but you'll see that the top section of breeze block has insulation across it. The block buttresses have a 50mm covering, with ply on top. All the rest has the base 100mm (in the frames) and the 50mm in between the 4 x 2 joists. Hope that clears things up. If anybody else spots anything that's not clear, please let me know. This is my method of doing things - it may not be the best and it's OTT, but - well, the Lunesters know I'm a bit crazy when it comes to this kind of thing!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 Spot-on............it was lost in internet translation it seems, hope I didn't offend! Offend? Mike, you MUST be joking! After 3 years of banter and exchanges of info etc you're one of a number of people whose opinion/comments I value and I'd never be offended. I just wasn't sure what you meant and my interpretation was incorrect. I stand corrected! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hi Jeff, coming on well mate, lots to do, but think about the end Goal. Cheers Andy. To be honest, I'm knackered! All the twisting, lifting, screwing, hammering etc.... I've discovered muscles I never knew I had (now that's a comment open to misinterpretation!!) And today was a bit frustrating and I never got anywhere near as far as I'd planned. But it's not a race and I'm enjoying it all, very much. Now here's a thought. I started the KL garage conversion in August 2011 and it was finished in May 2012. 10 months. Even going along serenely I'd be miffed if the bunker isn't ready for layout building by the start of April: 10 weeks. So yes, I'm chuffed. And, as you'll have seen in the PM, so is someone else with both our progress! Jeff 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Aha, I see Jeff. Frame + insulation, extra depth applied and again insulated to the new depth, then ply over the lot. That will keep the cold at bay. Thanks Scott 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2015 Aha, I see Jeff. Frame + insulation, extra depth applied and again insulated to the new depth, then ply over the lot. That will keep the cold at bay. Thanks Scott I did a similar thing in my previous garage, and it seemed to work well. The temperature range pre-insulation was between around - 2 (ish) to + 30C over the course of a year. Summer temps with insulation were a steady(ish) 18C and in the winter, with an oil heater on for 2 hours, it was easy to maintain 18C. Funny thing - on a hot summer's day, a visit into the bunker was a good way to cool down! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 17, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2015 Update.... Nothing visually stirring to report, just more frames. So a couple of pics to show that I AM making some kind of progress. By the end of tomorrow I should have half the walling complete. Jeff 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Good progress in the Bunker young Jeff, Another week ant it will start to look like the Old Place, warm and cosy and ready for the frames to start. and then it will be some boards, cant wait mate. I had a good natter with Jason earlier as wiring the slip was doin me sweed in, but as he rang me it miraculously sorted it self out, so all is now fine and the first Sound Black 5 has run down the main, now a video tomorrow is definitely on the cards. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Good progress in the Bunker young Jeff, Another week ant it will start to look like the Old Place, warm and cosy and ready for the frames to start. and then it will be some boards, cant wait mate. I had a good natter with Jason earlier as wiring the slip was doin me sweed in, but as he rang me it miraculously sorted it self out, so all is now fine and the first Sound Black 5 has run down the main, now a video tomorrow is definitely on the cards. I'm thinking at the rate he's moving now Andy I suspect we could be seeing the first signs of G**SS on the fells by April! Have you got the new Bachmann 40 yet? I broke a promise not to have sound at any cost the other week and bought one. Now I just can't stop playing with it just to hear that lovely EE whistle from the turbo's! Regards Bill 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I'm thinking at the rate he's moving now Andy I suspect we could be seeing the first signs of G**SS on the fells by April! Have you got the new Bachmann 40 yet? I broke a promise not to have sound at any cost the other week and bought one. Now I just can't stop playing with it just to hear that lovely EE whistle from the turbo's! Regards Bill Morning Bill. I actually pre-ordered a sound-fitted and a non-sound from Hattons early in 2013. I cancelled the order, principally because its release coincided with the demise of KL and I was in a bit of a down at the time. I'll definitely acquire a couple of 40s once KL2 is progressing well, with some track down on which to run them. Back to more insulation cutting.... Jeff Edited January 18, 2015 by Physicsman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2015 Another 6 hours in the bunker today. I'll be glad when it's insulated because it was bl**dy cold in there today! A couple of pics - as I work my way round the walls. The second gives a sense of where I'm at. I'll get another 3 sheets of ply fitted tomorrow. Jeff 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Surprised you had time to get cold Jeff, the rate you're moving at! Classy work my friend, Kind regards, Jock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Nice work Jeff, well done mate. Nice and warm in my Potting Shed. hahahha 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Your certainly getting there Jeff. You might want to shut the door and put a heater on tomorrow even if you are working hard. I've just seen the forcast 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2015 Surprised you had time to get cold Jeff, the rate you're moving at! Classy work my friend, Kind regards, Jock. Evening Jock. It doesn't feel like I'm moving fast - but after 4 days I'm nearly half way round the wall. It'll look a bit more complete tomorrow when more ply goes on. Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Nice work Jeff, well done mate. Nice and warm in my Potting Shed. hahahha Your certainly getting there Jeff. You might want to shut the door and put a heater on tomorrow even if you are working hard. I've just seen the forcast I actually have a fan heater on in there. But I'm ditching that tomorrow for my electrically heated oil convector. Not as instant but circulates a greater volume of warm air. Andy, your potting shed even LOOKS warm. Oh well, by the end of next week there should be the start on the ceiling insulation. I keep telling myself that my current work has probably helped to reduce the temperature drop by at least..... 0.5C. Mentally, it makes me feel warmer! Yes, before anybody says it, I AM mental! More tomorrow chaps! Jeff Edited January 18, 2015 by Physicsman 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2015 Nice work Jeff, well done mate. Nice and warm in my Potting Shed. hahahha Hi Andy Tonight was strange, while working in the man shed I was not cold, no hat or fleece, just my gentlemans pullover with buttons, not done up. I had not put the heater on. When coming in there was already ice on the outside of the windies of the conservatory. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Jeff, It is looking warmer already! And very useful to see the technique. One quick question. Am I correct in thinking that as the frame is 120mm that you have a 20mm air gap between brick and insulation? Have you done the same in front of the block butresses? Kind regards, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Morning Neil. Here's a diagram that, I hope, will explain the way the bits are fitted together: The wood thicknesses are 95mm and 45mm. The dashed orange line represents the insulation block. The 100mm insulation is pushed hard-up against the back wall. The 50mm insulation then sits right up against the 100mm. On the buttress, the 50mm sits hard-up against the block. There are no air gaps aside from a few mm between the front of the 50mm and the 9mm ply cover. Jeff Edited January 19, 2015 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2015 For those with an interest in this, and before the question is asked, the frames are screwed into the brick/block/surrounding wood in 7 places: Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks for that Jeff. I tried to solve the equation with one too many unknown variables... the depth of the butress. That's very useful as I intend to insulate my garage this year. I see no point in making up some design when I can copy you as you've done it twice so know what works! I have brick butresses, but other than dealing with the slightly different depth there I shall do exactly the same! It's not just your modelling that inspires and makes your threads such a draw! Kind regards, Neil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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